Author Topic: Navy Officers, Army Officers, Civilians and Scientists  (Read 9959 times)

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Offline Steve Walmsley (OP)

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Navy Officers, Army Officers, Civilians and Scientists
« on: November 17, 2009, 11:15:45 AM »
Something regularly requested by players is splitting commanders into separate army and navy organizations and possibly into a civilian organization as well. I have decided to implement this for v4.7. Commanders, which I will refer as Leaders when talking about them as a whole, will be split into four different groups. Naval Officers, Army Officers, Civilian Administrators and Scientists. Each group will have a subset of the existing bonuses and a subset of the existing assignments, although in some cases these will overlap. Each leader type will have an increased chance of the bonuses that apply to that type. On the commanders window (now the Leaders window), there is a new dropdown above the rank structure list. This is used to change between the four different leader groups.

Naval Officers
Naval Officers will be the most similar to the existing commanders. The rank structure will be the familiar one for each theme and they will operate just as the current officers do with the exception that they can no longer be assigned to sector command, colony command or command of any ground unit. They can still be assigned to ship command, task force command, a staff officer position or as a member of a team. Because there is no longer any need to force higher level naval commanders for the purposes of colony command, the 3-1 rank ratio will extend throughout the naval rank structure and there will no longer automatically be an officer of every rank at game start. Their list of bonuses is as follows:

Communications
Crew Training
Diplomacy
Espionage
Fighter Operations
Initiative
Intelligence
Logistics
Operations
Survey
Terraforming

Army Officers
Army Officers have only four ranks. These are battalion commander, brigade commander, division commander and corps commander. At the moment there is no corps level organization in Aurora so the corps commander will function as a division commander for now. Each theme has its own names for these four ranks. For example, the US/UK is Colonel, Brigadier General, Major General and Lieutenant General; the French version is Colonel, Général de Brigade, Général de Division, Général de Corps d´Armée, etc.. These can be renamed as desired. When auto-assigning commanders, the program will assign them to the appropriate unit type, so only Colonels will command battalions, only Brigadiers will command brigades, etc.. The player can override this as desired. There are many types of battalion so the program will sort the battalion commanders by promotion score and sort the battalions by commander priority (Heavy Assault, Marine, Assault Infantry, etc.) and then match up the two lists. Because of the 4-1 ratio of battalion to brigade and brigade to division, plus the probability of independent battalions, the army officer rank structure uses a 5-1 ratio. Army officers can be assigned to ground unit command plus Espionage and Diplomacy Teams. Their bonus list is as follows:

Diplomacy
Espionage
Ground Combat
Ground Forces Training

Civilian Administrators
Civilian Administrators don't have ranks. Instead they have an Administration Rating which determines how large a population or sector a Civilian Administrator is capable of managing. The administration rating can rise through experience. A colony has an administration rating requirement equal to its thermal signature divided by 5000 (fractions rounded up). The maximum requirement is level 5. A Sector requires an administration rating one higher than that required for the largest population within the sector. Civilian administrators can be assigned to colony command or to Espionage and Diplomacy Teams. Their bonus list is as follows:

Administration
Diplomacy
Espionage
Factory Production
Ground Unit Construction Speed
Logistics
Mining
Population Growth
Shipbuilding
Terraforming
Wealth Creation

Scientists
Scientists don't have ranks. Instead, they have an Administration Rating which determines how many research facilities a Scientist is capable of managing. A scientist can manage a number of research facilities equal to his Administration Rating multiplied by five. Scientists can be assigned to Research Projects (more on this below) or to Survey and Xenoarchaeology teams. Even though Scientists (and Civilian Administrators) have only a single rank, you can rename that rank. So a Russian themed player may decide to rename Scientist as Academician for example. Their bonus list is as follows:

Administration
Research
Survey
Xenoarchaeology

The only place the four groups overlap in terms of assignments is for teams. A team can be formed using members from different leader groups, so you may have scientists and naval officers in a survey team or a mixture of naval officers, army officers and civilians in an espionage team. Only scientists have the Xenoarchaeology bonus so teams of that type will be scientist only.

Promotion Scores
Because of the changes, promotion scores will be very different and usually much lower than they are now. They will emphasise important areas for each type of leader, such as crew training for naval officers and ground combat for army officers. Some bonuses that used to be key, such as shipbuilding or research, no longer affect the promotion scores as they are restricted to Civilian Administrators and Scientists, neither of which have promotion scores. Senior naval officers will now be those best suited to commanding larger ships or task forces and will tend to have high crew training scores.

