Critique required

[Zenorefe (OP)]

Hello Aurora Forum

Recently I have just began my first game of aurora without a tutorial holding my hand.           I ask that someone look at the design below, it is my first attempt to design a military ship with attack and defense missiles.          Please point out any faults or possible improvement in my design, anything will be greatly appreciated.   

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Nelson Mrk I class Cruiser    7 950 tons     208 Crew     1003.55 BP      TCS 159  TH 300  EM 0
1886 km/s     Armour 1-35     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 17
Maint Life 0.19 Years     MSP 79    AFR 505%    IFR 7%    1YR 406    5YR 6091    Max Repair 300 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 24 months    Spare Berths 0   
Magazine 37   

Dunn Limited 50 EP Nuclear Thermal Engine (6)    Power 50    Fuel Use 90%    Signature 50    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 750 000 Litres    Range 18.9 billion km   (115 days at full power)

Donnelly Techsystems Size 3 Missile Launcher (1)    Missile Size 3    Rate of Fire 45
Bell-Carey Space & Security Size 7 Missile Launcher (2)    Missile Size 7    Rate of Fire 105
Jones-Ahmed Missile Fire Control FC45-R1 (1)     Range 45.0m km    Resolution 1
Miller Orbital Systems Missile Fire Control FC34-R60 (1)     Range 34.8m km    Resolution 60

Dobson-Gough Active Search Sensor MR38-R60  (1)     GPS 6000     Range 38.7m km    Resolution 60

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Thanks for any help

[83athom]

Copy and paste your design into bb code code ( put [code ] text here [/code ] with no spaces in the [] part, or use the # button above)

[Zenorefe (OP)]

Copy and paste your design into bb code code ( put [code ] text here [/code ] with no spaces in the [] part, or use the # button above)

Thanks man

[GreatTuna]

Thanks man

But you haven't done it.

Still, I guess you need a review of your ship.

Nelson Mrk I, the missile cruiser, has great speed compared to other Nuclear Thermal-driven ships.
But this seem to come at great cost:
1. No armor.
2. Very low maintenance life. Your ship will break apart as soon as it leaves your maintenance facilities.
3. The ship can fire only TWO salvos from its magazines.
4. What's the point of making such big AMM fire controls if you supposedly don't have AMM launchers?

I would advice you to remove the AMM FC and 1-2 engines and add enough armor to withstand at least one salvo of your own missiles, more magazines, some engineering spaces and maybe 1-2 extra launchers.

[83athom]

*facepalm* I meant actually copying and pasting the design from the game window into the code. Just click and drag to select and right click and click copy (or CRTL C) in the game design window and past it in the browser
Example;

Code: [Select]

Nautilus class Destroyer    7 500 tons     273 Crew     2200.4531 BP      TCS 150  TH 703.5  EM 360
6253 km/s     Armour 5-34     Shields 12-375     Sensors 27/28/0/0     Damage Control Rating 32     PPV 24
Maint Life 17.74 Years     MSP 4035    AFR 20%    IFR 0.3%    1YR 24    5YR 364    Max Repair 439.4531 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 36 months    Spare Berths 1    

937.5 EP Gas Core AM Drive (1)    Power 937.5    Fuel Use 9.13%    Signature 703.125    Exp 7%
Fuel Capacity 750 000 Litres    Range 197.1 billion km   (364 days at full power)
Delta R375/150 Shields (5)   Total Fuel Cost  31 Litres per hour  (750 per day)

19cm C6 Ultraviolet Laser (Spinal) (1)    Range 360 000km     TS: 15000 km/s     Power 9-6     RM 4    ROF 10        9 9 9 9 7 6 5 4 4 3
Particle Beam-9-R6 (2)    Range 240 000km     TS: 15000 km/s     Power 22-6    ROF 20        9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9
CIWS-600 (1x12)    Range 1000 km     TS: 60000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Fire Control S01 240-7500 (1)    Max Range: 480 000 km   TS: 7500 km/s     98 96 94 92 90 88 85 83 81 79
Gas-core Anti-matter Power Plant PB-1-20 (1)     Total Power Output 20    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Active Search Sensor MR165-R100 (1)     GPS 15000     Range 165.0m km    Resolution 100
Thermal Sensor TH2.5-27 (1)     Sensitivity 27     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  27m km
EM Detection Sensor EM2.5-27.5 (1)     Sensitivity 27.5     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  27.5m km

ECCM-2 (1)         ECM 20

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
Mid game destroyer (almost 100 years in from a conventional start.)

