Author Topic: newbie questions about getting economy kick-started  (Read 2029 times)

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Offline joeclark77 (OP)

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newbie questions about getting economy kick-started
« on: June 08, 2013, 03:14:34 AM »
Just installed the game yesterday, did a couple of tutorials, and am now well into game #3.   I was wondering if you all would like to tell me how you get your production going in the beginning of the game.   I guess what you need is lots of auto-mines to strip the comets and asteroids as fast as possible, right?  Should I have started from day 1 simply convering Earth's normal mines to auto-mines?  Because I tried building new ones from scratch, and it took me ten years before I had doubled the 65 or so I started out with.   Should I avoid the distraction of colonies early on, or invest resources in building a few?  And what else do you invest in?  I had Earth spending 15% on factories, 15% on mines, and the rest on my other demands (mostly infrastructure and auto-mines, plus a few mass drivers).   I never built any research labs.   I did expand my shipyards on "continuous".   I carted some mines to two colonies, but I didn't build factories or anything else there. . .  figured it was easier to build on Earth and ship modules to the planets.

I guess what I'm looking for is a kind of walk-through of the steps you take in the first ten years or so to get the industrial engine up and running.
 

Offline Varee

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Re: newbie questions about getting economy kick-started
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2013, 03:52:27 AM »
The build is no exact but you can modify it to your own stule of play. If you are looking to go full industrial set up auto mine and fac at around 25-30 percent then use 30-40 percent to convert mine to auto if you are short on workforce. The rest can be use on labs , academy or mass driver. Dont worry too much about colonising in the first few year. Take this tome to get geo survey of planets and asteriod to find a mining colony. Youmight want to colonise luna or mars first to booast pop growth or else just pop auto mine on colony with the mineral you need to make more mine and fac.

If you wan you can also go 30 lab and fac and 20 auto min and convert. This is good if you got a high bonus c&p sciencetist. Dont worry about mKing ships too much at first. A scout for geo and one for jump point is ok. You might need a frigate if your civ decide they want to make colony ship or else just contract em to do your work in the first years
 

Offline Gump

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Re: newbie questions about getting economy kick-started
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2013, 06:56:26 AM »
.....Youmight want to colonise luna or mars first ......



I've seen a few people recommend this, but if Mars & Luna have no, or poor, mineral resources what do you put in the colonies?
 

Offline Varee

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Re: newbie questions about getting economy kick-started
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2013, 09:06:29 AM »
I've seen a few people recommend this, but if Mars & Luna have no, or poor, mineral resources what do you put in the colonies?
It not really for mining, it colony for civ trade and for pop growth. The more pop on a planet, the slower the pop grow. On a small colony, it 10% an earth it might be like 4 %. Then there also trading for money, mar and luna are closest place, so more more trade make more money. That what i used the colo for anyway
 

Offline joeclark77 (OP)

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Re: newbie questions about getting economy kick-started
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2013, 03:38:21 PM »
Quote from: Varee link=topic=6196. msg63309#msg63309 date=1370700389
It not really for mining, it colony for civ trade and for pop growth.  The more pop on a planet, the slower the pop grow.  On a small colony, it 10% an earth it might be like 4 %.  Then there also trading for money, mar and luna are closest place, so more more trade make more money.  That what i used the colo for anyway
In my last game, Luna and Mars had garbage so I colonized Ganymede (cost 4. 0) to start, then a 2. 0 in a neighboring system.  How many millions do you usually send to a new colony before you leave it to civilian traffic?

Also, do I understand correctly that civilian lines don't use your ship designs anymore?  The more recent tutorial seems to contradict the earlier one on that point.
 

Offline Brian Neumann

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Re: newbie questions about getting economy kick-started
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2013, 04:20:12 PM »
1.)  How big a population needs to be toget the civilians building colony ships and moving colonists/infastructure is somewhat up to chance.  The minimum I have ever seen however is at least 1 million pop on a second planet.  The farther the 2nd planet is from your home world the more it does seem to take.  If at all possible try to colonize a low cost (<2) moon.  Then make sure to use small increments when you advance time.  Most people seem to like the 8 hour increment for boosting your civilians the most.  The reason is that the civilian order code checks 1 each time tick.  If you have a short run and the cargo can be ofloaded in 8 hours then 1 single ship will make about 2 trips each day.  If you use the 5 day increment then you would only be getting 1 trip every 5 days.  The taxes you get are based on the number of trips.  Also the more trips the civilians make, the more money they get which can then be invested by them in more ships, ect.

2.)  You are correct in that civilians make their own ship designs.  They do not use your designs.  In addition when a ship gets old enough they will scrap it.  This is actually a big improvement on the old setup where you would have ancient ships with 1st gen engines that moved horribly slowly when your modern ships would move 4-5 times faster.  It also helps keep the civilians from spamming the computer with lots of checks every time you increment things.

Brian
 

Offline Starfyre

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Re: newbie questions about getting economy kick-started
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2013, 07:39:14 PM »
Your economy doesn't expand quickly, really.  even with focusing, it's generally only a few % a year, but that really adds up over time.  Earth is going to be the primary focus of your production economy for quite some time, simply because of how long it takes to build new facilities, and taking production away from earth makes it that much slower.  But yeah, spamming mines/automines really are the way to go, because if anything gets in the way of your expansion it's the mineral crunch.