Research Teams and Research Projects
The way research is carried out is changing slightly for v4.7. At the moment, each colony uses all its research facilities on a single project, using the bonus provided by the planetary governor. In v4.7, planetary governors no longer have a research bonus. Instead, a scientist will manage each research project and a number of research facilities may be assigned to the project, up to a maximum of the scientist's administration rating multiplied by five. Each colony may have multiple research projects underway at once, each under the leadership of a different scientist.

The layout of the Research tab has changed to facilitate this. In a grid control stretching across the top is a list of current research projects, showing the tech system, the scientist leading the project, the number of research labs that have been allocated, the annual RP produced by the project team, the remaining RP for the project and the estimated completion date. Below this, is the Create New Project section where you select a Research Project, a scientist to lead it and the number of research labs you wish to allocate. The scientists are shown in a grid control with their name, research specialization, research bonus and the maximum number of research facilities they can control. The tech systems are now displayed by research area (such as Construction or Propulsion) rather than the v4.6 method of Background/Racial/Ship Systems

The Research Queue functions as before, except that a scientist will select the first project from the queue that is within the same area of specialization as the just completed project. This is to avoid projects being picked up by scientists with the wrong specialization.

[attachment=0:2ntsgmg7]NewResearch.JPG[/attachment:2ntsgmg7]
Steve
 

Offline Shinanygnz

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Re: Navy Officers, Army Officers, Civilians and Scientists
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2009, 01:31:37 PM »
Sounds very 8)

I have one minor concern, in that it's probably going to take quite a while to research some of the higher cost techs.  Whilst total overall time will actually come down (more research bonuses can apply), I might need those better engines/missiles/sensors, etc right...now.
Have you thought about a game modifier for tech costs, so you can select the level you want and the costs are multiplied by that?  E.g. if you want fast tech turnover in your game, costs x0.5 (or even less), but someone else might want to make it take longer, so x1.5 or x2

Stephen
 

Offline Kurt

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Re: Navy Officers, Army Officers, Civilians and Scientists
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2009, 02:33:59 PM »
Quote from: "Steve Walmsley"
Something regularly requested by players is splitting commanders into separate army and navy organizations and possibly into a civilian organization as well. I have decided to implement this for v4.7. Commanders, which I will refer as Leaders when talking about them as a whole, will be split into four different groups. Naval Officers, Army Officers, Civilian Administrators and Scientists. Each group will have a subset of the existing bonuses and a subset of the existing assignments, although in some cases these will overlap. Each leader type will have an increased chance of the bonuses that apply to that type. On the commanders window (now the Leaders window), there is a new dropdown above the rank structure list. This is used to change between the four different leader groups.

-snip-

Steve

Steve -

THANKYOU!

I have been asking for something like this since about two minutes after Steve introduced officers.  As always - good job!

Kurt
 

Offline welchbloke

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Re: Navy Officers, Army Officers, Civilians and Scientists
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2009, 03:12:32 PM »
Steve,
I'm going to echo both Kurt's and Stephen's sentiments; first of all a great big thank you! Secondly, I also have some concerns about how long some of the higher tech projects will take to research.  Are you going to make any changes to the required RP?
Welchbloke
 

Offline Beersatron

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Re: Navy Officers, Army Officers, Civilians and Scientists
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2009, 05:17:15 PM »
Waresky may just explode with the change to research!  :D

Can you assign all research labs to a single project without assigning a lead scientist? So, you could focus all your efforts on the one goal - its just going to be hard to find a scientist who has the wherewithal to run such a large project.
 

Offline welchbloke

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Re: Navy Officers, Army Officers, Civilians and Scientists
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2009, 05:22:31 PM »
Quote from: "Beersatron"
Waresky may just explode with the change to research!  :D  The last thing we need is a for him to reach critical mass and detonate  :mrgreen:
Welchbloke
 

Offline schroeam

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Re: Navy Officers, Army Officers, Civilians and Scientists
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2009, 06:15:52 PM »
Steve,

I would also like to say THANK YOU!  I too have asked for something like this in the past.  One thing I would ask is that all the teams be open to all types just to mix up the flavor.  I think it is very realistic to expect a xeno team would include someone from the Army, Navy, Sci, and Admin sectors just to make sure one group did not get too much clout over the other.  Also I think an espionage team would greatly benefit from the scientific sector.  I would also like to see Army officers available for staff positions such as logistics, communications, intelligence, and survey.