[Zenorefe (OP)]

But you haven't done it.

Still, I guess you need a review of your ship.

Nelson Mrk I, the missile cruiser, has great speed compared to other Nuclear Thermal-driven ships.
But this seem to come at great cost:
1.  No armor.
2.  Very low maintenance life.  Your ship will break apart as soon as it leaves your maintenance facilities.
3.  The ship can fire only TWO salvos from its magazines.
4.  What's the point of making such big AMM fire controls if you supposedly don't have AMM launchers?

I would advice you to remove the AMM FC and 1-2 engines and add enough armor to withstand at least one salvo of your own missiles, more magazines, some engineering spaces and maybe 1-2 extra launchers.

Thanks, not good with forums, I noticed the maint life issue when an engine blew up orbiting Luna.  I'm not sure about the AMM launchers, they're the size three launchers, are you saying that they are not set up correctly or what?

[Zenorefe (OP)]

*facepalm* I meant actually copying and pasting the design from the game window into the code.  Just click and drag to select and right click and click copy (or CRTL C) in the game design window and past it in the browser
Example;

Code: [Select]

Nautilus class Destroyer    7 500 tons     273 Crew     2200.4531 BP      TCS 150  TH 703.5  EM 360
6253 km/s     Armour 5-34     Shields 12-375     Sensors 27/28/0/0     Damage Control Rating 32     PPV 24
Maint Life 17.74 Years     MSP 4035    AFR 20%    IFR 0.3%    1YR 24    5YR 364    Max Repair 439.4531 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 36 months    Spare Berths 1    

937.5 EP Gas Core AM Drive (1)    Power 937.5    Fuel Use 9.13%    Signature 703.125    Exp 7%
Fuel Capacity 750 000 Litres    Range 197.1 billion km   (364 days at full power)
Delta R375/150 Shields (5)   Total Fuel Cost  31 Litres per hour  (750 per day)

19cm C6 Ultraviolet Laser (Spinal) (1)    Range 360 000km     TS: 15000 km/s     Power 9-6     RM 4    ROF 10        9 9 9 9 7 6 5 4 4 3
Particle Beam-9-R6 (2)    Range 240 000km     TS: 15000 km/s     Power 22-6    ROF 20        9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9
CIWS-600 (1x12)    Range 1000 km     TS: 60000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Fire Control S01 240-7500 (1)    Max Range: 480 000 km   TS: 7500 km/s     98 96 94 92 90 88 85 83 81 79
Gas-core Anti-matter Power Plant PB-1-20 (1)     Total Power Output 20    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Active Search Sensor MR165-R100 (1)     GPS 15000     Range 165.0m km    Resolution 100
Thermal Sensor TH2.5-27 (1)     Sensitivity 27     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  27m km
EM Detection Sensor EM2.5-27.5 (1)     Sensitivity 27.5     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  27.5m km

ECCM-2 (1)         ECM 20

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
Mid game destroyer (almost 100 years in from a conventional start. )

I'm new, does that fire control guide all of those weapons? And What am I doing wrong with size? Should my early game ship really be bigger than a late game one?

[83athom]

Yes to the fire control question because they are similar in range, but I could have more if I wanted. And to the size question, it doesn't really mater. For me I always keep classes the same sizes ie. Frigates are 2k-4k, tons Destroyers are 5k-8k tons, Cruisers 10k-20k tons, Battlecruisers/Light Carriers 20k-40k tons, Main Capital ships 50k+ tons. But it is all about design doctrine your using. In the Halo universe Frigates are 30k-40k tons, Destroyers 60k-80k, Cruisers 100k-200k, Capitals 200k+, the Infinity class is somewhere between 2m and 2.1m tons. Its really up to what you feel you need.

[83athom]

And about your ship, design larger engines for it (you would want either 1 that equals the size of the 6 you have, or 2 equaling 1.5 the size of them). Add a few size 1 launchers (Anti Missile Missiles).  Have the armour be at least 4 (so strength equals area, as well as it being the cosmic number). For your main missile control for your larger launcher, have the resolution size be at 150+, I usually have the size at around 2.5 for general purpose and 5 for specialized large craft. Design and add more magazines, I would have about 10-15 main missiles for each launcher, 30-50 for mid-sized, and 50+ for AMMs (keep in mind that the magazines stores are per MSP so a size 3 needs 3 space). Just in case I would add either a small gauss cannon turret (double+) or a CIWS or anti-missile purposes, but that is just me.

