Author Topic: NPR Fighters Reload Time  (Read 3425 times)

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Offline Steve Walmsley (OP)

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NPR Fighters Reload Time
« on: April 04, 2015, 05:11:41 AM »
I've just witnessed the first NPR carrier-launched fighter strike in Aurora history :)

However, I noticed what is technically a bug but now I am wondering whether to leave it in. I'm interested to hear opinions.

Box launchers are "hangar reload only", which means they can be reloaded in a hangar or at maintenance facilities. When the recharge function checks box launchers that have fired, it checks first to see if the mounting ship is in a hangar and then for any maint facilities in the same location. However, within that function is a flag that states that NPRs don't have to check for maint facilities.

Which means the fighters effectively recharge their box launchers on the way back to the carrier (because they are not in a hangar and don't require maint facilities) and then reload ordnance the instant they land, meaning no turnaround time on the carrier. I can fix that but one option is to leave it in, which gives NPRs an edge to compensate for the lack of a flexible human brain :)

Opinions?
 

Offline GreatTuna

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Re: NPR Fighters Reload Time
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2015, 06:30:42 AM »
Leave it.

Not that it's going to help them though ;), but still, any option that makes NPR harder is better for them.
 

Offline MarcAFK

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Re: NPR Fighters Reload Time
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2015, 07:23:58 AM »
Leave it in, if it becomes a problem in the future then fix it, you'll be the first one to find out if it gives them too much of an advantage :p
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Offline alex_brunius

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Re: NPR Fighters Reload Time
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2015, 08:09:20 AM »
I prefer you fix the bug since it's hard to explain away instant reloads in the storys we write. As long as they still need to wait the full time when launching right next to their mothership it cant lead to very strange results so either way works.
 

Offline Kolyin

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Re: NPR Fighters Reload Time
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2015, 08:37:56 AM »
Leave it. 

It sounds like a fun new complication.   
« Last Edit: April 04, 2015, 11:58:30 AM by Kolyin »
 

Offline Ostia

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Re: NPR Fighters Reload Time
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2015, 09:15:02 AM »
Fix it.

One of these days the NPRs become unbeatable with all the advantages they get.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2015, 09:55:22 AM by Ostia »
 

Offline Prince of Space

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Re: NPR Fighters Reload Time
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2015, 09:18:58 AM »
I'm with alex on this one: I'd prefer the bug get fixed.

Most of the NPR rules exceptions take place outside of the player's sight, but the behavior of enemy ships in combat is one of the most scrutinized areas of the game. I would expect some clunky explanations to work their way into the fiction if the bug remains.

Are we going to see the results of this bug in the Rigellian campaign? How did you address it narratively?
 

Offline Steve Walmsley (OP)

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Re: NPR Fighters Reload Time
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2015, 09:25:20 AM »
I'm with alex on this one: I'd prefer the bug get fixed.

Most of the NPR rules exceptions take place outside of the player's sight, but the behavior of enemy ships in combat is one of the most scrutinized areas of the game. I would expect some clunky explanations to work their way into the fiction if the bug remains.

Are we going to see the results of this bug in the Rigellian campaign? How did you address it narratively?

The narrative aspect is a good point, although in most cases you won't be able to track the fighters to and from the carrier due to their small size, so you wouldn't actually 'see' it.

Bear in mind that NPR FACs have been working this way for years and no one noticed yet :)

In the case of the Rigellian campaign, it didn't affect the storyline or the Rigellian view of the situation.
 

Offline Brian Neumann

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Re: NPR Fighters Reload Time
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2015, 12:49:53 PM »
For now I would leave it in.  While having the fighters reload extra fast may seem like a huge advantage, I don't think it really is.  Most fighters carry smaller sized missiles (3-6 msp)  that can be reloaded in under an hour (generally around 30 minutes).  The flight time for those same fighters is generally around 8-12 hours.  As long as the time in flight from firing their missiles is greater than the reloading time they are getting a small advantage.  Assuming a flight time of 3 hours returning to base and a 30 minute time frame for the reloading then the difference between flying 3 hours and reloading for 30 minutes vs. flying of 3 hours and immediately being able to return for a second flight is only about 15% faster.

As for noting the difference in after action reports, it shouldn't make much difference.  Something as small as fighters usually can't be seen at the kind of ranges we are talking about.  The fighters would show up on the sensors, fire their missiles and then leave.  At some point their signatures would disappear, then probably several hours later they would reappear when returning for a second strike.  If you have sensors able to see the entire flight time and the fighters base then it might be an issue, however most times that this would happen would be because the flight times were really short.  If they are that short then there will probably be some delay between landing and completing the reload time that would allow the fighters to launch and attack again.

Brian
 

Offline Vandermeer

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Re: NPR Fighters Reload Time
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2015, 01:33:29 PM »
I wasn't sure which direction I would like better. After a day I am now leaning towards fixing it, as long as there isn't any sizable trouble involved in doing that.
Normally I am fine with some extra challenges, but generally I don't like when this improvement comes from cheating and illegal bonuses really, instead of a genuinely improved AI that abides the rules, but applies them better. In this case especially it might stand out for me, because future will have me set up battles carrier vs. carrier with the NPRs, where the reloading difference might eventually start to show and be frustrating.
I notice though that fixing this might be intensive, and since it might still be ok gameplay wise (can't really decide before seeing it happen live), I would vote to only remove it if it is easily done. Otherwise we can just alpha test this here, and then see if it needs to be taken care of at a later update if it turns out too much.
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Offline papent

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Re: NPR Fighters Reload Time
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2015, 08:33:35 AM »
Leave it in.

I haven't and I haven't read anything from anybody about noticing this behavior before with FAC's and it is less prone to cause additional issues.

i never had a carrier taken down while reloading a strike package. it highly unlikely for it to happen to an AI, plus missile reload time on a fighter is below an half hour on average. this is a non issue in my view
« Last Edit: April 07, 2015, 09:34:37 AM by papent »
In my humble opinion anything that could be considered a balance issue is a moot point unless the AI utilize it against you because otherwise it's an exploit you willing choose to use to game the system. 
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Offline alex_brunius

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Re: NPR Fighters Reload Time
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2015, 10:05:37 AM »
Bear in mind that NPR FACs have been working this way for years and no one noticed yet :)

Or some people noticed but didn't think it was important enough to bug report or write on the forums about  ::)

Don't look at me and my cruiser sized dedicated anti-FAC/spoiler senor arrays, no I'm innocent...  ;D


But yeah, fix if it's simple to do seems to be the reasonable action here.
 

Offline SteelChicken

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Re: NPR Fighters Reload Time
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2015, 11:28:08 AM »
Or some people noticed but didn't think it was important enough to bug report or write on the forums about  ::)

But yeah, fix if it's simple to do seems to be the reasonable action here.

Yep.  Noticed, just didn't care.  Wrote it off as a minor bug.
 

Offline TT

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Re: NPR Fighters Reload Time
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2015, 12:11:28 PM »
Make it a setup option when you start the game. No reason not to be able to choose at game launch right?
 

Offline linkxsc

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Re: NPR Fighters Reload Time
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2015, 07:51:25 AM »
I like the idea of a checkbox to turn it on or off. And perhaps have it editable after a game is already going if possible.