How to fight NPRs

[captainwolfer (OP)]

How do I fight NPRs? I started a game where I had 2 billion population and 400k tech points to start with, and yet the first NPR I encountered has both stronger particle beams (strength 6 compared to the strength 4 of my ships), and way more ships. They spawned 2 jumps from earth, and they claimed a system 1 jump away from earth, then shot first. I sent my cruisers to go fight them. I had 8 squadrons of 4 24,000 ton beam cruisers, and yet they have at least twice my tonnage in military ships alone. I just sent my beam cruisers to go to their homeworld, and upon entering missile range I have been greeted by approximately 981 size 9 missiles with decoys (and that is just the first volley, I assume). So not only do they outmass me in beam ships, they also have a bunch of missile ships too.

How are you supposed to be able to beat this?

Edit: to be clear, I picked off a few small groups of ships before going to investigate their homeworld, and I was planning to load an earlier save, I just wanted to see what would happen, but wasn't expecting so much firepower

[Garfunkel]

There is no need to rush to invade their homeworld. Depending on your game settings, you can delay their attacks by defending the JP and taking advantage of their jump blindness. At the same time, build more ships, research better tech, build better ships, rinse & repeat.

Also, remember that you can use a diplo ship to improve relations so that the NPR does not start shooting so quickly.

[Ulzgoroth]

This is presumably the 109 9-missile volleys you mentioned in the suggestions thread? I'd be inclined to guess that as box launchers...

[nuclearslurpee]

This is presumably the 109 9-missile volleys you mentioned in the suggestions thread? I'd be inclined to guess that as box launchers...

It sounds like a horde of FACs, since Steve added that capability for NPRs in 2.0, I think.

[Nori]

Oh man that sounds fun. I wish I found NPRs like that in my games...

As others said, I would fortify the jump points to stop any further advancement from them. Consider putting a maintenance space station down nearby.. You can do "mines" which are engineless missiles with active sensors that fire when a ship is detected. Though fast firing beam weapons will work well with the jump shock too.

After fortifying then build up a fleet with lots of good point defense to advance on the homeworld.

Basically, contain, then exterminate...

[captainwolfer (OP)]

This is presumably the 109 9-missile volleys you mentioned in the suggestions thread? I'd be inclined to guess that as box launchers...

It sounds like a horde of FACs, since Steve added that capability for NPRs in 2.0, I think.

Yes, there were 55 FAC, although I think that still means that at least half the salvos came from normal ships, since the salvos size varied between 8 and 9, and I doubt a FAC can carry more than 8 or 9 size 9 missiles at a time.

[Ulzgoroth]

At any rate it definitely couldn't carry 16, so one FAC couldn't account for more than one of the salvos.

[acantoni]

In my previous game (you can read about it in the "Spoler forum") with a standard trans-newtonian start 4 years into the (2029) i activated an NPR which greeted me with a 500+ volley of size 11 missiles. It is now 10 years later and i have abandoned that game and checked in the database.
They had 14x the monstrosity below plus 30+ other ships of smaller tonnage
For comparison my biggest ship (1) was a 20000 cruiser. my all military tonnage was less than a single one of their Strike Cruisers.

Aran Fawddwy II class Strike Cruiser      130,312 tons       2,047 Crew       14,488.3 BP       TCS 2,606    TH 9,300    EM 0
3568 km/s      Armour 7-228       Shields 0-0       HTK 535      Sensors 12/18/0/0      DCR 60-4      PPV 471.9
Maint Life 0.23 Years     MSP 4,169    AFR 2264%    IFR 31.4%    1YR 18,110    5YR 271,649    Max Repair 2993.32 MSP
Magazine 10,919 / 594   
Captain    Control Rating 4   BRG   AUX   ENG   CIC   
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Morale Check Required   

Nuclear Gas-Core Engine  EP310 (30)    Power 9300    Fuel Use 39.76%    Signature 310    Explosion 10%
Fuel Capacity 5,450,000 Litres    Range 18.9 billion km (61 days at full power)

