Orbital Ground Command Elements

[xenoscepter (OP)]

Pretty straightforward really, I'd like some way to command from orbit, Starship Troopers style.

 - To that end I propose a system of Ship Components and Ground Forces Modules. The HQ system would function as normal, but when the appropriate components are mounted onto the ship they would allow the HQ to confer it's benefit from orbit. Naturally the ship with the HQ would need to be in orbit in order for the command to function, so no commanding ground forces from outside of STO range. The Ground Forces still need an HQ to benefit from this, as per the usual rules, but in addition to that they need an Orbital Command Module that can be mounted on a Ground Unit from the Ground forces Design Window. This unit then needs to be present in the formation to grant the bonus.

 - Logistics Vehicles function as normal, the shuttles needed are considered accounted for by the mass of the various modules. Which modules confer the benefit is up to the player. In the case that one module is less restrictive than the other, the most restrictive module will be used. So if an HQ is aboard a ship with an Orbital Command Bridge, but is commanding a unit with a Large Orbital Command Module that has formations sub-ordinate to it that are not directly parent to it, those formations will not gain a benefit from the orbital HQ. Likewise if the HQ is aboard a ship with an Orbital Command Centre, but is commanding a unit with only a Standard Orbital Command Module, then the same thing will happen if that formation has sub-ordinates that are not directly parent to it.

 - The most restrictive module is always used as each individually handles the sending and receiving of orders. So logically it would follow that if the ship module can send very complex orders it would not help if the orders cannot be received in a meaningful way. So Orbital Command Centres would not be useful unless you had multiple divisions being linked to it, and those divisions would need a command structure that included the appropriate facilities and equipment to effectively translate those commands into action.

The technologies to unlock these would go something like this:

 - Orbital Command Bridge:
    - Auxiliary Bridge

 - Orbital Command Centre:
    - Orbital Command Bridge

 - Standard Orbital Command Module:
    - Orbital Command Bridge

 - Small Orbital Command Module:
    - Orbital Command Bridge
    - Standard Orbital Command Module

 - Large Orbital Command Module:
    - Orbital Command Bridge
    - Standard Orbital Command Module


Ship Components:

*To function as an Orbital Command the ship must be equipped with at least one Orbital Command Bridge or an Orbital Command Centre and be in Orbit of the appropriate body.

Orbital Command Centre:
*This is considered a Command and Control module and adds +2 to minimum ship rank.
 - Weight: 1,250 Tons
 - Cost: ??
 - Crew Requirements: ??
 - Military or Commercial: Commercial.
 --- This module allows a standard Ground Forces HQ to confer it's bonus to any number of sub-ordinate formations from orbit.

Orbital Command Bridge:
*This is considered a Command and Control module and adds +1 to minimum ship rank.
 - Weight: 250 Tons
 - Cost: ??
 - Crew Requirements: ??
 - Military or Commercial: Commercial.
 --- This module allows a standard Ground Forces HQ to confer it's bonus to any formations are directly parent to it from orbit.

Ground Forces Modules:
*To benefit from Orbital Command a formation must have an HQ and at least one unit with an Orbital Command Module of some type. An Orbital Command Module isn't affected by formation size, but the formation is still affected by it's HQ size and the size of the HQ that is commanding it from orbit.

Large Orbital Command Module:
*This module can only be mounted on Static Units or Vehicles of Medium Size or larger.
 - Weight: 250 Tons
 - Cost: ??
 --- This module allows ground units within it's own formation as well as all sub-ordinate formations to receive an HQ bonus from Ground Formation HQs in orbit.

Standard Orbital Command Module:
*This module can be mounted on any type of unit.
 - Weight: 50 Tons
 - Cost: ??
 --- This module allows ground units within it's own formation as well as formations that are directly parent to it receive an HQ bonus from Ground Formation HQs in orbit.

Small Orbital Command Module:
*This module can only be mounted on Infantry Type units.
 - Weight: 10 Tons
 - Cost: ??
 --- This module allows ground units within it's own formation only to receive an HQ bonus from Ground Formation HQs in orbit.

Feedback is welcome.

[Froggiest1982]

Pretty straightforward really, I'd like some way to command from orbit, Starship Troopers style.

 - To that end I propose a system of Ship Components and Ground Forces Modules. The HQ system would function as normal, but when the appropriate components are mounted onto the ship they would allow the HQ to confer it's benefit from orbit. Naturally the ship with the HQ would need to be in orbit in order for the command to function, so no commanding ground forces from outside of STO range. The Ground Forces still need an HQ to benefit from this, as per the usual rules, but in addition to that they need an Orbital Command Module that can be mounted on a Ground Unit from the Ground forces Design Window. This unit then needs to be present in the formation to grant the bonus.

