Change Log for v7.00 Discussion

[Jorgen_CAB]

In relation to the change of boat bays and flight crew quarters... are there any plans to expand on the whole hangar ship mechanics in the game?

I mean, different modules for launch and/or recovery of craft and maintenance and storage of internal craft and a way to separate capacity from maximum size of crafts.

I think this would be a good addition to the current rule set. Sure... you can role-play this aspect if you like, but that is not the same thing.

[alex_brunius]

In relation to the change of boat bays and flight crew quarters... are there any plans to expand on the whole hangar ship mechanics in the game?

I mean, different modules for launch and/or recovery of craft and maintenance and storage of internal craft and a way to separate capacity from maximum size of crafts.

I think this would be a good addition to the current rule set. Sure... you can role-play this aspect if you like, but that is not the same thing.

Interesting suggestion. I can imagine 3 types of components that could be involved here:

Launch bay - Limits the Maximum size of craft you can launch and recover as well as frequency, designed component.
techs similar to missile launchers specify launch cycle time scaling with ship size
Component mass is X% of maximum ship * amount of ships that can be launched per cycle.
Not required ( for example for ambulance/recovery type craft ) but without it each craft will take 1 hour to launch.

Example: A launch bay for 200 ton fighter with 67% efficiency may be 300 ton per fighter for a total of 900 ton to launch/recover 3 fighters each cycle.

Maintenance hangar - Limits size capacity and frequency of refueling, repairing and rearming of crafts, designed component. Has a maximum size similar to Launch bays and throughput limits on how many ships can be refueled, repaired and rearmed at the same time.

Mechanic change - Refueling now takes time ( scaling with total mass of ship and % of mass that is dedicated to fuel-tanks ).

Storage hangar - Plain hangars that allow storage of combat ready craft up to 100% of it's mass capacity in tons, or disassembled craft up to 200% of it's mass capacity in tons ( for transit only, not possible to operate in combat )

Mechanic change: Storage hangars don't add any mass until they are loaded with crafts. ( Included if fuel also dynamically change mass of ship )

[rcj33]

I like the idea of having a cockpit instead of using tiny crew quarters. However, I think my current fighter design (which just fits in a Small Boat Bay ) would only save about 2.5% mass by using it. Are there plans in the works to increase the granularity of small components? Otherwise, the only thing I can squeeze in is one more fighter per carrier  

[Jorgen_CAB]

Interesting suggestion. I can imagine 3 types of components that could be involved here:

Launch bay - Limits the Maximum size of craft you can launch and recover as well as frequency, designed component.
techs similar to missile launchers specify launch cycle time scaling with ship size
Component mass is X% of maximum ship * amount of ships that can be launched per cycle.
Not required ( for example for ambulance/recovery type craft ) but without it each craft will take 1 hour to launch.

Example: A launch bay for 200 ton fighter with 67% efficiency may be 300 ton per fighter for a total of 900 ton to launch/recover 3 fighters each cycle.

Maintenance hangar - Limits size capacity and frequency of refueling, repairing and rearming of crafts, designed component. Has a maximum size similar to Launch bays and throughput limits on how many ships can be refueled, repaired and rearmed at the same time.

Mechanic change - Refueling now takes time ( scaling with total mass of ship and % of mass that is dedicated to fuel-tanks ).

Storage hangar - Plain hangars that allow storage of combat ready craft up to 100% of it's mass capacity in tons, or disassembled craft up to 200% of it's mass capacity in tons ( for transit only, not possible to operate in combat )

Mechanic change: Storage hangars don't add any mass until they are loaded with crafts. ( Included if fuel also dynamically change mass of ship )

I like most of this... I would also like to see spare fighter crew have an impact on the frequency of which fighters and other crafts can operate. Although crafts in aurora are pretty large so most will probably be able to accommodate most necessities in forms of entertainment and comfortable relaxing areas for crew stress to be relieved.

In comparison real fighter air-planes for example might have a theoretical return rate of 30-40min while in practice its more like 2-6 hours even during intense air campaigns. I might think that advanced computing and communication devices will make mission depbrief and participation easier in a future like Aurora so perhaps it's a moot point.

I like the idea of having a cockpit instead of using tiny crew quarters. However, I think my current fighter design (which just fits in a Small Boat Bay ) would only save about 2.5% mass by using it. Are there plans in the works to increase the granularity of small components? Otherwise, the only thing I can squeeze in is one more fighter per carrier  

The problem I see is that when the term "fighter" is used people will tend to think of them as jet fighters or a X-Wing from Star Wars or something. Small combat craft in Aurora is no such thing. They are more like a small patrol ship with a large ramp of anti-ship missiles... like this...

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Finnish_Rauma-class_missile_boat_FNS_Naantali_%28PTG_73%29.jpg

[83athom]

The problem I see is that when the term "fighter" is used people will tend to think of them as jet fighters or a X-Wing from Star Wars or something. Small combat craft in Aurora is no such thing. They are more like a small patrol ship with a large ramp of anti-ship missiles... like this...

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Finnish_Rauma-class_missile_boat_FNS_Naantali_%28PTG_73%29.jpg

But there are many different Sci-Fi universes where the fighters are more like Aurora's fighters. There is a book series I read (don't remember the name off the top of my head) where the fighters are 100ft long, around 50ft wide, and 15ft high (can't remember if the width is correct), and have 1-3 crew each.

[boggo2300]

There is a book series I read (don't remember the name off the top of my head) where the fighters are 100ft long, around 50ft wide, and 15ft high (can't remember if the width is correct), and have 1-3 crew each.