Size 99 Decoy Launcher (6)     Decoy Size: 99    Hangar Reload 497 minutes    MF Reload 82 hours
Size 11 Missile Launcher (30.0% Reduction) (143)     Missile Size: 11    Rate of Fire 3320
Missile Fire Control FC68-R129 (3)     Range 68.4m km    Resolution 129   ECCM-1
Ahti Ship Decoy (6)    Signature: 19800 tons    ECM-1    Size: 99
Lemminkäinen Anti-Ship Missile (992)    Speed: 17,346 km/s    End: 60.8m     Range: 63.3m km    WH: 7    Size: 11    TH: 57/34/17

Active Search Sensor AS72-R129 (1)     GPS 13932     Range 72.6m km    Resolution 129
Active Search Sensor AS31-R20 (1)     GPS 1440     Range 31.8m km    Resolution 20
Thermal Sensor TH2-12 (1)     Sensitivity 12     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  27.4m km
EM Sensor EM3-18 (1)     Sensitivity 18     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  33.5m km

Electronic Warfare Jammers:   Sensor 1    Fire Control 1    Missile 1   

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a Warship for auto-assignment purposes

[nuclearslurpee]

Aran Fawddwy II class Strike Cruiser      130,312 tons

Making NPRs use bigger ships is one of the best things Steve has done for the game. 

[acantoni]

Totally agree!
And also the variation of them is quite interesting... in the same game there was another NPR heavy on beam+shields!

Anyway, i wish there was a setting to be able to "finetune" the NPR generation at system discovery (modified with the difficulty rating) to select how much "Fun!" you want!

1) Be totally unrestricted/random when generating NPR and is fine to create them with 10x + your military tonnage or much weaker
2) Have randomisation but dont go overboard. NPR can be up to twice/half your military tonnage/civilian tonnage/research/etc
3) Keep it "fair" and go +10% -10% maximum

[Ulzgoroth]

That ship seems like a demonstration that 99 is too low a max size for decoy launchers.

[Warer]

How do I fight NPRs? I started a game where I had 2 billion population and 400k tech points to start with, and yet the first NPR I encountered has both stronger particle beams (strength 6 compared to the strength 4 of my ships), and way more ships. They spawned 2 jumps from earth, and they claimed a system 1 jump away from earth, then shot first. I sent my cruisers to go fight them. I had 8 squadrons of 4 24,000 ton beam cruisers, and yet they have at least twice my tonnage in military ships alone. I just sent my beam cruisers to go to their homeworld, and upon entering missile range I have been greeted by approximately 981 size 9 missiles with decoys (and that is just the first volley, I assume). So not only do they outmass me in beam ships, they also have a bunch of missile ships too.

How are you supposed to be able to beat this?

Edit: to be clear, I picked off a few small groups of ships before going to investigate their homeworld, and I was planning to load an earlier save, I just wanted to see what would happen, but wasn't expecting so much firepower

NPRs scale of your starting stats, the difficulty when your making your game determines how big their population is on generation. I think the NPRs that are generated ~at~ game start are always locked to being equivalent to you though and it could be they just rolled a highed starting industry and military, that would be my guess.

[Ultimoos]

It's also interesting how glass cannonish this ship is. It has "long range artillery" written all over it. 130k tons and just 7 layers of armor. 6 decoys that do not even cover entire hull once. Absolutely no PD. No R1 sensors.

[Droll]

It's also interesting how glass cannonish this ship is. It has "long range artillery" written all over it. 130k tons and just 7 layers of armor. 6 decoys that do not even cover entire hull once. Absolutely no PD. No R1 sensors.

It's maintenance profile is pretty awful too and no shields. TBF something this big probably wouldn't be sent out alone and as a missile ship a PD escort might be all it needs to be defended.

[captainwolfer (OP)]

So far I think the AI only makes single purpose ships, just based on what I have seen