Author Topic: Ground combat - count allied forces together  (Read 2075 times)

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Offline Garfunkel (OP)

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Ground combat - count allied forces together
« on: October 22, 2014, 11:37:08 AM »
So I just remembered that a year ago I ran a community game over at RPGCodex and the players of course launched a massive WW3 on Earth, of course, with multiple allied factions fighting a single defending one.

At which point I found out that Aurora does not calculate 3-way combat (even if two of them are allied) together but separately. This means that even if Faction A and Faction B outnumber Faction C, they cannot subdue that faction unless I use SM to transfer ownership of Faction B's ground units to Faction A for the duration of the combat. Which of course leaves Faction B in a very dangerous position if Faction D decides to invade at that point. Not much of an issue if I'm controlling all factions but in a community game...  :P

So I suggest that - if at all possible - the game could check the factions diplomatic status before resolving ground combat and treat allied faction's troops as a single attack/defence strength.

This might require redoing the surrender mechanics, so that spoils of war are divided equally but that's something that can also be sorted through SM in case it's too difficult/troublesome to sort out automagically.
 

Offline swarm_sadist

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Re: Ground combat - count allied forces together
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2014, 08:09:07 PM »
So I suggest that - if at all possible - the game could check the factions diplomatic status before resolving ground combat and treat allied faction's troops as a single attack/defence strength.

This might require redoing the surrender mechanics, so that spoils of war are divided equally but that's something that can also be sorted through SM in case it's too difficult/troublesome to sort out automagically.
Currently, the entire ground force attacks as one. So while two allied factions are not calculated together, they still damage the enemy's units (AFAIK).
 

Offline MarcAFK

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Re: Ground combat - count allied forces together
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2014, 12:35:32 AM »
So their attacks are combined, but they have to defend separately ?
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Offline Garfunkel (OP)

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Re: Ground combat - count allied forces together
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2014, 09:48:01 AM »
Sorry but that's not true.

Both attacks and defend are separate. Unless this was changed in 6.4 and I didn't notice.
 

Offline swarm_sadist

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Re: Ground combat - count allied forces together
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2014, 05:28:09 PM »
Sorry but that's not true.

Both attacks and defend are separate. Unless this was changed in 6.4 and I didn't notice.
Is there a benefit to them being added together as opposed to two separate forces? After all, wouldn't two forces attacking the same target one after the other be the same as both forces combined into one dice roll?
 

Offline sublight

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Re: Ground combat - count allied forces together
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2014, 06:26:26 PM »
Is there a benefit to them being added together as opposed to two separate forces? After all, wouldn't two forces attacking the same target one after the other be the same as both forces combined into one dice roll?
The benefit is it prevents the defender from inflicting damage twice, once against each attacker. Since the damage the defender deals is spread over two armies this still leaves a net benefit to attacking with an ally verse having the ally sit out, but the advantage is much smaller than one might first think.

I think the way things are now two identical forces attacking separately are only about +41% more combat effective (square root 2) over one sitting out the fight, compared to being +100% more effective if the forces were combined.
 

Offline Garfunkel (OP)

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Re: Ground combat - count allied forces together
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2014, 06:45:43 PM »
Not only does defender get to "attack" twice but the combat ratio will be more beneficial, since the attacking forces are counted separately. That significantly affects the math under the hood.

Example: Faction A has strength 3, Faction B has strength 1 and Faction C has strength 2.

If A and B attack C, you would expect the combat ratio to be 4vs2 but it's actually 3vs2 and 1vs2, separately. Which means that Faction will eventually win over Faction C, but not before Faction B has been grinded to nothing. And to make things worse, the attack by Faction B will most likely not cause much - if any - damage to Faction C because the combat is so against them.
 

Offline ardem

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Re: Ground combat - count allied forces together
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2014, 09:22:45 PM »
The only way to get around this if it is this is all human, is for the players to detach its ground units to the other faction. But is you have AI involved you never get your units back.