F-15 is 63'9" long 42'10" wide and 18'6" high, with a crew of 1-2
Su-27 is 72' long 48'3" wide and 19'6" high, with a crew of 1-2
or for a more modern twist
F-22 is 62'1" long 44'6" wide and 16'8" high, with a crew of 1
hell even the Joke Strike Fighter (F-35) is 50'6" long, 35' wide and 14'2" high, with a crew of 1

not really that different

People really seem to underestimate the size of Jet fighters

[rcj33]

The problem I see is that when the term "fighter" is used people will tend to think of them as jet fighters or a X-Wing from Star Wars or something. Small combat craft in Aurora is no such thing. They are more like a small patrol ship with a large ramp of anti-ship missiles... like this...

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Finnish_Rauma-class_missile_boat_FNS_Naantali_%28PTG_73%29.jpg

I thought they were between the size mass of the Space Shuttle and 747s

[Jorgen_CAB]

But there are many different Sci-Fi universes where the fighters are more like Aurora's fighters. There is a book series I read (don't remember the name off the top of my head) where the fighters are 100ft long, around 50ft wide, and 15ft high (can't remember if the width is correct), and have 1-3 crew each.

Yes that is true... a 250t Aurora "fighter" probably has something like those parameters which is a pretty big ship if you ask me, especially of you have allot of them inside the hangar of a mother ship. Most "fighters" in aurora has the need to be in space for a couple of days so they probably has small bunkers for the crew to sleep and I would guess that in real terms they would (should) carry extra crew on longer missions as well.

There size is at lest equivalent to modern missile boats, their fuel are usually for a couple of days and intended deployment time is .1 month so about three days. That is pretty similar to a modern missile boat as well. Of course Aurora "fighters" have less crew requirement since they are fully automated with all (or most) system internal to the ship.

F-15 is 63'9" long 42'10" wide and 18'6" high, with a crew of 1-2
Su-27 is 72' long 48'3" wide and 19'6" high, with a crew of 1-2
or for a more modern twist
F-22 is 62'1" long 44'6" wide and 16'8" high, with a crew of 1
hell even the Joke Strike Fighter (F-35) is 50'6" long, 35' wide and 14'2" high, with a crew of 1

not really that different

People really seem to underestimate the size of Jet fighters

That is not even near a planes actual volume because of the wings and tail such planes seem big when in fact they are very slim and loaded weight in the neighbourhood of 20 ton. While a Missile Boat would weigh about 250t and have a size of say 160*30*15 feet or something with much less slim and flimsy parts...

Planes operates in hours while ships operate in days, that is a completely different set if circumstances. Small scout ships in Aurora could even operate in weeks or months at a time.

So what I initially meant is that the term "fighters" in aurora is more like a modern day missile boat that act and operate in days and not hours. Sure.... really late game fighters might often operate in less time because their speed is so high, but they can still be deployed on longer missions if need be since their size make that possible.

[Jorgen_CAB]

I thought they were between the size mass of the Space Shuttle and 747s

I suppose you mean the Space Shuttles "Orbiter" which is the part that goes into space and land again. This craft is about 70t in empty weight and has a maximum landing weight at about 100t. So... a fair bit smaller than a fighter in Aurora.

[Steve Walmsley]

I don't (currently) have any plans for a major overhaul of hangars. The changes are because I am playing a new campaign at the moment and I decided to equip ships with 'lifeboats'. Small teaser for when I finally get around to posting part 1:

The Kyumei Boto class Lifeboat was the result of High Swordsman Takagi’s desire to improve the survivability of Rigellian crews. With a size of only 120 tons, the Kyumei Boto would be hard for hostile forces to detect while its speed of 8750 km/s would allow a speedy exit from the area of conflict. Even with its small size and high speed, the life boat could still carry up to two hundred crew members within its emergency cryogenic transport module and had a range of more than thirteen billion kilometres. However, it lacked a jump drive so the Kyumei Boto would have to remain within the same system unless a jump gate or a jump-capable vessel was available.

Code: [Select]

Kyumei Boto class Lifeboat    120 tons     1 Crew     20.5 BP      TCS 2.4  TH 21  EM 0
8750 km/s     Armour 1-2     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 0
Maint Life 0 Years     MSP 0    AFR 24%    IFR 0.3%    1YR 1    5YR 19    Max Repair 10.5 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Spare Berths 1   
Cryogenic Berths 200   

FD-21 Lifeboat Fusion Drive (1)    Power 21    Fuel Use 55.92%    Signature 21    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 5,000 Litres    Range 13.4 billion km   (17 days at full power)


[83athom]

Just because its a lifeboat and meant to last for a while I would put a fighter engineering just for the RP, and to get it at 125tons exactly (I have OCD about stuff like that). Also you don't want your cyropods bursting open and spilling out all their contents of frozen beef into space due to maintenance failure, that would be embarrassing.

[Steve Walmsley]

Just because its a lifeboat and meant to last for a while I would put a fighter engineering just for the RP, and to get it at 125tons exactly (I have OCD about stuff like that). Also you don't want your cyropods bursting open and spilling out all their contents of frozen beef into space due to maintenance failure, that would be embarrassing.

Smallest I have at the moment is Engineering Section - Small (which is 25 tons). Maybe for future versions.

[schroeam]

....High Swordsman Takagi’s desire to improve the survivability of Rigellian crews...

This is AWESOME!!!

[Steve Walmsley]

This is AWESOME!!!

You can blame Beersatron - it was his idea

Quiet start for once but foundation is there for a decent campaign.

[Garfunkel]

Good news about pre-fab PDCs not requiring minerals anymore. While I usually love micromanagement, it does get overwhelming with Aurora every now and then. This change will certainly make it easier to plop PDCs down on remote locations even if you do still need quite a number of Construction Brigades on site.