1.  I leave off my first colony decision until I complete my geosurvey of the system.  if there's minerals on mars, I colonize mars.  if there's luna, I colonize there.  if none, I colonize luna because they're closer.  even if you don't make much money, you're growing people there and more importantly a civilian trading structure.  being able to issue civvie contracts to move stuff greatly simplifies colony micro from faffing about with freighters and routing and waypoints and such to a simple 'supply automine x40' order in one place and 'demand automine x10' order in four other places.  civvie ships also create infrastructure on their own when trading, which means that you no longer need to sink thousands of duranium on that to get a colony up to a usable pop.

2.  the mineral crunch.  Earth is highly limited.  you're going to run out of at least a couple things with alarming speed.  There are four minerals you *must* ensure steady supplies of immediately.
1.  duranium.  without this, you can't build anything.  as much as possible, as soon as possible
2.  corundium.  the second critical mineral for mines.  if you get blocked on this, it makes digging out of the mineral crunch that much harder
3.  sorium.  no fuel, no ships, no empire.  the spice must flow.
4.  gallicite.  critical mineral for engines.  if you do any major construction, you will use mountains of this stuff.  it doesn't matter how much you have in your stockpiles, you need more.  especially if you're going missile-heavy.  that 3 gallicite per missile doesn't seem like much, until you need to replace a couple thousand expended missiles.

3.  targetted research.  If you've got the mercassium, population, and income stream to spare, build more research plexes.  always build more research plexes.  The power of the science firehose *cannot* be overstated for all aspects of your empire, despite the usual focus on how it lets you blow things up better.  Unless there's a specific hole in my tech base, or an obvious deficiency in combat power to repair, I mainline mining, construction, and research efficiency techs.  if I have 100 automines, and research from 10->12 tons mining efficiency, that's like having just built 20 free automines at the cost of a few thousand racial wealth.  And unless you're going full bore on everything, you have wealth to burn.  And even if you don't, there's a tech that makes racial wealth better.  If there's anything that can make your industry explode, it's that.

EDIT: some more notes, because I realize I'd forgotten some stuff after I hit post.  Obviously, wait until earth's minerals are mostly exhausted before converting over, but mars/luna mineral surveys also tend to determine whether or not I convert regular mines to automines.  if they've got good deposits, I just ship the mines there instead, because automines are pricy compared to the manned model.  you want a sector command as soon as possible, because it stacks with planetary governor's bonuses.  Planetary governors are awesome.  They're basically free improvements for whatever they have bonuses for.  Geosurvey team everything you put a colony on.  They aren't as reliably good as they used to be, but you can still get lucky.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2013, 07:52:06 PM by Starfyre »
 

Offline Erik L

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Re: newbie questions about getting economy kick-started
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2013, 08:08:41 PM »
I always dedicate a 10% construction capacity job to building 1000 CF. This gives me a steadily increasing construction capacity, and the ability to ship some out to a colony if needed.

Offline joeclark77 (OP)

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Re: newbie questions about getting economy kick-started
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2013, 08:45:42 PM »
Quote from: Starfyre link=topic=6196. msg63313#msg63313 date=1370738354
Your economy doesn't expand quickly, really.   even with focusing, it's generally only a few % a year, but that really adds up over time.
I'm starting to figure out that this game is played in the reeeeallly long term.   OK, I get it.


Quote from: Starfyre link=topic=6196. msg63313#msg63313 date=1370738354
3.   targetted research.   If you've got the mercassium, population, and income stream to spare, build more research plexes.   always build more research plexes.   The power of the science firehose *cannot* be overstated for all aspects of your empire, despite the usual focus on how it lets you blow things up better.   Unless there's a specific hole in my tech base, or an obvious deficiency in combat power to repair, I mainline mining, construction, and research efficiency techs.   if I have 100 automines, and research from 10->12 tons mining efficiency, that's like having just built 20 free automines at the cost of a few thousand racial wealth.   And unless you're going full bore on everything, you have wealth to burn.   And even if you don't, there's a tech that makes racial wealth better.   If there's anything that can make your industry explode, it's that.

I think I'm missing something here: Is it possible to speed up research by expending wealth?  Or can I get research labs for wealth?  I found that they take quite a lot of build points to make new ones at the factories.   Yes, I did invest a substantial amount of my starting RP in the mining and research bonuses.
 

Offline Starfyre

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Re: newbie questions about getting economy kick-started
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2013, 09:23:36 PM »
I think I'm missing something here: Is it possible to speed up research by expending wealth?  Or can I get research labs for wealth?  I found that they take quite a lot of build points to make new ones at the factories.   Yes, I did invest a substantial amount of my starting RP in the mining and research bonuses.

nah. be nice if you could above and beyond what labs already spend for their use, but unless you're undergoing massive utilization in all industries, all yards, and all labs, you're generally looking for excuses to set excess racial wealth on fire.  just saying that the costs of running research labs are minimal compared to their boons.
 

Offline joeclark77 (OP)

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Re: newbie questions about getting economy kick-started
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2013, 09:52:25 PM »
Quote from: Starfyre link=topic=6196. msg63318#msg63318 date=1370744616
nah.  be nice if you could above and beyond what labs already spend for their use, but unless you're undergoing massive utilization in all industries, all yards, and all labs, you're generally looking for excuses to set excess racial wealth on fire.   just saying that the costs of running research labs are minimal compared to their boons.
Oh, I didn't know they even had a cost!  I guess I haven't run out of money yet.
 

Offline Starfyre

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Re: newbie questions about getting economy kick-started
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2013, 10:01:06 PM »
yup.  1 for 1 ratio for every BP/RP spent in construction and research.  ground units also have some maintenence, but it's pocket change.