Newbie Question #5 "Missiles and how to load/launch/use them"

[voteslave (OP)]

Hi all

I have built a missile boat with size 5 box launchers:

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Missile Boat class Frigate    3 000 tons     49 Crew     348.75 BP      TCS 60  TH 160  EM 0
2666 km/s     Armour 8-18     Shields 0-0     Sensors 8/12/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 5.25
Maint Life 2.53 Years     MSP 73    AFR 72%    IFR 1%    1YR 16    5YR 239    Max Repair 40 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Spare Berths 1   
Magazine 35   

Lloyd & Ford 160 EP Magneto-plasma Drive (1)    Power 160    Fuel Use 7.07%    Signature 160    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 50 000 Litres    Range 42.4 billion km   (184 days at full power)

Riley-Browne Size 5 Box Launcher (7)    Missile Size 5    Hangar Reload 37.5 minutes    MF Reload 6.2 hours
Missile Fire Control Corp MFC  5000t/11.52mkm (1)     Range 11.5m km    Resolution 100

Active Search Sensor Corp ASS 5000t/9.6mkm (1)     GPS 1600     Range 9.6m km    Resolution 100
Sims Dynamics Thermal Sensor TH1-8 (1)     Sensitivity 8     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  8m km
EM Detection Corp EM Detection Sensor 2HS-12EMS (70%) (1)     Sensitivity 12     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  12m km

ECCM-1 (1)         ECM 10

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
and some size 5 missiles:

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Missile Size: 5 MSP  (0.25 HS)     Warhead: 12    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 16
Speed: 22400 km/s    Engine Endurance: 25 minutes   Range: 33.6m km
Cost Per Missile: 5.04
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 358.4%   3k km/s 112%   5k km/s 71.7%   10k km/s 35.8%
Materials Required:    3x Tritanium   2.04x Gallicite   Fuel x250

Development Cost for Project: 504RP

QUESTION: How do i load them onto the ship?  I have give the TG load ordnance and it says orders complete but they are not on the ship.  If i go into the ship itself i can't see anywhere to specify which missile to "assign".    I am obviously doing something wrong or missing something - any help much appreciated.

Thanks

PS any critique of the ship/missile is also welcome as this is the first combat stuff i have designed (and there are nasty aliens in a system right next to me).

PPS and if you are feeling really helpful i have tagged on (reply #10) another "population" question in my Newbie question thread #3 http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=8201.0

[Ostia]

Missile Load out is under Class Design, Ordnance/Fighters Tab.

If you have assigned a standard load out there, "Load Ordnance" will work from the ship screen. (You can do that even after Locking the design)

Otherwise you have to manual load your ships other the Ships Screen, Ordnance Management Tab.

And for you Ship:

You have no additional magazines, so you only have that one load in your launchers. And personally i would add another launcher and MFC and make it 2 4-missile salvos.

Also, 2666 km/s is pretty slow. I guess you have a single 10 HS, Power * 1.00 engine in that?

And personally. I would shove the sensors into a Frigate Leader/Command ship to focus on combat ability. (Just keep the MFC on the combat ship)

And as for your missile: mind to post the exact design? How many MSP are assigned to what.
Also the missile engine design please.

[MarcAFK]

On the class design screen there's an ordnance page, you specify what the default load out is. When you give the load ordnance command it will attempt to fill the ships magazines to that default.
You do need to have the missiles built and at that colony of course.
Another option is to load missiles manually from the individual ship window.
There's a few options there for selecting which ship to transfer from, then clicking on the missiles to transfer.
Criticism of the design?
It's pretty slow for magneto plasma, quite heavily armoured, weapons load out seems anaemic. What percentage of the design is box launchers?
Your engines are very efficient though which explains the speed.
What is the design intended to be used for ?
That speed and range might make it a good escort for freighters, though I would minimise the armour, add more box launchers for a good alpha strike, and find some way of increasing fire control range, maybe remove the active and then accompany the task group with a dedicated sensor variant.
But that's just my personal view, this ship might meet your goals as is.

Edit: Ostia mentions magazines, not particularly useful for box launchers though :p

[voteslave (OP)]

thanks Ostia/MarcAFK

I have loaded the missiles  - but gonna need some time to think about your comments on ship/missile design so will post again when i have done this.

The ship itself was just designed as a bit of a throw away to test combat - and as its my first design i didn't (don't) really know whats best but hopefully that will come.

I was worried about whether i had the right sensors (or even some that aren't needed) but other than the short range of the fire control i get the impression that sensor design (range/specs etc) is OK??  n.b. i am researching Active Grav Sensor Strength 21 - is this the right tech to increase range?

Ostia - the other info you requested is as follows:

ANTI SHIP MISSILE  QUESTION : should this have any sensors or fire control??

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Missile Size: 5 MSP  (0.25 HS)     Warhead: 12    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 16
Speed: 22400 km/s    Engine Endurance: 25 minutes   Range: 33.6m km
Cost Per Missile: 5.04
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 358.4%   3k km/s 112%   5k km/s 71.7%   10k km/s 35.8%
Materials Required:    3x Tritanium   2.04x Gallicite   Fuel x250

Development Cost for Project: 504RP
MISSILE ENGINE  --- i couldn't find a screen to copy the info from, all i got was the following from the Technology Report Screen - is there somewhere else i can look?

