Author Topic: Ships  (Read 13680 times)

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Offline Barkhorn

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Re: Ships
« Reply #135 on: July 15, 2017, 10:59:11 PM »
These have super thin armor.  A single strength 16 missile hit, or strength 4 laser hit could kill them.  All it takes is one bad dice roll and bam, you've got a magazine explosion and ~10,000bp down the drain.

Missile choices are odd too; why two different size 10 launcher types?

I LOVE the spinal laser though.
 
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Offline Detros

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Re: Ships
« Reply #136 on: July 16, 2017, 05:47:39 AM »
Missile choices are odd too; why two different size 10 launcher types?
Those "Cell launchers" are box sized. So Mod3 has first strike capability of 1x30 RSM-26 Halberd ASM, then 1x6 RSM-26 Halberd ASM after 50s, all at 120m km range. After that there are two groups 3x2 of twice as fast Surya-VI CAM at 12m km because now also the other FCs can help .

And yes, it is quite a glass cannon.
 
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Offline Lamandier

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Re: Ships
« Reply #137 on: July 16, 2017, 06:56:15 AM »
Detros nailed it; I usually build my designs with a mix of standard size and box launchers, so I can throw out one overwhelming salvo at the outset of an engagement but still have some missile capacity in reserve as I close the range. And the Wardens were fast enough to close the range on just about anything I ran into. (Looking at the original design, though, I'm not sure why it only has CAMs and no standard ASMs, although the refits all have a stock of Harpoons/Halberds. Hm.)

You're both absolutely right, though... it is a glass cannon, which was a semi-intentional design choice. The hope was that the CIWS and heavy AMM battery would protect them from missile fire, while the speed would keep other heavy beam-armed combatants from getting close enough to be a problem... and if anything DID get close enough, they'd have to deal with that lovely spinal laser and a wave or two of CAMs/LAMs. I never lost a Warden in combat, but I did have one get pretty chewed up by AMM spam once. In hindsight, though, they may not have fared as well against a large NPR fleet or certain spoilers. I don't think I quite realized just how little it would take to blast through that armor, as Barkhorn pointed out. Although I haven't used formations yet in any of my games, this is probably a design that would have benefited from them.

In-game, the Warden was also intended as the precursor for 'true' battlecruiser designs like the ship below:

Code: [Select]
Rheinland class Battlecruiser    36 000 tons     1177 Crew     7143 BP      TCS 720  TH 2340  EM 0
4333 km/s     Armour 4-97     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 86     PPV 180
Maint Life 8.41 Years     MSP 9426    AFR 136%    IFR 1.9%    1YR 238    5YR 3563    Max Repair 422 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Flight Crew Berths 8   
Flag Bridge    Hangar Deck Capacity 500 tons     Magazine 1236   

Delta Aviatik Astra-2 Ion Drive (5)    Power 624    Fuel Use 80.93%    Signature 468    Exp 13%
Fuel Capacity 2 590 000 Litres    Range 16.0 billion km   (42 days at full power)

Raytheon 'Cascade' 52cm C8 Spinal S-Laser (1)    Range 600 000km     TS: 10000 km/s     Power 71-8     RM 2    ROF 45        71 71 47 35 28 23 20 17 15 14
Insys LDARS-1 Single Turret (2x1)    Range 60 000km     TS: 26650 km/s     Power 3-5     RM 2    ROF 5        3 3 2 1 1 1 0 0 0 0
General Dynamics Phalanx-2 CIWS (1x8)    Range 1000 km     TS: 25000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Oerlikon Panther SK8 357mm Railgun (2x4)    Range 540 000km     TS: 10000 km/s     Power 27-8     RM 6    ROF 20        9 9 9 9 9 9 7 6 6 5
Raytheon TS/B-L9 Beam Fire Control (1)    Max Range: 600 000 km   TS: 9375 km/s     98 97 95 93 92 90 88 87 85 83
Raytheon TS/B-D25 Beam Fire Control (2)    Max Range: 75 000 km   TS: 25000 km/s     87 73 60 47 33 20 7 0 0 0
Jülich HTR258 GCFR (1)     Total Power Output 2.59    Armour 0    Exp 12%
Visegrad Group BLOK-3/52 GCFR (1)     Total Power Output 5.17    Armour 0    Exp 12%
General Atomics Goshawk-2 GCFR (1)     Total Power Output 27    Armour 0    Exp 16%

