Local system

[Thrake (OP)]

I struggle to understand how it works. I bumped it up to 50% generation chance (untouched) and 8 generation spread thinking it would make for an interconnected galaxy. Now I have discovered 71 systems, 12 of which lead directly... to Sol! It's a bit disapointing to have my homeworld as the hub of the galaxy: while convenient, it kills the need for logistics. Did I misunderstood the mechanic or is it just sheer randomness?

The other systems feel pretty fine otherwise, most just have 2 or 3 jump points, occasionally up to 4 IIRC.

[Father Tim]

I struggle to understand how it works. I bumped it up to 50% generation chance (untouched) and 8 generation spread thinking it would make for an interconnected galaxy. Now I have discovered 71 systems, 12 of which lead directly... to Sol! It's a bit disapointing to have my homeworld as the hub of the galaxy: while convenient, it kills the need for logistics. Did I misunderstood the mechanic or is it just sheer randomness?

The other systems feel pretty fine otherwise, most just have 2 or 3 jump points, occasionally up to 4 IIRC.

A jump point in system 100 has a 50% chance to lead to (92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 101, 102, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107 or 108) and a 50% chance to lead to literally any sytem in the game other than 100.  In other words, a roughly (0.5*(1/16)=0.03125 or) 3.125% chance (3.225% in a 1001-system galaxy) to lead to a specific neighbouring system.

[skoormit]

I struggle to understand how it works. I bumped it up to 50% generation chance (untouched) and 8 generation spread thinking it would make for an interconnected galaxy. Now I have discovered 71 systems, 12 of which lead directly... to Sol! It's a bit disapointing to have my homeworld as the hub of the galaxy: while convenient, it kills the need for logistics. Did I misunderstood the mechanic or is it just sheer randomness?

The other systems feel pretty fine otherwise, most just have 2 or 3 jump points, occasionally up to 4 IIRC.

Are you playing 1.9.5?
According to Steve's change log, this was fixed for the 1.9.5 version.

[Thrake (OP)]

I struggle to understand how it works. I bumped it up to 50% generation chance (untouched) and 8 generation spread thinking it would make for an interconnected galaxy. Now I have discovered 71 systems, 12 of which lead directly... to Sol! It's a bit disapointing to have my homeworld as the hub of the galaxy: while convenient, it kills the need for logistics. Did I misunderstood the mechanic or is it just sheer randomness?

The other systems feel pretty fine otherwise, most just have 2 or 3 jump points, occasionally up to 4 IIRC.

A jump point in system 100 has a 50% chance to lead to (92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 101, 102, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107 or 108) and a 50% chance to lead to literally any sytem in the game other than 100.  In other words, a roughly (0.5*(1/16)=0.03125 or) 3.125% chance (3.225% in a 1001-system galaxy) to lead to a specific neighbouring system.

And I guess that systems 92 to 108 are otherwise supposed to form a continuous chain of systems. Ok, I think I got it this time, thanks!

I struggle to understand how it works. I bumped it up to 50% generation chance (untouched) and 8 generation spread thinking it would make for an interconnected galaxy. Now I have discovered 71 systems, 12 of which lead directly... to Sol! It's a bit disapointing to have my homeworld as the hub of the galaxy: while convenient, it kills the need for logistics. Did I misunderstood the mechanic or is it just sheer randomness?

The other systems feel pretty fine otherwise, most just have 2 or 3 jump points, occasionally up to 4 IIRC.

Are you playing 1.9.5?
According to Steve's change log, this was fixed for the 1.9.5 version.

I started playing in older than 1.9.4 versions but still got 2 or 3 extra connections to Sol IIRC since I patched it. I feel like I also got more links beetween distant systems recently.

[Father Tim]

And I guess that systems 92 to 108 are otherwise supposed to form a continuous chain of systems. Ok, I think I got it this time, thanks!

No.  Aurora defines "local system" for the purposes of these settings by system number.  Whether system #0042 ends up anywhere near (on the map) system #0043 is entirely a result of these calculations, not an input to them.