Thanks again!

Adam.
 

Offline Steve Walmsley (OP)

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Re: Navy Officers, Army Officers, Civilians and Scientists
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2009, 06:44:13 AM »
I see some concerns about research time :)

Firstly, any given set of research tasks will take no more time as they do now.  With the same number of labs and the same amount of time, you will be able to research the same amount of tech systems as you can now (or more, probably). It's just that instead of researching A then B then C you would research them all at once. The overall time taken would be the same. The main difference will be that you probably won't be able to concentrate everything on a single task. However, a scientist can start with up to Admin Rating 6, which is 30 labs, and that Admin Rating may increase over time with experience so that particular restriction may not be much of a restriction at all. The main advantage of the new system in terms of research time is that you can always use your best scientists, even if they only just became available. There will be no need to wait for them to slowly rise through the ranks. This means that overall research time should actually be reduced for a set number of labs as you are likely to be researching with a high bonus level far more often than at the moment.

Steve
 

Offline Brian Neumann

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Re: Navy Officers, Army Officers, Civilians and Scientists
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2009, 09:20:40 AM »
Quote from: "Steve Walmsley"
I see some concerns about research time :)

Firstly, any given set of research tasks will take no more time as they do now.  With the same number of labs and the same amount of time, you will be able to research the same amount of tech systems as you can now (or more, probably). It's just that instead of researching A then B then C you would research them all at once. The overall time taken would be the same. The main difference will be that you probably won't be able to concentrate everything on a single task. However, a scientist can start with up to Admin Rating 6, which is 30 labs, and that Admin Rating may increase over time with experience so that particular restriction may not be much of a restriction at all. The main advantage of the new system in terms of research time is that you can always use your best scientists, even if they only just became available. There will be no need to wait for them to slowly rise through the ranks. This means that overall research time should actually be reduced for a set number of labs as you are likely to be researching with a high bonus level far more often than at the moment.

Steve
The problem that I see with this is at higher tech levels it is going to take forever to increase any given tech.  Here is an example.  Assume a leader with an admin rating of 10 (assuming 5 labs/level), they will control 50 labs.  If you are reasearching a 1m point tech and have the 1.25m point cost reasearch tech (1000 rp/lab) and you assume a 30% bonus in the appropriate field it will still take about nine years to reasearch. If there were 200 labs on the planet (probably low for this tech level) and only had the 30% bonus for being in the wrong field it would take 3.85 years.  

While I know that the new version would let you reasearch multiple systems at the same time and overall get more reasearch done in a given time, you are loosing the ability to focus on a particular tech when you really need it.  I know I am assuming that the admin level is linear for the number of labs that they can control.  I would suggest that high levels of admin be able to control proportionately more labs than lower levels.  Example for levels 1-3 have each level control 5 labs.  For levels 4-6 have them control 8 labs, and for levels 7-9 have them control 11 labs per level.  This would obviously make the levels above what they start out with worth a lot more, but they way that you do increases in abilities means that the higher levels are more likely to be with leaders who are older and more likely to retire.  When that happens there will be a major void and a lot of labs will end up being retasked.  It should end up being a bit more dynamic overall.

Brian
 

Offline waresky

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Re: Navy Officers, Army Officers, Civilians and Scientists
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2009, 11:52:38 AM »
Quote from: "Beersatron"
Waresky may just explode with the change to research!  :D

Can you assign all research labs to a single project without assigning a lead scientist? So, you could focus all your efforts on the one goal - its just going to be hard to find a scientist who has the wherewithal to run such a large project.
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH ???????????????

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GRAZIE GRAZIEGRAZIE GRAZIE GRAZIE (than you translate on english:D) STEVE!!!!

