Author Topic: v2.4.0 Changes Discussion Thread  (Read 8316 times)

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Online Steve Walmsley (OP)

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v2.4.0 Changes Discussion Thread
« on: December 03, 2023, 09:23:51 AM »
Thread for discussion of changes announced for v2.2.0. Please do not post bug reports or unrelated suggestions in this thread.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2024, 07:34:49 AM by Steve Walmsley »
 
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Offline doodle_sm

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Re: v2.4.0 Changes Discussion Thread
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2023, 11:32:52 AM »
With the new jump drive changes ; it looks like jump capable fighters are more plausible now from my impression.

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Offline Bremen

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Re: v2.4.0 Changes Discussion Thread
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2023, 12:30:31 PM »
With the new jump drive changes ; it looks like jump capable fighters are more plausible now from my impression.

X-Wings...

Hum, there are new disadvantages to jump fighters, with jump drives becoming more efficient as they get larger. And relative to the old version, smaller ones cost more now while larger ones are getting cheaper, though that seems to be more correcting an oddity in jump drive cost. It seems to me the continuation of the trend of larger ships getting more efficient that's been going on for awhile.

But it is true that the biggest obstacle to jump fighters was always the minimum jump size for a squadron jump (well, that and the micromanagement of dealing with potentially dozens of fighter squadrons jumping). So maybe.
 

Online Steve Walmsley (OP)

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Re: v2.4.0 Changes Discussion Thread
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2023, 12:35:24 PM »
With the new jump drive changes ; it looks like jump capable fighters are more plausible now from my impression.

X-Wings...

Hum, there are new disadvantages to jump fighters, with jump drives becoming more efficient as they get larger. And relative to the old version, smaller ones cost more now while larger ones are getting cheaper, though that seems to be more correcting an oddity in jump drive cost. It seems to me the continuation of the trend of larger ships getting more efficient that's been going on for awhile.

But it is true that the biggest obstacle to jump fighters was always the minimum jump size for a squadron jump (well, that and the micromanagement of dealing with potentially dozens of fighter squadrons jumping). So maybe.

I need to edit the post, but I also removed the previous minimum jump drive cost of 10 BP, so the smaller drives are now cheaper.
 
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Offline Nori

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Re: v2.4.0 Changes Discussion Thread
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2023, 12:57:08 PM »
With JJ changes this'll be save breaking I'm guessing?
 

Offline Ultimoos

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Re: v2.4.0 Changes Discussion Thread
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2023, 01:02:09 PM »
Any editing of data base will result in saves being gone since they are kept in the same data base. I'm guessing it would be quite a hurdle to separate saves from main data base.
 

Offline Ulzgoroth

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Re: v2.4.0 Changes Discussion Thread
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2023, 03:26:52 PM »
Extremely tiny nit: the last column of the spreadsheet for jump drive changes should be labeled "Commercial Drive Size (Tons)" but is labeled "Commercial Drive Size (HS)".
 

Offline LiquidGold2

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Re: v2.4.0 Changes Discussion Thread
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2023, 04:56:20 PM »
The new Jump Drive changes look nice.

Does this signal a shift from bugfixing the recent releases to working on the next major release?
 

Offline nuclearslurpee

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Re: v2.4.0 Changes Discussion Thread
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2023, 06:19:31 PM »
The new Jump Drive changes look nice.

Does this signal a shift from bugfixing the recent releases to working on the next major release?

Personally I am hoping we get the drive changes and then Steve starts on a 2.5 which will be a major release. Seems like most of the obvious bugs have been found now so 2.4 should be a stable version for AARs.
 
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Online Steve Walmsley (OP)

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Re: v2.4.0 Changes Discussion Thread
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2023, 04:48:17 AM »
It maybe a little while before v2.4.0 releases as I want to test the new JD changes. Before that test happens, I am working on  a mini-project to increase the number of known systems from 4500 to over 60,000, which would cover everything within 750 light years of Sol. In the past, I manually entered all the systems and calculated their positions as needed, which took a LONG time. Now I am trying to convert part of the Hipparchus Star Catalog into a format that Aurora can use using a mainly automated process, although some manual work is still required..

Offline StarshipCactus

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Re: v2.4.0 Changes Discussion Thread
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2023, 04:59:19 AM »
It maybe a little while before v2.4.0 releases as I want to test the new JD changes. Before that test happens, I am working on  a mini-project to increase the number of known systems from 4500 to over 60,000, which would cover everything within 750 light years of Sol. In the past, I manually entered all the systems and calculated their positions as needed, which took a LONG time. Now I am trying to convert part of the Hipparchus Star Catalog into a format that Aurora can use using a mainly automated process, although some manual work is still required..
That sounds awesome!
 

Offline joshuawood

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Re: v2.4.0 Changes Discussion Thread
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2023, 05:09:07 AM »
Instead of making the extra ships not take any more tonnage and instead increase cost why not instead remove the number of ships restriction and restrict jump drives to TOTAL tonnage.

So for example if you had a 5000ton jump drive on a 1000ton ship you could jump 4 other 1000ton ships, or you could jump 8 other 500ton ships.


I feel like big ships have a lot on benefits at the moment and this change would really benefit smaller ships.


