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New Players > The Academy
AMM or PD or both
undercovergeek:
I have come across a second set of baddies - this second one seems to favour missiles as opposed to my raiders who only seem to fire energy weapons - my fleet is currently not set up to defend itself from missiles should the cold war go hot
Is the consensus to go for AMM or PD
or as has only just occurred to me does one design an AMM ship and leave the PD on the surrounding vessels?
what say you?
Arwyn:
From a ship perspective, picking one role is preferred. So, if your doing AMMs, then thats it. If beam PD, thats all that ship should mount.
That being said, I think you will see most folks layer defenses.
AMMs are pretty poor early on, but get increasingly better as tech goes up. So early on, you might only used beams for PD, but as the tech gets better its pretty common to use both. AMMs tend to be long distance, and then beams as you get closer.
If your current fleet tech is mostly beam based, which is what it sounds like, I would start there and look at beam based PD. What techs do you run right now? Railgun? Laser?
undercovergeek:
--- Quote from: Arwyn on March 19, 2024, 10:26:34 AM ---From a ship perspective, picking one role is preferred. So, if your doing AMMs, then thats it. If beam PD, thats all that ship should mount.
That being said, I think you will see most folks layer defenses.
AMMs are pretty poor early on, but get increasingly better as tech goes up. So early on, you might only used beams for PD, but as the tech gets better its pretty common to use both. AMMs tend to be long distance, and then beams as you get closer.
If your current fleet tech is mostly beam based, which is what it sounds like, I would start there and look at beam based PD. What techs do you run right now? Railgun? Laser?
--- End quote ---
Other way round - my tech is all missiles with some early beam weapons for close range combat
undercovergeek:
--- Quote from: Arwyn on March 19, 2024, 10:26:34 AM ---From a ship perspective, picking one role is preferred. So, if your doing AMMs, then thats it. If beam PD, thats all that ship should mount.
That being said, I think you will see most folks layer defenses.
AMMs are pretty poor early on, but get increasingly better as tech goes up. So early on, you might only used beams for PD, but as the tech gets better its pretty common to use both. AMMs tend to be long distance, and then beams as you get closer.
If your current fleet tech is mostly beam based, which is what it sounds like, I would start there and look at beam based PD. What techs do you run right now? Railgun? Laser?
--- End quote ---
From a AMM ship point of view - does it do its thing automatically or do you designate the incoming missiles to the fire controller like an enemy ship
Arwyn:
Ah, gotcha.
Okay, if your already into the missile tech, AMM's are a logical follow up. The big thing is the speed of the enemy missiles, and your engine power tech. For AMMs, you want the fastest missiles you can, so the 'Maximum Engine Power Modifier' in the Power and Propulsion tree is important. The more power you can cram into an AMM, the better.
Just as an example, lets assume the enemy missiles have a speed of 10,000 km/s.
Speed is going to be part of the chance to hit, and you want to cram the biggest engine you can into that AMM, with as much speed as you can get out it. Then enough warhead to do 1pt of damage. And then enough fuel to get 3km or better range.
So, for a low tech example, my current new game, I can do 400% engine power, and with Nuclear Thermal engines. I can build an AMM with the following, 0.7MSP for engine at 400% power, .25MSP for the warhead, and 0.05 for fuel. This gets me an AMM that has 18,000 km/s and a chance to hit at 10k km/s missile of..... 18% which isnt great. Ideally you want something more like 25% or better.
So based on your chance to hit, you want to mount missile launchers and fire controls that get you close to 100% chance to intercept as you can. In my case, that would be 1 FC and 5 launchers, and my PD settings on the FC would be 5 missiles per target. Not great, but its something.
After the AMMs, your beams are your next layer of defense.
Lasers have the best range, but a low number of shots, and can be mounted in turrets.
Railguns are cheap, decent range, have a lot of shots, but cant be mounted in turrets, so are limited to ships speed for tracking.
Gauss guns are short range, can have a good rate of fire, can be mounted in turrets.
CIWS are based on your Gauss tech, and are close in defenses for the mounting ship only.
Most folks will pick lasers or railguns and then gauss for beam PD.
Lasers are tech point intensive, and have a low rate of fire early on (determined by capacitor tech) but get increasingly better as the game goes on and the tech goes up.
Railguns are cheap, shoot a lot, but are also affected by capacitor tech determining their ROF, but have limited tracking speed. Early on, these are decent PD weapons, but as the game goes on and speeds increase, they fall off quickly for PD.
As an example, my low tech game, my railguns are 10cm, have a range of 10,000 a tracking speed of 2154 km/s (ship speed) and a ROF of 10. That means, I am going to get one shot an any enemy inbounds, and my chance to hit is pretty poor, but I am throwing 4 shots at two missiles each, with a good chance to hit overall (theoretically).
Gauss are pretty much the best close in beam PD, but are very tech intensive to get there. Early on, you want to get to a ROF of 3 as soon as you can, and high tracking speed as soon as you can. You can overbuild your turrets to make of for lower tracking speed, but that makes the turrets bigger and you wont be able to carry as many.
As an example, once again from my low tech game, my Gauss equipped destroyer escorts mount two gauss turrets with two guns each. Each gun has an ROF of 5 and shoots twice, so two guns gets me 4 shots per target, every 5 seconds, and they have 20,000 km range. Their fire control has a TS of 8,000, and the turrets are overbuilt for a TS of 16,000. My FC PD is set for 'Ranged Defensive Fire, Shots per Target 4'. So my gauss turrets can engage an enemy salvo twice, due to the range (20k) and the ROF (5). And they have a good chance to hit two missiles each time.
All of the above is why folks layer. Missiles can engage much further out (3k to 4k) so they have more chances to intercept (poorly in my case). Surviving missiles get engaged at 20,000 km by my Gauss turrets, then again at 10,000 by my railguns and Gauss again. Any survivors then get to potentially slam into my hull. :)
Against an opponent of similar tech, and a low number of launchers, these defenses will help. Against a higher tech opponent, these defenses degrade quickly. Massed box launchers against this tech = a really bad day.
No matter how good your defense layers are, missiles WILL get through. RNG and the new missile rules means you are going to get leakers, so expect some missiles will get through and hit you. Armor and shield accordingly.
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