Author Topic: Does ship ECM reduce range of passive/active sensors on missiles?  (Read 915 times)

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Offline lennson

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If an enemy ship has ECM will it reduce the range of passive/active sensors on missiles?

(I wanted to see what would happen if I tried to fight a max tech NPC race and it turns out they have 100% ECM... so until I have some strong ECCM equipped ships I was wondering if missile buoys will still guard jump points, ignoring the ECM, or whether the missile sensors will also be useless.)
 

Offline 83athom

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Re: Does ship ECM reduce range of passive/active sensors on missiles?
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2017, 05:25:42 PM »
ECM reduces the targeting range for fire controls. Sensors are completely unaffected.
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Offline Steve Walmsley

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Re: Does ship ECM reduce range of passive/active sensors on missiles?
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2017, 06:34:27 AM »
ECM reduces the targeting range for fire controls. Sensors are completely unaffected.

This is an interesting point. Perhaps active sensors should be affected by ECM. They would still know something was there but couldn't tell the size.

I need to completely revisit Electronic warfare at some point anyway.
 
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Offline MarcAFK

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Re: Does ship ECM reduce range of passive/active sensors on missiles?
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2017, 08:09:29 AM »
What about if ECM reduces the effective tonnage of a contact by 10% per level. So not only does the displayed tonnage look like 9000 tons instead of 10000 tons, but also the actual range the contact is picked up at is the same as if it was 9000 tons anyway.
So I guess when active sensor checks are done you would look at a contact's ECM level compared to the active sensor, then look at the tonnage, adjust it for ECM, then check if it's in range ?
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Offline Steve Walmsley

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Re: Does ship ECM reduce range of passive/active sensors on missiles?
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2017, 10:57:12 AM »
What about if ECM reduces the effective tonnage of a contact by 10% per level. So not only does the displayed tonnage look like 9000 tons instead of 10000 tons, but also the actual range the contact is picked up at is the same as if it was 9000 tons anyway.
So I guess when active sensor checks are done you would look at a contact's ECM level compared to the active sensor, then look at the tonnage, adjust it for ECM, then check if it's in range ?

That is effectively the same mechanics as the existing cloak technology. Although I guess I could combine them both into EW.
 

Offline 83athom

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Re: Does ship ECM reduce range of passive/active sensors on missiles?
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2017, 01:31:20 PM »
I prefer the thought that ECM would reduce the range of contact without effecting the "visible tonnage". How about changing it so ECM can be detected by EM sensors, but can also be toggled like active sensors. Cloaking should still be its own technology as it doesn't always correlate to just electronic warfare, but armor and materials as well. Maybe you could even add an electronic warfare skill that adjusts the effectiveness of ECM and ECCM.
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Offline Garfunkel

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Re: Does ship ECM reduce range of passive/active sensors on missiles?
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2017, 04:49:48 PM »
ECM does not hide anything, so it should be mixed or combined with cloaking. I would prefer it to be more "realistic". The current system is a simplification but works well - ECM reduces the range of fire controls until they "burn" through the electronic haze and ECCM counters that. Having worked on that field once upon time, that's a pretty good approximation of the system.

ECM really has two functions - to create white noise so that sensors can't make out the details and then jamming fire controls so that they cannot achieve target lock and/or guide missiles to target. I don't know if it is possible to put the white noise effect in Aurora.
 
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Offline Thismare89

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Re: Does ship ECM reduce range of passive/active sensors on missiles?
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2017, 05:54:30 AM »
I have no idea of it.
 

Seolferwulf

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Quote from: Garfunkel link=topic=9345. msg101148#msg101148 date=1486766988
ECM does not hide anything, so it should be mixed or combined with cloaking.  I would prefer it to be more "realistic".  The current system is a simplification but works well - ECM reduces the range of fire controls until they "burn" through the electronic haze and ECCM counters that.  Having worked on that field once upon time, that's a pretty good approximation of the system.

ECM really has two functions - to create white noise so that sensors can't make out the details and then jamming fire controls so that they cannot achieve target lock and/or guide missiles to target.  I don't know if it is possible to put the white noise effect in Aurora.

Regarding the white noise effect, I could imagine the enemy's position being approximated within an area.
So instead of an exact position with the type of the enemy ship you'd get a large area and the information of "something" being there.
 

Offline Iranon

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Current split between ECM and cloaking seems good and halfway realistic to me, I wouldn't extend ECM to affect detection.

Imo, Cloaking has bigger problems than ECM as currently implemented: most of the time, splitting things into smaller packages is more efficient than cloaking/thermal reduction tech. While the upcoming version includes some additional economies of scale, I doubt this will change significantly.
Currently there are niche uses: you can split up a destroyer's armament over a squadron of fighters/FACs instead of fitting stealth tech, but you can't do that if the payload is one huge sensor. One stealthed sensor vessel coordinating fighters/FACs is quite effective, but with the upcoming change to sensor scaling that will probably not be worth the investment.
 

Offline iceball3

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Re: Does ship ECM reduce range of passive/active sensors on missiles?
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2017, 10:58:10 AM »
Current split between ECM and cloaking seems good and halfway realistic to me, I wouldn't extend ECM to affect detection.

Imo, Cloaking has bigger problems than ECM as currently implemented: most of the time, splitting things into smaller packages is more efficient than cloaking/thermal reduction tech. While the upcoming version includes some additional economies of scale, I doubt this will change significantly.
Currently there are niche uses: you can split up a destroyer's armament over a squadron of fighters/FACs instead of fitting stealth tech, but you can't do that if the payload is one huge sensor. One stealthed sensor vessel coordinating fighters/FACs is quite effective, but with the upcoming change to sensor scaling that will probably not be worth the investment.
It would be rather interesting if cloaking tech flatly reduced the range of active sensors trying to see it by a percentage, sort of like how ECM affects fire control.
It'd make it possible to ingress into the currently impenetrable resolution 1 bubble that commands the near-combat meta, while making higher resolution sensors a touch more valuable, as they'll counter the range-reducing effects of cloak by their potency versus whatever they're sized to detect.
 

Offline Detros

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Re: Does ship ECM reduce range of passive/active sensors on missiles?
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2017, 12:01:18 PM »
It would be rather interesting if cloaking tech flatly reduced the range of active sensors trying to see it by a percentage, sort of like how ECM affects fire control.
It'd make it possible to ingress into the currently impenetrable resolution 1 bubble that commands the near-combat meta, while making higher resolution sensors a touch more valuable, as they'll counter the range-reducing effects of cloak by their potency versus whatever they're sized to detect.
"A Cloaking Device will reduce enemy Active Search Sensor range against a ship equipped with it."
What else should it do??
 

Offline iceball3

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Re: Does ship ECM reduce range of passive/active sensors on missiles?
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2017, 02:45:37 PM »
"A Cloaking Device will reduce enemy Active Search Sensor range against a ship equipped with it."
What else should it do??
It works currently by making the ship appear "smaller" to enemy sensors. This means, for the most part, they're completely ineffective against low resolution sensors.
 

Offline MarcAFK

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Re: Does ship ECM reduce range of passive/active sensors on missiles?
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2017, 07:44:54 AM »
I like the percentage idea.
" Why is this godforsaken hellhole worth dying for? "
". . .  We know nothing about them, their language, their history or what they look like.  But we can assume this.  They stand for everything we don't stand for.  Also they told me you guys look like dorks. "
"Stop exploding, you cowards.  "
 

 

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