[CaptainBipto]

Very new at designing myself. I think you need berths for your flight crew. Something something check "keep Q". I want to go with carriers, fighters and facs myself!

[MarcAFK]

Very new at designing myself. I think you need berths for your flight crew. Something something check "keep Q". I want to go with carriers, fighters and facs myself!

The design doesn't have any hangers, so needs to flight crew berths.
I'm interested to see the specifications for the missiles you're using, I would suggest ditching the size 3 launchers and make your fire control resolution 60 to match your sensor, you'll save space and won't need a res 1 fire control unless you plan on targeting fighters/missiles, in which case you need a resolution 1 sensor too, I suggest making an escort with a res 1 sensor. If you do wish to target missiles then perhaps lower the resolution 1 fire control's range significantly as you'll still be hard pressed to get a res 1 sensor with that kind of range. With low tech engines I generally limit the range significantly to save weight and hence fuel. You shouldn't need more than a few billion kilometres range, put fuel dumps around your home system and any system you intent to station the fleet and put good efficiency tankers with the fleet when it travels. You could probably save fuel and get increased speed by designing engines 3 times the size but with slightly more than 3 times the power multiplier. You could hit 2000 km's and still get decent range.
You need armour desperately, at least 3 layers so you can survive a few hits. And maintenance life is very important, your ship has 115 days of fuel but will break after 69 days, and doesn't have enough maintenance spares to repair the most costly item on board, you need minimum 300 MSP on board to prevent this. I suggest upping the maintenance life to 6 months, also drop the deployment time to match and save a bit of space. Lastly reduced size launchers will allow a far greater broadside so research 75% reduction asap, but until then add some more magazine space.

[Zenorefe (OP)]

Wow, thanks for all the advice and such.   Here's the new Nelson MrkIII; I've added more armour, removed the extra launch tubes (not sure why they were there) and designed new missiles.   I'm not totally sure what to do about sensors and fire control though.  Can I ask for some brief pointers on them?

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Nelson Mrk III class Missile Cruiser    7 850 tons     155 Crew     970.3 BP      TCS 157  TH 480  EM 60
3057 km/s     Armour 4-35     Shields 2-450     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 3     PPV 14
Maint Life 1.79 Years     MSP 232    AFR 164%    IFR 2.3%    1YR 90    5YR 1350    Max Repair 100 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 24 months    Spare Berths 1    
Magazine 154    

Grade 2 NP Engine 160 EP Nuclear Pulse Engine (3)    Power 160    Fuel Use 64%    Signature 160    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 760 000 Litres    Range 27.2 billion km   (103 days at full power)
Bolton Dynamics Beta R450/324 Shields (1)   Total Fuel Cost  14 Litres per hour  (324 per day)

Torpedo Launcher MrkI Size 7 Missile Launcher (2)    Missile Size 7    Rate of Fire 70
Torpedo Missile Control Missile Fire Control FC29-R30 (70%) (1)     Range 29.6m km    Resolution 30
Size 7 Anti-ship Missile (22)  Speed: 14 300 km/s   End: 379.5m    Range: 325.6m km   WH: 2    Size: 7    TH: 57/34/17

Dobson-Gough Active Search Sensor MR38-R60  (1)     GPS 6000     Range 38.7m km    Resolution 60

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Also here's the new missile. 

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Missile Size: 7 MSP  (0.35 HS)     Warhead: 3    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 13
Speed: 14300 km/s    Engine Endurance: 6.3 hours   Range: 325.6m km
Cost Per Missile: 2.48
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 185.9%   3k km/s 52%   5k km/s 37.2%   10k km/s 18.6%
Materials Required:    0.75x Tritanium   1.73x Gallicite   Fuel x1250

Development Cost for Project: 248RP

PS: Is it just me or is the forums and wiki very slow?

[83athom]

Wow, thanks for all the advice and such.   Here's the new Nelson MrkIII; I've added more armour, removed the extra launch tubes (not sure why they were there) and designed new missiles.   I'm not totally sure what to do about sensors and fire control though.  Can I ask for some brief pointers on them?