 - Logistics Vehicles function as normal, the shuttles needed are considered accounted for by the mass of the various modules. Which modules confer the benefit is up to the player. In the case that one module is less restrictive than the other, the most restrictive module will be used. So if an HQ is aboard a ship with an Orbital Command Bridge, but is commanding a unit with a Large Orbital Command Module that has formations sub-ordinate to it that are not directly parent to it, those formations will not gain a benefit from the orbital HQ. Likewise if the HQ is aboard a ship with an Orbital Command Centre, but is commanding a unit with only a Standard Orbital Command Module, then the same thing will happen if that formation has sub-ordinates that are not directly parent to it.

 - The most restrictive module is always used as each individually handles the sending and receiving of orders. So logically it would follow that if the ship module can send very complex orders it would not help if the orders cannot be received in a meaningful way. So Orbital Command Centres would not be useful unless you had multiple divisions being linked to it, and those divisions would need a command structure that included the appropriate facilities and equipment to effectively translate those commands into action.

The technologies to unlock these would go something like this:

 - Orbital Command Bridge:
    - Auxiliary Bridge

 - Orbital Command Centre:
    - Orbital Command Bridge

 - Standard Orbital Command Module:
    - Orbital Command Bridge

 - Small Orbital Command Module:
    - Orbital Command Bridge
    - Standard Orbital Command Module

 - Large Orbital Command Module:
    - Orbital Command Bridge
    - Standard Orbital Command Module


Ship Components:

*To function as an Orbital Command the ship must be equipped with at least one Orbital Command Bridge or an Orbital Command Centre and be in Orbit of the appropriate body.

Orbital Command Centre:
*This is considered a Command and Control module and adds +2 to minimum ship rank.
 - Weight: 1,250 Tons
 - Cost: ??
 - Crew Requirements: ??
 - Military or Commercial: Commercial.
 --- This module allows a standard Ground Forces HQ to confer it's bonus to any number of sub-ordinate formations from orbit.

Orbital Command Bridge:
*This is considered a Command and Control module and adds +1 to minimum ship rank.
 - Weight: 250 Tons
 - Cost: ??
 - Crew Requirements: ??
 - Military or Commercial: Commercial.
 --- This module allows a standard Ground Forces HQ to confer it's bonus to any formations are directly parent to it from orbit.

Ground Forces Modules:
*To benefit from Orbital Command a formation must have an HQ and at least one unit with an Orbital Command Module of some type. An Orbital Command Module isn't affected by formation size, but the formation is still affected by it's HQ size and the size of the HQ that is commanding it from orbit.

Large Orbital Command Module:
*This module can only be mounted on Static Units or Vehicles of Medium Size or larger.
 - Weight: 250 Tons
 - Cost: ??
 --- This module allows ground units within it's own formation as well as all sub-ordinate formations to receive an HQ bonus from Ground Formation HQs in orbit.

Standard Orbital Command Module:
*This module can be mounted on any type of unit.
 - Weight: 50 Tons
 - Cost: ??
 --- This module allows ground units within it's own formation as well as formations that are directly parent to it receive an HQ bonus from Ground Formation HQs in orbit.

Small Orbital Command Module:
*This module can only be mounted on Infantry Type units.
 - Weight: 10 Tons
 - Cost: ??
 --- This module allows ground units within it's own formation only to receive an HQ bonus from Ground Formation HQs in orbit.

Feedback is welcome.

Pretty straightforward: why? What it adds to the gameplay? What problem with current structure it solves?

I do believe in the future if ever an interplanetary war will happen surely there would be some sort of administration from Orbit if not directly from the Homeworld and not only on the field but still not sure if this is the right thing for Aurora.

Despite that I also don't think any of these components could be classified as commercial because their use is purely military.

[QuakeIV]

Well, the fairly obvious problem its solving is the small matter of headquarters units getting blown up in ground combat where the orbital situation is totally secure.  I think its a reasonable tradeoff insofar as the HQ being in orbit still leaves it entirely vulnerable, potentially even moreso since ships tend to die much faster and more easily than ground units when subejcted to something that could kill them.

[Cobaia]

This is a chain of command problem.
Real life Ground Armies do have HQ that are far from the theater of battle, and there are command structures at the squad level.

With this in mind, sure it would make sense to have planetary and ship HQ that affect the ground forces but the bonuses should be fractional to the unit associated HQ, the higher the HQ chain the less tactical they are and more strategic they become.

[Jorgen_CAB]

In my opinion the Fleet hierarchy should simply include both ship and ground forces and there could be some ground based flag operation module for ships as well that kind of work like the normal flag bridge which could hold an overarching commander in chief of a particular ground assault.

You then could get bonuses from regular naval admins for ground operations as well as from the local HQ.

The flag bridge would not even need to be in orbit of the planet as they are not a tactical HQ but there to coordinate all the forces from air, space to ground efforts in regard to planetary operations. So they would effect bombardment, air-war and ground war.

It would be nice to have everything tied into the same system. I also believe that admirals in this world would be superior to ground generals at the upper levels of operations too.  But there could be a special ground based admin command where you can have a general take command and where you can only attach ground forces, but ground forces should still be able to be attached directly to naval admins too and even be like sub-groups to fleets for boarding actions etc...