Steyr AG R10A2 Missile Launcher (8)    Missile Size 10    Rate of Fire 100
Saab-Scania RS9 Countermissile Battery (6)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 10
Klimov T-50 Drone Rack (4)    Missile Size 50    Hangar Reload 375 minutes    MF Reload 62.5 hours
Dassault Sylver A-110 Cell Launcher (12)    Missile Size 10    Hangar Reload 75 minutes    MF Reload 12.5 hours
Insys DTAC-II Defensive Fire Control (2)     Range 34.6m km    Resolution 1
EADS M2KA-16 'Cetis-A' Fire Control (1)     Range 259.2m km    Resolution 100
M12 Hawk II LAM (36)  Speed: 28 800 km/s   End: 2.5m    Range: 4.4m km   WH: 4    Size: 1    TH: 307/184/92
RIM-5G Adder CM (160)  Speed: 46 800 km/s   End: 0.9m    Range: 2.5m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 624/374/187
'Katana' SLAAD Anti-Ship Drone (4)  Speed: 23 000 km/s   End: 80.3m    Range: 110.8m km   WH: 120    Size: 50    TH: 230/138/69
Surya-VI CAM (8)  Speed: 50 400 km/s   End: 5.3m    Range: 16m km   WH: 15    Size: 10    TH: 420/252/126
RSM-25 Harpoon ASM (76)  Speed: 25 200 km/s   End: 60m    Range: 90.7m km   WH: 32    Size: 10    TH: 252/151/75

Selex Oracle ARSAI Sensor Array (1)     GPS 19200     Range 460.8m km    Resolution 100
Grumman D/M-80 Starwatch Sensor Array (1)     GPS 96     Range 23.0m km    MCR 2.5m km    Resolution 1

ECCM-2 (1)         ECM 20

Strike Group
1x Type 64 Shuttle   Speed: 6600 km/s    Size: 10

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Code: [Select]
Rheinland Mod 1 class Battlecruiser    36 000 tons     1239 Crew     10937.5 BP      TCS 720  TH 864  EM 0
5000 km/s     Armour 6-97     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 99     PPV 182
Maint Life 7.92 Years     MSP 14999    AFR 131%    IFR 1.8%    1YR 424    5YR 6358    Max Repair 1260 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Flight Crew Berths 7   
Flag Bridge    Hangar Deck Capacity 500 tons     Magazine 1236   

Delta Aviatik Astra-5 Ion Drive (4)    Power 900    Fuel Use 55.11%    Signature 216    Exp 15%
Fuel Capacity 2 525 000 Litres    Range 22.9 billion km   (53 days at full power)

Raytheon 'Cascade' 52cm C8 Spinal S-Laser (1)    Range 800 000km     TS: 10000 km/s     Power 71-8     RM 2    ROF 45        71 71 47 35 28 23 20 17 15 14
Insys LDARS-1 Single Turret (2x1)    Range 60 000km     TS: 26650 km/s     Power 3-5     RM 2    ROF 5        3 3 2 1 1 1 0 0 0 0
General Dynamics Phalanx-3 CIWS (1x10)    Range 1000 km     TS: 32000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Oerlikon Panther SK9 404mm Railgun (2x4)    Range 800 000km     TS: 10000 km/s     Power 36-10     RM 8    ROF 20        12 12 12 12 12 12 12 12 10 9
Raytheon TS/B-D32 Beam Fire Control (2)    Max Range: 100 000 km   TS: 32000 km/s     90 80 70 60 50 40 30 20 10 0
Raytheon TS/B-L12 Beam Fire Control (1)    Max Range: 800 000 km   TS: 12000 km/s     99 98 96 95 94 92 91 90 89 88
General Atomics Goshawk-2 GCFR (1)     Total Power Output 27    Armour 0    Exp 16%
Visegrad Group BLOK-3/52 GCFR (1)     Total Power Output 5.17    Armour 0    Exp 12%
Jülich HTR258 GCFR (1)     Total Power Output 2.59    Armour 0    Exp 12%
Pratt & Whitney PB-1 Power Pack (5)     Total Power Output 2.59    Armour 0    Exp 12%

Dassault Sylver A-110 Cell Launcher (12)    Missile Size 10    Hangar Reload 75 minutes    MF Reload 12.5 hours
Saab-Scania RS9 Countermissile Battery (6)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 10
Steyr AG R10A2 Missile Launcher (8)    Missile Size 10    Rate of Fire 100
Klimov T-50 Drone Rack (4)    Missile Size 50    Hangar Reload 375 minutes    MF Reload 62.5 hours
Insys DTAC-II Defensive Fire Control (2)     Range 34.6m km    Resolution 1
EADS M2KA-19 'Cetis-B' Fire Control (1)     Range 309.1m km    Resolution 80
Surya-VI CAM (8)  Speed: 50 400 km/s   End: 5.3m    Range: 16m km   WH: 15    Size: 10    TH: 420/252/126
M13 Hawk III LAM (36)  Speed: 28 800 km/s   End: 3.1m    Range: 5.4m km   WH: 4    Size: 1    TH: 307/184/92
Mistral-S CM (160)  Speed: 47 500 km/s   End: 0.8m    Range: 2.4m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 633/380/190
'Scimitar' SLAAD Anti-Ship Drone (4)  Speed: 28 800 km/s   End: 65m    Range: 112.3m km   WH: 120    Size: 50    TH: 288/172/86
RSM-26 Halberd ASM (76)  Speed: 25 600 km/s   End: 81.6m    Range: 125.4m km   WH: 32    Size: 10    TH: 273/163/81