What is it your confused about? I think this should clear things up a bit. http://aurorawiki.pentarch.org/index.php?title=Active_Sensors/Fire_Control and http://aurorawiki.pentarch.org/index.php?title=Active_Sensor_Design

Code: [Select]

Nelson Mrk III class Missile Cruiser    7 850 tons     155 Crew     970.3 BP      TCS 157  TH 480  EM 60
3057 km/s     Armour 4-35     Shields 2-450     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 3     PPV 14
Maint Life 1.79 Years     MSP 232    AFR 164%    IFR 2.3%    1YR 90    5YR 1350    Max Repair 100 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 24 months    Spare Berths 1    
Magazine 154    

Grade 2 NP Engine 160 EP Nuclear Pulse Engine (3)    Power 160    Fuel Use 64%    Signature 160    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 760 000 Litres    Range 27.2 billion km   (103 days at full power)
Bolton Dynamics Beta R450/324 Shields (1)   Total Fuel Cost  14 Litres per hour  (324 per day)

Torpedo Launcher MrkI Size 7 Missile Launcher (2)    Missile Size 7    Rate of Fire 70
Torpedo Missile Control Missile Fire Control FC29-R30 (70%) (1)     Range 29.6m km    Resolution 30
Size 7 Anti-ship Missile (22)  Speed: 14 300 km/s   End: 379.5m    Range: 325.6m km   WH: 2    Size: 7    TH: 57/34/17

Dobson-Gough Active Search Sensor MR38-R60  (1)     GPS 6000     Range 38.7m km    Resolution 60

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes


This is looking a lot better. Just remember to keep it far from the actual fight as this is a ship geared toward long range bombardment. I would also design a really fast scout ship to go with this with large active sensors, others would say do that and remove the active sensors on it but its up to you. Also, change the missile fire control to at least resolution 100 and double the size, because your fire control only can aim at an object 1/10th the distance your missile can shoot, same goes for your active search sensor. Also, moar shieldz, yours currently block 2 damage every 7.5 minutes. Shields do a constant regeneration to the total over the recharge period, in your case 450 seconds (7.5 minutes), so it takes nearly 4 minutes to be able to take 1 damage. I think at your current tech level, this ship design should be around 12k tons to have full effect for what you want.

Also here's the new missile. 

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Missile Size: 7 MSP  (0.35 HS)     Warhead: 3    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 13
Speed: 14300 km/s    Engine Endurance: 6.3 hours   Range: 325.6m km
Cost Per Missile: 2.48
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 185.9%   3k km/s 52%   5k km/s 37.2%   10k km/s 18.6%
Materials Required:    0.75x Tritanium   1.73x Gallicite   Fuel x1250

Development Cost for Project: 248RP


I actually want to know how the missile does so little damage for its size. I think you should re-do it with 1/2 the fuel and replace most of it with warhead. Also, question, why does the design here say warhead 3 when on the ship design it says warhead 2?

PS: Is it just me or is the forums and wiki very slow?

Yes, but it is getting better.

[MarcAFK]

It's certainly looking better as a ship, good speed, armour, range and maintenance life, Next you want to maximise its offensive capabilities, 2 launchers isn't going to do much unless you have a large group of these. You can save space which you can devote to more launchers by removing the sensor and putting one on a dedicated sensor platform. Also by raising the resolution of the fire control you can get more range or save space, I would aim for resolution 80 which could target ships half the size of your cruiser, but resolution 60 is good too.. Low tech shields are kind of useless especially if you want this ship to stay out of the fighting zone and lob stuff at long range so you can probably remove those too. If you can squeeze 4 launchers onto it you've effectively doubled the offensive capability of the ship, see if you pare down other systems to achieve that goal while not going over 8k tons.  Maybe pare down the range of the missile to 200 million, increase the warhead, design a 200 million range sensor and fire control, put the sensor onto a dedicated sensor ship.

[Zenorefe (OP)]

Update: Thanks for all the help guys, I'm much further along now and nearing out Sol expansion.  There was one problem when a shuttle blew up and I had to rush design a collier to refuel a troop transport by Saturn.  One new problem and I know its not the right place but I'm having error 5 popups, making the game unplayable.  Any ideas to fix? Or is there nothing to do?