Aurora doesn't consider whether this jump point from Washington should go to Oregon or Idaho, it only looks at the numbers.  If Washington is 1234 and Idaho is 1242 and Oregon is 7777 (because it 'failed' the local system generation chance), then Oregon is NOT "local" to Washington and it has only a one-in-twenty-thousand (assuming a 10,000 system galaxy) chance of being a destination from Idaho.


- - - - -


Oh, and choosing "Known Stars" ignores these rules entirely and uses Aurora's built-in catalogue of stellar coordinates to pick a 'local' star by distance.

[skoormit]

I started playing in older than 1.9.4 versions but still got 2 or 3 extra connections to Sol IIRC since I patched it. I feel like I also got more links beetween distant systems recently.

Keep in mind, the endpoints for a jp are calculated before you explore it.
I'm not sure if it is calculated when the jp is discovered, or when the system itself is created.
If these jps already existed before you patched to 1.9.5, but you only explored them after patching to 1.9.5, they could still be suffering from the bug.

[kks]

I started playing in older than 1.9.4 versions but still got 2 or 3 extra connections to Sol IIRC since I patched it. I feel like I also got more links beetween distant systems recently.

Keep in mind, the endpoints for a jp are calculated before you explore it.
I'm not sure if it is calculated when the jp is discovered, or when the system itself is created.
If these jps already existed before you patched to 1.9.5, but you only explored them after patching to 1.9.5, they could still be suffering from the bug.

Iirc this is not the case. The destination of an JP is determined when the JP is first explored, I think.

[skoormit]

I started playing in older than 1.9.4 versions but still got 2 or 3 extra connections to Sol IIRC since I patched it. I feel like I also got more links beetween distant systems recently.

Keep in mind, the endpoints for a jp are calculated before you explore it.
I'm not sure if it is calculated when the jp is discovered, or when the system itself is created.
If these jps already existed before you patched to 1.9.5, but you only explored them after patching to 1.9.5, they could still be suffering from the bug.

Iirc this is not the case. The destination of an JP is determined when the JP is first explored, I think.

Negative. The database has information about both endpoints before the JP is explored.

[SpaceCowboy]

I started playing in older than 1.  9.  4 versions but still got 2 or 3 extra connections to Sol IIRC since I patched it.   I feel like I also got more links beetween distant systems recently. 

Keep in mind, the endpoints for a jp are calculated before you explore it.   
I'm not sure if it is calculated when the jp is discovered, or when the system itself is created. 
If these jps already existed before you patched to 1.  9.  5, but you only explored them after patching to 1.  9.  5, they could still be suffering from the bug. 

Iirc this is not the case.   The destination of an JP is determined when the JP is first explored, I think. 

Negative.   The database has information about both endpoints before the JP is explored. 

I just tested this in a new game with SM, and the destination of JPs is definitely decided at the moment of exploration. 

I suspect the confusing thing is that when playing a random stars game you'll always connect to a system that is given the next name on the list.   My quick SM test randomly choose "US States" as the system naming theme, so the first JP I explored was always to a star named "Alabama.  " The first time I tried this, the next JP in Sol connected to the bugged-out duplicate Sol.   But when I reloaded the DB to try a second time, that same JP connected to "Alaska.  "

This is a lot easier to see using known-stars.   Actually, I save-scum* all the time in my known-stars game right before I explore a JP so that I can choose an interesting destination by saving/reloading.


* -- don't tell Steve

[Father Tim]

This is a lot easier to see using known-stars.   Actually, I save-scum* all the time in my known-stars game right before I explore a JP so that I can choose an interesting destination by saving/reloading.


* -- don't tell Steve

Well, you're already making the "mistake" of using Known Stars, so what does it matter?  #:-]

[skoormit]

I started playing in older than 1.  9.  4 versions but still got 2 or 3 extra connections to Sol IIRC since I patched it.   I feel like I also got more links beetween distant systems recently. 

Keep in mind, the endpoints for a jp are calculated before you explore it.   
I'm not sure if it is calculated when the jp is discovered, or when the system itself is created. 
If these jps already existed before you patched to 1.  9.  5, but you only explored them after patching to 1.  9.  5, they could still be suffering from the bug. 

