Mines and Minefields

[Ulzgoroth]

Because I made a mistake when originally posting and then corrected it via edit 

That is a change, yeah.  Still though, shouldn't the buoy stage be the second one, with the first being a delivery rocket and the last being the attack vehicle?

[liveware (OP)]

I changed my mind about how I wanted the mine to operate.

1. Deploy from ship.
2. Close to target.
3. Deliver payload.

[Draco_Argentum]

I see mine designs are a buoy that releases missiles with their own active sensors.  Does anyone know if you can do a buoy that releases some sensorless missiles along with another buoy to guide them?

[consiefe]

I see mine designs are a buoy that releases missiles with their own active sensors.  Does anyone know if you can do a buoy that releases some sensorless missiles along with another buoy to guide them?

I think that was possible in VB6. But it needs proper testing before the answer for C#. Even if isn't possible now, it might be in the future versions.

[liveware (OP)]

I heard this does not work in C# but I cannot confirm.

[liveware (OP)]

Is it necessary to keep the ship which launches mines continuously deployed near the mines to keep the mines active? They seem to disappear for me after a while and I'm trying to determine why.

[consiefe]

Can you please share each stage of your design?

[liveware (OP)]

Code: [Select]

3rd Stage: Vengeance II Warhead
Missile Size: 14.0104 MSP  (35.02600 Tons)     Warhead: 15    Radiation Damage: 15    Manoeuvre Rating: 20
Speed: 22,169 km/s     Fuel: 1     Flight Time: 0.7 seconds     Range: 15,518 km
Active Sensor Strength: 0.2   EM Sensitivity Modifier: 8
Resolution: 100    Maximum Range vs 5000 ton object (or larger): 3,312,464 km
ECM Modifier: 10%     ECCM Modifier: 10%
Cost Per Missile: 15.71     Development Cost: 1,571
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 443.4%   3k km/s 147.8%   5k km/s 88.7%   10k km/s 44.3%

Materials Required
Corbomite  1
Tritanium  3.75
Boronide  0.12
Uridium  0.2
Gallicite  10.64
Fuel:  1

##################
2nd Stage: Vengeance II Missile
Missile Size: 15.5396 MSP  (38.84900 Tons)     Warhead: 0    Radiation Damage: 0    Manoeuvre Rating: 10
Speed: 42,228 km/s     Fuel: 324     Flight Time: 3 minutes     Range: 6.41m km
Active Sensor Strength: 0.2   EM Sensitivity Modifier: 8
Resolution: 100    Maximum Range vs 5000 ton object (or larger): 3,312,464 km
Cost Per Missile: 16.72     Development Cost: 1,672
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 422.3%   3k km/s 140.8%   5k km/s 84.5%   10k km/s 42.2%

Materials Required
Boronide  0.12
Uridium  0.2
Gallicite  16.40
Fuel:  324


###############
1st Stage: Vengeance IIB Mine
Missile Size: 1 MSP  (2.5 Tons)     Warhead: 0    Radiation Damage: 0    Manoeuvre Rating: 10
Speed: 0 km/s     Fuel: 150     Flight Time: 1 seconds     Range: 0 km
Active Sensor Strength: 0.2   EM Sensitivity Modifier: 8
Resolution: 100    Maximum Range vs 5000 ton object (or larger): 3,312,464 km
Cost Per Missile: 0.32     Development Cost: 32
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 0%   3k km/s 0%   5k km/s 0%   10k km/s 0%

Materials Required
Boronide  0.12
Uridium  0.2
Fuel:  150

In total, the above amount to a size 30 missile, which when deployed at a waypoint, lay in wait for an enemy and then trigger the 2nd stage. The 2nd stage closes range to the target and then the 3rd stage delivers the munition.

Current design is as stated in quote above... I should probably pick a less politically volatile name for the thing now that I've had time to think about it.