I would like to see all of my command structure in one place if possible.

[Froggiest1982]

In my opinion the Fleet hierarchy should simply include both ship and ground forces and there could be some ground based flag operation module for ships as well that kind of work like the normal flag bridge which could hold an overarching commander in chief of a particular ground assault.

You then could get bonuses from regular naval admins for ground operations as well as from the local HQ.

The flag bridge would not even need to be in orbit of the planet as they are not a tactical HQ but there to coordinate all the forces from air, space to ground efforts in regard to planetary operations. So they would effect bombardment, air-war and ground war.

It would be nice to have everything tied into the same system. I also believe that admirals in this world would be superior to ground generals at the upper levels of operations too.  But there could be a special ground based admin command where you can have a general take command and where you can only attach ground forces, but ground forces should still be able to be attached directly to naval admins too and even be like sub-groups to fleets for boarding actions etc...

I would like to see all of my command structure in one place if possible.

This is reasonable. I could agree with most if not all of it. Still not a fan of a ground module on a ship though.

[Black]

I don't see anything bad with it being ship component. Such ships were used during WW2/ Korean war for amphibious assaults. USS Mount McKinley would be most famous example. They still exist today but they serve as floating HQs.

[liveware]

I would welcome the addition of a ground support bridge-like component, similar to the existing flag bridge but dedicated to supporting ground forces instead.

Alternatively I would settle for allowing ground commanders to convey their bonuses to subordinate formations so long as the command formation is located in a troop transport module on a ship in orbit of the body where the subordinate formations are located.

To me the major difference in naval/ground force command hierarchies is that ground units require HQ capacity while naval units do not. So the HQ capacity would need to be somehow tied into the ground support bridge.

[Droll]

I would welcome the addition of a ground support bridge-like component, similar to the existing flag bridge but dedicated to supporting ground forces instead.

Alternatively I would settle for allowing ground commanders to convey their bonuses to subordinate formations so long as the command formation is located in a troop transport module on a ship in orbit of the body where the subordinate formations are located.

To me the major difference in naval/ground force command hierarchies is that ground units require HQ capacity while naval units do not. So the HQ capacity would need to be somehow tied into the ground support bridge.

An alternative to this could have a ground force counter part for the naval headquarters. Formation commanders would work like they should now but now you have a ground command staff that can confer bonuses to units within the range of the HQ.

You can even rename the naval HQ to military HQ and add a new admin type called "ground" or something and attach ground formations to admins.

This allows you to have commanders provide some bonuses without being in danger themselves but also still keep the majority of the bonuses on commanders that are on the ground with the troops. So if my HQ units have been knocked out I'm not operating in the complete absence of commanders - just with much less in way of bonuses.

[liveware]

I am actually in favor of a unification of ground and naval forces into just 'military' forces with a single command hierarchy. I am fairly certain this is how real militaries/governments are typically organized. At some level someone is in overall command... whether it is the grand space admiral of Sol or space master general of Terra doesn't make much difference in my mind.

[Droll]

I am actually in favor of a unification of ground and naval forces into just 'military' forces with a single command hierarchy. I am fairly certain this is how real militaries/governments are typically organized. At some level someone is in overall command...

It would be interesting to merge the naval and ground OOB UIs but it would be challenging. Steve would have to add ground and navy filters and sorting would become very complicated.
But it would certainly be interesting to be able to simulate something like the pentagon.

[SpikeTheHobbitMage]

If you go by US structure, the President is in overall command with the Joint Chiefs of Staff divided between the different branches.  While they all share an office building (the Pentagon) to facilitate inter-branch communication, each branch has its own section to itself.  Some countries (like Canada) have a General in charge of the military who reports to the head of state, but under that commander it again splits into different branches.  Land based armies and air forces tend to have very different operational, logistical, and equipment requirements than naval based forces.

[liveware]

If you go by US structure, the President is in overall command with the Joint Chiefs of Staff divided between the different branches.  While they all share an office building (the Pentagon) to facilitate inter-branch communication, each branch has its own section to itself.  Some countries (like Canada) have a General in charge of the military who reports to the head of state, but under that commander it again splits into different branches.  Land based armies and air forces tend to have very different operational, logistical, and equipment requirements than naval based forces.

Point taken but at a higher strategic level I would assume someone at some point would decide 'F**** it, I'm in charge. Here's what we're going to do today....'

And from that lower level commands would propagate naturally.

I doubt the President of the US or the Queen of England or the Premier (or whatever these days) of Russia (or another relevant leader) would engage first-hand in the logistical management of refueling a fighter on a carrier. Not even a forward deployed carrier in hostile territory. Maybe they would have an opinion about the generic logistical support of a forward deployed task force, but splitting command down to the level of a single ship is unrealistic I think, in terms of the scope offered by Aurora.