Iirc this is not the case.   The destination of an JP is determined when the JP is first explored, I think. 

Negative.   The database has information about both endpoints before the JP is explored. 

I just tested this in a new game with SM, and the destination of JPs is definitely decided at the moment of exploration. 

I suspect the confusing thing is that when playing a random stars game you'll always connect to a system that is given the next name on the list.   My quick SM test randomly choose "US States" as the system naming theme, so the first JP I explored was always to a star named "Alabama.  " The first time I tried this, the next JP in Sol connected to the bugged-out duplicate Sol.   But when I reloaded the DB to try a second time, that same JP connected to "Alaska.  "

This is a lot easier to see using known-stars.   Actually, I save-scum* all the time in my known-stars game right before I explore a JP so that I can choose an interesting destination by saving/reloading.


* -- don't tell Steve

Well, something weird is going on, for sure.
I'm not confused by the same name being chosen.

The table in the database that contains jump point information already has that information before you explore the jp.
In fact, there is another table that holds the information about which races have explored which jps.

That said, if the jp is connecting to a new system, the system itself is not generated until you explore the jp.
If you are save scumming by re-exploring a jp that connects to a new system, you will see a different system every time, but each time the system number is the same.

It could also be the case that the examples I'm looking at are jps that have been explored by another race already. Therefore the endpoints have already been determined, they just aren't yet known to the humans.

At any rate, it appears that when Steve fixed the 1.9.4 bug that was causing JP links to known systems to instead create new systems with the same number, he inadvertently re-introduced the "all roads lead to Sol" bug.

We should be able to work around the bug by setting the local system generation chance to 100. That's not ideal, but it's good enough for me, for now.

[Thrake (OP)]

I started playing in older than 1.  9.  4 versions but still got 2 or 3 extra connections to Sol IIRC since I patched it.   I feel like I also got more links beetween distant systems recently. 

Keep in mind, the endpoints for a jp are calculated before you explore it.   
I'm not sure if it is calculated when the jp is discovered, or when the system itself is created. 
If these jps already existed before you patched to 1.  9.  5, but you only explored them after patching to 1.  9.  5, they could still be suffering from the bug. 

Iirc this is not the case.   The destination of an JP is determined when the JP is first explored, I think. 

Negative.   The database has information about both endpoints before the JP is explored. 

I just tested this in a new game with SM, and the destination of JPs is definitely decided at the moment of exploration. 

I suspect the confusing thing is that when playing a random stars game you'll always connect to a system that is given the next name on the list.   My quick SM test randomly choose "US States" as the system naming theme, so the first JP I explored was always to a star named "Alabama.  " The first time I tried this, the next JP in Sol connected to the bugged-out duplicate Sol.   But when I reloaded the DB to try a second time, that same JP connected to "Alaska.  "

This is a lot easier to see using known-stars.   Actually, I save-scum* all the time in my known-stars game right before I explore a JP so that I can choose an interesting destination by saving/reloading.


* -- don't tell Steve

Well, something weird is going on, for sure.
I'm not confused by the same name being chosen.

The table in the database that contains jump point information already has that information before you explore the jp.
In fact, there is another table that holds the information about which races have explored which jps.

That said, if the jp is connecting to a new system, the system itself is not generated until you explore the jp.
If you are save scumming by re-exploring a jp that connects to a new system, you will see a different system every time, but each time the system number is the same.

It could also be the case that the examples I'm looking at are jps that have been explored by another race already. Therefore the endpoints have already been determined, they just aren't yet known to the humans.

At any rate, it appears that when Steve fixed the 1.9.4 bug that was causing JP links to known systems to instead create new systems with the same number, he inadvertently re-introduced the "all roads lead to Sol" bug.

We should be able to work around the bug by setting the local system generation chance to 100. That's not ideal, but it's good enough for me, for now.

Yes. I have at least 5 races paying a visit home before I even research trans-newtonian tech, and I was confused. Just SMed a new game where I met 6 races by 2028 and it turns out that I have 12 JP in Sol. All new games I played in the last version had the same issue (generation setting is set to minimum 3 JP in Sol). I guess there's no need to report it again if it's already a known issue