Edit: The minelayer design is below, if that helps:

Code: [Select]

Menelaus class Minelayer      10,000 tons       246 Crew       1,142.2 BP       TCS 200    TH 240    EM 0
2400 km/s      Armour 1-41       Shields 0-0       HTK 65      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 18      PPV 30
Maint Life 3.61 Years     MSP 1,006    AFR 94%    IFR 1.3%    1YR 119    5YR 1,788    Max Repair 269.68 MSP
Magazine 790   
Commander    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 9 months    Morale Check Required   

Surrency & Weatherholtz Nuclear Pulse Engine  EP160.00 (3)    Power 480    Fuel Use 49.50%    Signature 80.0    Explosion 10%
Fuel Capacity 1,251,000 Litres    Range 45.5 billion km (219 days at full power)

Washington Armaments Size 30 Missile Launcher (1)     Missile Size: 30    Rate of Fire 165
Washington Armaments Mine Fire Control FC9-R1 (50%) (1)     Range 9.6m km    Resolution 1
Veangeance IIB Anti-Ship Mine (26)    Speed: 0 km/s    End: 3.2m     Range: 2.7m km    WH: 0    Size: 30    TH: 0/0/0

Marrinan & Roma Active Search Sensor AS10-R1 (50%) (1)     GPS 60     Range 10.7m km    MCR 963.4k km    Resolution 1

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes


[consiefe]

I think problem might lay in separation value for each stage. If your mine separates immaturely it expires and why first stage has fuel in it? If you share to finished version of the mine maybe we can find something.

[liveware (OP)]

I think you're right about the separation distance thing. I added fuel to the 1st stage after my original version of this 3 stage design didn't seem to be working. My assumption was that the reactor for the active sensor required fuel. This may not be the case however because I recall from some other discussion that TN reactors don't use fuel, only engines use fuel. My current version seems to work for some non-zero amount of time before it disappears.

While trying to locate my existing design, I think I found a glitch in my 2nd stage design also that was making my overall design work incorrectly. Working on developing a new version now, will post results back once finalized.

[liveware (OP)]

Alright, I've got a new 3 stage mine design finalized with my latest technology (a significant improvement over the previous designs):

Code: [Select]

Missile Size: 30.0000 MSP  (75.00000 Tons)     Warhead: 0    Radiation Damage: 0    Manoeuvre Rating: 10
Speed: 0 km/s     Fuel: 925     1st Stage Flight Time: 1 seconds    1st Stage Range: 0k km
2nd Stage Flight Time: 5 minutes    2nd Stage Range: 3.99m km
3rd Stage Flight Time: 1 seconds    3rd Stage Range: 20k km
Active Sensor Strength: 0.2   EM Sensitivity Modifier: 8
Resolution: 100    Maximum Range vs 5000 ton object (or larger): 3,312,464 km
Cost Per Missile: 34.52     Development Cost: 3,452
Second Stage: Archimedes IIC Anti-Ship Missile x1
Second Stage Separation Range: 0 km
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 0%   3k km/s 0%   5k km/s 0%   10k km/s 0%

Materials Required
Corbomite  1
Tritanium  5
Boronide  0.36
Uridium  0.6
Gallicite  27.56
Fuel:  925

I believe this will work as I intend, which can be summarized as:

1. Deploy mine from mine layer at waypoint at point blank range.
2. 1st stage does nothing until a target is detected.
3. 2nd stage activates when target appears in range and closes to PD range.
4. 3rd stage activates and closes final distance to target.

[consiefe]

At this shape, an enemy ship should come right on top of it to make it separate AFAIK. I think you should set the separation to the active sensor range. Otherwise it seems good.

[liveware (OP)]

I actually considered that and built a second variant, the Archimedes IID Anti-Ship Mine which has separation distance equal to the sensor range.

I'm still not sure either variant works. I deployed one of each at a jump point mine field and can't see any active senor ring. I would expect to see a sensor ring since each missile stage has an active sensor.

[consiefe]

It's beyond me. There was a bug related to buoy sensors but my passive surveillance buoys work fine right now. I don't if actives are affected. Please share the outcome.

[liveware (OP)]

Just combat tested against my local hostile NPR. Still no sensor rings visible and the mines do not appear to engage hostile targets. I think fuel may be required on the first stage to power the reactor. I will attempt a redesign.