This would be my preferred option to not overcomplicate the system. with the new system already proposed a squad of beam fighters can have a single jump ship with them and increasing efficiency tech doesn't really make that jump ship any better as even a small jump drive on a fighter means it will sacrifice it's gun or fuel etc. meaning it can't keep up with the other fighters/FACs and still be in the fight.

with my proposal jump fighters can swap their weapon out for a jump drive of maximum size that will fit inside the ship and will then be able to jump more and more other fighters as efficiency increases.



If you wanted to discourage spamming ships you could make a multiplier per ship you are jumping and make that a new tech line.

So each ship added multiplies total tonnage available by 0.8 at the start and 0.98 at max tech.

so the example before becomes a 5000ton jump drive on a 1000ton ship can transport 2 other ships of 1100tons since 5000x0.8x0.8 = 3200 tons the total tonnage of all 3 ships, and it can transport very few 500ton ships but still more than the 1100ton ships.

This would prevent a large ship being able to jump 100's of tiny ships.

The 2nd option is a lot more complicated and i don't think is required.


Just some food for thought. I still like the proposed changes as they stand.
 

Offline Uran

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Re: v2.4.0 Changes Discussion Thread
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2023, 05:26:56 AM »
I am working on  a mini-project to increase the number of known systems from 4500 to over 60,000, which would cover everything within 750 light years of Sol. In the past, I manually entered all the systems and calculated their positions as needed, which took a LONG time. Now I am trying to convert part of the Hipparchus Star Catalog into a format that Aurora can use using a mainly automated process, although some manual work is still required..

Oh my! Huge work!
But my game become extremely slow paced (not a game program but my game decisions and management) when I develop 2 major colonies (not a mining outposts). I can't imagine what I will do with 60k systems.
 

Online Steve Walmsley (OP)

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Re: v2.4.0 Changes Discussion Thread
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2023, 05:59:34 AM »
It maybe a little while before v2.4.0 releases as I want to test the new JD changes. Before that test happens, I am working on  a mini-project to increase the number of known systems from 4500 to over 60,000, which would cover everything within 750 light years of Sol. In the past, I manually entered all the systems and calculated their positions as needed, which took a LONG time. Now I am trying to convert part of the Hipparchus Star Catalog into a format that Aurora can use using a mainly automated process, although some manual work is still required..
That sounds awesome!

Yes, it is fascinating, but I am also learning just how inaccurate some data can be. I have a spreadsheet with 65,000 stars that I exported from Hipparchus and is the basis of the future known star list. I have been trying to parse text fields into usable data. For example, the spectral type is reported in many different ways. The normal way is single letter (there are about 10 options), followed by 0-9 followed by a roman numeral from 1-7, with an optional small case a/b for some supergiant stars. For example G2V or K0III, etc.. In the catalog the majority of the entries in that column seem to be just free text such as sdM4, dM5.5eJ, M1/M2V, A0m..., M3.5Vvar, etc., so I had to write some excel functions to extract what I needed.

There are multiple names for each star. The 'popular' name and then names from many different star catalogues, seven of which (Gliese, Gliese-Jahreiss, Woolley, HR, HD, HIP, Bayer-Flamsteed) are included in the Hipparchus data along with the popular name. Everything has a HIP entry and usually one or two of the others. For example, Proxima Centauri is also known as Alpha Centauri C, V645 Centauri, GJ 551, HIP 70890, CCDM J14396-6050C, LFT 1110, LHS 49, LPM 526, LTT 5721 and NLTT 37460.

Bayer Flamsteed is an old system that created the Greek letter plus constellation, such as Alpha Centauri or Delta Pavonis, and also number/constellation such as 61 Cygni, which they ran out of greek letters. In the HIP data, they give this in the format of 61SigDra, Del Pav, 24Eta Cas, 107    Psc, 37Xi  Boo, 40Omi2Eri, etc. with random amounts of spaces. So you sometimes have up to three leading numbers but not always, then a Greek letter shortened to 3 letters, except for the four Greek letters that only have two characters, then sometimes a number in the middle and then a three letter constellation at the end. Another fun parsing task :)

For this new list I am choosing from the different catalogues in order, taking the first one that has text. I start with the popular name if given, if not I use Bayer Flamsteed, then Gliese, etc. Unfortunately I didn't have that method when I did my original list, so in a lot of cases the new name doesn't match the current name. I have about 4500 stars in the Aurora database but only 3500 that match the new list. Some of that is because I added stars discovered after the catalogue was created and also a lot of brown dwarfs from the WISE catalogue, etc. So I would prefer to add to my current table, not replace it. That means I have to go through the non-matches and figure out why, which is what I am going right now.

Sometimes it is because I used a different name, or the star in the new list doesn't exist in Aurora, but also finding some weird situations like a star that is in the HIP data, but doesn't exist because it was just a light artifact, or stars that were listed as 15 LY, but are actually 2300 LY, etc. Its a slow process. I might ultimately just replace the list and try to add the old data back in, but I still would need to check that I don't end up putting the same star in twice with different names.

Finally, many of the more distant HIP stars will be multi-star systems, but reported as single stars because they can't be separated at that distance. I will need to add some random binaries and trinaries to balance or all the distant systems will be single star.

Anyway - whatever I end up doing, it won't be quick :)
 
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Online Steve Walmsley (OP)

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Re: v2.4.0 Changes Discussion Thread
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2023, 06:02:01 AM »
The new Jump Drive changes look nice.

Does this signal a shift from bugfixing the recent releases to working on the next major release?

Yes, unless some major bug pops up.
 
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