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C# Mechanics / Re: Potential Changes to Shipping Lines
« Last post by Jorgen_CAB on Today at 04:49:48 PM »
Consider that civilians just use 50% power reduced engines and keep the higher speeds of those ships. This means less ships built overall as they are more expensive but you will still deliver goods fairly equally in quantity perhaps slightly less. They don't pay for fuel anyway so in some sense the lower powered engines can just result in performance issues later on.

So... restricting civilian companies to 50% power engines would automatically result in less ships built.

In addition to this each company should pay a higher administrative fee the more ships they have. I also think that shorter trips should pay way less dividend for companies in general.
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C# Bug Reports / Re: v2.5.1 Bugs Thread
« Last post by Jeltz on Today at 04:03:34 PM »
Aurora 2.5.1 "vanilla" or not (I usually play with Deep Blue mod), conventional start

Easily reproducible:

- Economics window
- Civilian/Flags tab
- Select the central title row "Installation Type Demanded - Amount - Assigned"
- Press "Edit Demand" button[/li][/list]


a message will be generated: "2.5.1 Function #608: Object reference not set to an instance of an object"

same behaviour if it is selected the empty row below title row

click on OK button: message close and nothing seem wrong but...

.... but after few in game-day I recieved 10 (!) Research Lab without apparently reason (se Event log in attach)

I dont' know if this two things are linked or not, I would tend not to believe it, but it is a quite strange coincidence...

And for me those 10 Reserch Lab are a real mistery...

-J-




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C# Mechanics / Re: Potential Changes to Shipping Lines
« Last post by Pedroig on Today at 03:32:10 PM »
Something ahistorical but should allow the player to have some control over what type of game they want to play.

Have a modifier in the initial game settings which will limit ratio of number and displacement of civilian shipping based upon the player fleet.  Maybe a "max number of civvie shipping lines" as well.

Having a ratio will make an inverse relationship on number of ships and size.  The higher the number of the ships, the less size they will be and vice versa, regardless of the values chosen.  It would be nice to be able to do this on a "per line" basis as an option to replicate large interstellar haulers and intra-system tramp freighters to both exist, though if that isn't doable, having the player choose between taking care of one or the other and the civilians covering the remainder will work.

For an easy example, let's take a "small" force of 100 ships totaling 1,000,000 tons, so if the player chooses 100% number and 100% displacement, the civilian shipping line(s) will default to having 100 ships massing 10,000 each, so a "jack of all, master of none" effect.  A 10%/100% choice would result in 10 ships at 100,000 each, so interstellar transport vibe, whilst a 100%/10% would be a small packet courier fleet of 1,000 ton ships.  This of course is based on averages, and allowing over 100% on either gives more options, but not necessary.

Just seems easier to mechanically tie it into what the player is doing than other mechanical subsytstems.  It will naturally provide a civilian shipping economy which reflects the player's own demands and "actions" in the ship economy and how that would trigger a civilian response.
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C# Mechanics / Re: Potential Changes to Shipping Lines
« Last post by ISN on Today at 03:10:14 PM »
paying by distance travelled in km rather than transits made

This change makes every kind of sense.
Unless the computational cost of the distance calculations is excessive, it seems like a worthwhile idea.

Ships already keep track of the total distance they've traveled, so it shouldn't be too expensive to keep track of the distance on a per-contract basis as well.

If we do end up going with some sort of cap or extra cost for the shipping lines it seems like it would be a good idea to make it toggleable or adjustable as a modifier in the game settings, since it seems people have pretty different preferences regarding their civilian economies.
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C# Mechanics / Re: Potential Changes to Shipping Lines
« Last post by non sequitur on Today at 02:39:07 PM »
Being honest, I like the way the civilian lines work now and like the experience you are describing Steve because it makes the growth of the empire feel organic to me.

That said, could we add some kind of mechanic where if a civilian ship sits idle for too long the line decommissions the ship? In game it can be explained as a company doesn't want to pay for maintenance of a ship that isn't doing anything. So if you want to decrease the number of ships you just mark a bunch of colonies as stable and wait for the ships to disappear.
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C# Mechanics / Re: Potential Changes to Shipping Lines
« Last post by skoormit on Today at 02:31:41 PM »
paying by distance travelled in km rather than transits made

This change makes every kind of sense.
Unless the computational cost of the distance calculations is excessive, it seems like a worthwhile idea.
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C# Mechanics / Re: Potential Changes to Shipping Lines
« Last post by xenoscepter on Today at 02:26:26 PM »
 --- Perhaps give them a sort of fluff base? Like CMCs, they'll spring up on eligible worlds, but would serve as mock "supply bases". Having these tied to player colony sizes, pops, etc and making shipping lines rely on these outside of truly huge ships could give a lot of levers for both you the dev to balance with and you the player to interact with.

 --- Sorry for no effort post on this, I usually turn them off myself. XD
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C# Mechanics / Re: Potential Changes to Shipping Lines
« Last post by Zap0 on Today at 01:55:55 PM »
Instead of reducing the growth rate of shipping lines, I'd impose a cap on their size and number. Be it a soft or hard cap. I've made the experience in long games that civilian shipping can grow to massive proportions and obsolete the player economy with the wealth generated via taxes.

Suggestion: Lines pay a minimal amount of dividends/maintenance until they make up 10% of yearly income, and then the maintenance increases exponentially. Say they give up half their income in maintenance and only pay half their taxes if shipping line income makes up 30% of your yearly income, halving again if it reaches 50% etc.

In this scheme all lines would have the same maintenance rate. I don't really see much point in multiple lines (besides flavor), and have also observed that there ends up being a few massive lines and a lot of tiny ones. So I'd just impose a hard cap on the number of lines per race.

That doesn't solve the issue that planet-moon shipping lines are obscenely profitable. Tying the income to distance traveled sounds good. Perhaps with a small fixed component, say 10% of current income, so that these kinds of lines also don't become worthless. Maybe tie it to travel time instead, including loading and unloading?
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C# Mechanics / Re: Potential Changes to Shipping Lines
« Last post by Xkill on Today at 01:30:43 PM »
Interesting. Changing base carrying capacity of ships seems reckless. I can see it causing problems for the early game, which is already slow. Besides, all it really does is postpone what is already happening. Eventually, the civvies will just build more ships or larger ships and it all comes back again.

The maintenance idea seems good. A nice soft cap on individual potential. If I understood it correctly, it would only affect each line separately and so not cause problems with a growing empire, as new lines can simply pop up over time and fulfill that demand until they too become "decadent" and slow down growth to potentially nothing.

I think it is logical and appropriate that larger empires do things more massively and faster than smaller ones. Especially if compact in territory. It gives a sense of progress and allows the player to more easily marshall additional resources toward other interesting parts of the game. It provides a more or less clear transition between the early-game exploration phase where everything is slow; through the mid-game expansion phase where everything is fast; to the late-game exploitation phase where you can do anything you wish due to having infinite resources.
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C# Mechanics / Re: Potential Changes to Shipping Lines
« Last post by Kaiser on Today at 01:28:49 PM »
I really like how the civilian system currently works, I'm in 100+ years conventional start and I do not have any performance issues due to civilian + love the flavour they add.

That being said, you could add a corruption and waste money variable which increases proportionally with the shipping line size, so that they have less money.
The bigger the ship, the bigger the waste and corruption.
Also the bigger the shipping line, the bigger the corruption.

This simulate the increase number of offices, employees etc.
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