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Offline waresky

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Re: Navy Officers, Army Officers, Civilians and Scientists
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2009, 11:57:46 AM »
Quote from: "welchbloke"
Quote from: "Beersatron"
Waresky may just explode with the change to research!  :D  The last thing we need is a for him to reach critical mass and detonate  :arrow:  :shock: BOOOOOOOM
 

Offline Steve Walmsley (OP)

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Re: Navy Officers, Army Officers, Civilians and Scientists
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2009, 09:44:40 AM »
Quote from: "Brian"
The problem that I see with this is at higher tech levels it is going to take forever to increase any given tech.  Here is an example.  Assume a leader with an admin rating of 10 (assuming 5 labs/level), they will control 50 labs.  If you are reasearching a 1m point tech and have the 1.25m point cost reasearch tech (1000 rp/lab) and you assume a 30% bonus in the appropriate field it will still take about nine years to reasearch. If there were 200 labs on the planet (probably low for this tech level) and only had the 30% bonus for being in the wrong field it would take 3.85 years.  

While I know that the new version would let you reasearch multiple systems at the same time and overall get more reasearch done in a given time, you are loosing the ability to focus on a particular tech when you really need it.  I know I am assuming that the admin level is linear for the number of labs that they can control.  I would suggest that high levels of admin be able to control proportionately more labs than lower levels.  Example for levels 1-3 have each level control 5 labs.  For levels 4-6 have them control 8 labs, and for levels 7-9 have them control 11 labs per level.  This would obviously make the levels above what they start out with worth a lot more, but they way that you do increases in abilities means that the higher levels are more likely to be with leaders who are older and more likely to retire.  When that happens there will be a major void and a lot of labs will end up being retasked.  It should end up being a bit more dynamic overall.
I agree that the very high end techs are going to take a long time to research, although I think the RP requirements at that level probably are probably too high anyway. It's just something I haven't got around to sorting out yet. I would like to see how a few campaigns go though before making any changes to the admin ratings. Scientists/Administrators don't retire until at least age 70 (which I should have mentioned in my original post) so by the time your Empire is at the stage of researching the high end tech, you are going to have scientists with potentially fifty years of experience.

Also, Scientists and Administrators will only gain experience while they are carrying out a task so it is very much in a player's interest to spread around the research work. 5 scientists controlling 10 labs each will provide you with a much greater pool of talent over time than If you have 1 scientist controlling 50 labs.

Steve
 

Offline Randy

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Re: Navy Officers, Army Officers, Civilians and Scientists
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2009, 12:22:42 PM »
Just a few thoughts I had while reading this...:

1. What happens to a research project if the lead scientist retires/has an accident (dies or is forced to retire...) while he is directing the active project?

2. Need to add to current research grid what kind of projects the team would take on after completing the current one (maybe show the team's specialization).

3. What restrictions exist for scientist with no specialization? can tackle any project? If so, how do I prevent his team from taking
on a queued project I want a specific other team to work on as soon as they complete their current project?
  Or maybe better - let me queue research jobs to a specific team rather than in a general queue. This would also have to handle the case where a team is disbanded due to the scientist retiring/dieing...

  otherwise sounds interesting :)  (Now I just gotta fix my computer so I can be ready for 4.7...)
 

Offline Steve Walmsley (OP)

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Re: Navy Officers, Army Officers, Civilians and Scientists
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2009, 05:59:37 AM »
Quote from: "Randy"
Just a few thoughts I had while reading this...:

1. What happens to a research project if the lead scientist retires/has an accident (dies or is forced to retire...) while he is directing the active project?

2. Need to add to current research grid what kind of projects the team would take on after completing the current one (maybe show the team's specialization).

3. What restrictions exist for scientist with no specialization? can tackle any project? If so, how do I prevent his team from taking
on a queued project I want a specific other team to work on as soon as they complete their current project?
  Or maybe better - let me queue research jobs to a specific team rather than in a general queue. This would also have to handle the case where a team is disbanded due to the scientist retiring/dieing...
Good questions/ideas. I have added a two letter code after the scientists in the project list (CP for construction/production, MK for missiles/kinetic, etc.) so you can see the specialization. When you queue a technology, you now also choose the existing project team (Scientists + labs) that will take it on after they finish their current project. Cancelling a project will also cancel anything queued for the same project team.

If a scientist dies or retires, his current project and any queued projects will be cancelled. However, any work done to that point will be saved so a new team can pick it up and continue.

Steve
 

Offline boggo2300

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Re: Navy Officers, Army Officers, Civilians and Scientists
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2009, 04:31:54 PM »
Hmmm, what about different academies for training the new leader types? like a Military Academy for ground officers, Universities for scientists and Administrators?
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