Selex Oracle ARSAI Sensor Array (1)     GPS 19200     Range 460.8m km    Resolution 100
Grumman D/M-80 Starwatch Sensor Array (1)     GPS 96     Range 23.0m km    MCR 2.5m km    Resolution 1

ECCM-2 (1)         ECM 30

Strike Group
1x Type 90 Shuttle   Speed: 7200 km/s    Size: 10

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Code: [Select]
Rheinland Mod 2 class Battlecruiser    40 000 tons     1345 Crew     14240.5 BP      TCS 800  TH 1002.24  EM 0
5220 km/s     Armour 6-104     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 120     PPV 183
Maint Life 8.07 Years     MSP 20182    AFR 141%    IFR 2%    1YR 550    5YR 8255    Max Repair 2025 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Flight Crew Berths 14   
Flag Bridge    Hangar Deck Capacity 500 tons     Magazine 1343   

Delta Aviatik Astra-4 Ion Drive (6)    Power 696    Fuel Use 60.76%    Signature 167.04    Exp 14%
Fuel Capacity 3 500 000 Litres    Range 25.9 billion km   (57 days at full power)

Insys XLARS-II Single Turret (2x1)    Range 210 000km     TS: 50000 km/s     Power 3-12     RM 7    ROF 5        3 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 2 2
Raytheon 'Tempest' 52cm C12 Spinal X-Laser (1)    Range 800 000km     TS: 10000 km/s     Power 71-12     RM 7    ROF 30        71 71 71 71 71 71 71 62 55 49
General Dynamics Phalanx-3 CIWS (1x10)    Range 1000 km     TS: 32000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Oerlikon Panther SK9 404mm Railgun (2x4)    Range 800 000km     TS: 10000 km/s     Power 36-10     RM 8    ROF 20        12 12 12 12 12 12 12 12 10 9
Raytheon TS/B-D40 Beam Fire Control (2)    Max Range: 100 000 km   TS: 40000 km/s     90 80 70 60 50 40 30 20 10 0
Raytheon TS/B-L15 Beam Fire Control (1)    Max Range: 800 000 km   TS: 15000 km/s     99 98 96 95 94 92 91 90 89 88
Jülich HTR338 GCFR (1)     Total Power Output 3.37    Armour 0    Exp 35%
Visegrad Group BLOK-3/67 GCFR (3)     Total Power Output 20.25    Armour 0    Exp 35%
General Atomics Goshawk-3 GCFR (1)     Total Power Output 33.75    Armour 0    Exp 35%

Klimov T-50 Drone Rack (4)    Missile Size 50    Hangar Reload 375 minutes    MF Reload 62.5 hours
Steyr AG R10A3 Missile Launcher (8)    Missile Size 10    Rate of Fire 50
Dassault Sylver A-110 Cell Launcher (12)    Missile Size 10    Hangar Reload 75 minutes    MF Reload 12.5 hours
Saab-Scania RS10 Countermissile Battery (8)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 5
EADS M2KA-19 'Cetis-B' Fire Control (1)     Range 309.1m km    Resolution 80
Insys DTAC-II Defensive Fire Control (2)     Range 34.6m km    Resolution 1
Surya-VI CAM (8)  Speed: 50 400 km/s   End: 5.3m    Range: 16m km   WH: 15    Size: 10    TH: 420/252/126
M13 Hawk III LAM (43)  Speed: 28 800 km/s   End: 3.1m    Range: 5.4m km   WH: 4    Size: 1    TH: 307/184/92
Mistral-S CM (180)  Speed: 47 500 km/s   End: 0.8m    Range: 2.4m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 633/380/190
'Scimitar' SLAAD Anti-Ship Drone (4)  Speed: 28 800 km/s   End: 65m    Range: 112.3m km   WH: 120    Size: 50    TH: 288/172/86
RSM-26 Halberd ASM (84)  Speed: 25 600 km/s   End: 81.6m    Range: 125.4m km   WH: 32    Size: 10    TH: 273/163/81

The Rheinlands were still lightly armored for their size, in keeping with the battlecruiser concept(my contemporary DNs/SDs in that game usually had an armor belt of two or three times the size of the Rheinland's), but it was far less pronounced than with the Wardens - and far less likely that a golden-BB strike would send all those BP up in smoke.
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Offline I_Sicarius_I

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Re: Ships
« Reply #138 on: September 05, 2017, 02:44:49 AM »
Hmm your 40kt Rhineland BC was the same armour as my corvettes. Not sure which one of us is gooding here but it's interesting. For me that ship would have 24-30 armour layers. Probably 2 or 3 twin 400mm laser turrets a few single laser turrets maybe 150mm or 200mm secondaries and some AA and a bank of size 10 or 15 missile launchers. Im also 100 years in so my armour is lighter etc.
 

 

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