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5.6EP mageneto-plasma
size 2
cost 1.4
power 5.6
fuel efficiency 107.13

Thanks

[MarcAFK]

If the ship isn't being designed for any particular purpose then it's probably fine to have it fairly balanced.
How large is the fire control?
What could you sacrifice to give it the full 30 million kilometer range of the missiles?
The same with launchers, what would a similar ship with regular launchers and magazines look like. I like to use spacemaster to design variants before deciding what to dedicate my yard to.
I'll instant complete components prefixed with "prototype" so they can be deleted easier.

[Ostia]

Marc, I missed that he is using box launches, which indeed makes magazines pointless.

vote, open the missile design screen, select your current missile design under "MSP Allocation of Previous Designs"

What5 I want to know is the MSP allocation under "Enter Component Sizes"

[voteslave (OP)]

How large is the fire control?

the fire control on the ship (is that what you mean?) is size 0.4

QUESTION :  do i need any fire control or sensors on the missile itself?

What could you sacrifice to give it the full 30 million kilometer range of the missiles?
The same with launchers, what would a similar ship with regular launchers and magazines look like. I like to use spacemaster to design variants before deciding what to dedicate my yard to.
I'll instant complete components prefixed with "prototype" so they can be deleted easier.

thanks, thats a good idea - i'll look into that

[voteslave (OP)]

Marc, I missed that he is using box launches, which indeed makes magazines pointless.

vote, open the missile design screen, select your current missile design under "MSP Allocation of Previous Designs"

What5 I want to know is the MSP allocation under "Enter Component Sizes"

my size 5 anti ship missile is split as follows:

Warhead strength  MSP 2.4 > value 12
Fuel                      MSP 0.1 > 250
Agility                   MSP 0.5 > 32

[voteslave (OP)]

Does this design look any better - particularly sensors and fire control??

Also, i haven't redesigned the actual missiles yet - will wait and see what the comments are on the designs i posted above

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Missile Boat Mk.2 class Frigate    4 400 tons     72 Crew     471.7 BP      TCS 88  TH 320  EM 0
3636 km/s     Armour 6-23     Shields 0-0     Sensors 16/12/0/0     Damage Control Rating 11     PPV 7.5
Maint Life 1.32 Years     MSP 67    AFR 154%    IFR 2.2%    1YR 41    5YR 610    Max Repair 40 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Spare Berths 0   
Magazine 50   

Lloyd & Ford 160 EP Magneto-plasma Drive (2)    Power 160    Fuel Use 7.07%    Signature 160    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 100 000 Litres    Range 57.9 billion km   (184 days at full power)

Riley-Browne Size 5 Box Launcher (10)    Missile Size 5    Hangar Reload 37.5 minutes    MF Reload 6.2 hours
Active Search Sensor AGSS21 Missile Fire Control 5000t/12.12mkm (1)     Range 15.1m km    Resolution 100
Size 5 ASM (7)  Speed: 22 400 km/s   End: 25m    Range: 33.6m km   WH: 12    Size: 5    TH: 119/71/35

Active Search Sensor AGSS21 Active Search Sensor MR17-R100 (70%) (1)     GPS 2940     Range 17.6m km    Resolution 100
Sims Dynamics Thermal Sensor TH2-16 Thermal Sensor TH2-16 (1)     Sensitivity 16     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  16m km
EM Detection Corp EM Detection Sensor 2HS-12EMS (70%) (1)     Sensitivity 12     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  12m km

ECCM-1 (1)         ECM 10

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
Its just meant to be a cheap short range hit and run missile boat to try out my first combat.

Thanks

[MarcAFK]

Hmm, you've made it a third more expensive, added almost 50% more firepower, 50% more speed, decreased armour but because of it being a matter ship it'll actually be more durable, and added a slight increase to fire control range, but have also matched that with a larger active sensor.
Not too bad.
You still might want more fire control range though, as fire controls take up a lot less space than active sensors you'll find decreasing your sensor range by 1 million will give you 2 million more fire control.
If this ship operates by itself you'll want matched fire control and sensor range, but if it operates in a group with larger ships or dedicated sensor ships you would prefer to maximise fire control range and have minimal backup active sensors.
Also note that as your new ship is larger it's much easier to target.
Find a good balance or specialise each ship, ultimately it's up to you how you want your ships :p.

[voteslave (OP)]

Hmm, you've made it a third more expensive, added almost 50% more firepower, 50% more speed, decreased armour but because of it being a matter ship it'll actually be more durable, and added a slight increase to fire control range, but have also matched that with a larger active sensor.
Not too bad.
You still might want more fire control range though, as fire controls take up a lot less space than active sensors you'll find decreasing your sensor range by 1 million will give you 2 million more fire control.
If this ship operates by itself you'll want matched fire control and sensor range, but if it operates in a group with larger ships or dedicated sensor ships you would prefer to maximise fire control range and have minimal backup active sensors.
Also note that as your new ship is larger it's much easier to target.
Find a good balance or specialise each ship, ultimately it's up to you how you want your ships :p.

thanks for the feedback - your right, i need to have another look at those sensors

so i definitely don't need any sensors/fire control on the actual missile?

cheers

[MarcAFK]

The launching ship needs a fire control with good resolution and enough range to reach the target ship.
The target must be visible on an active sensor, but this can be on any ship you control, even if it's a PDC on earth with a range of 50 billion kilometers, or even a fighter that's shadowing the target at point blank range.
Additionally , if the target vanishes from active sensors or fire control, then the missile will continue on it's current path towards the last known location of the target, if it shows up on sensors and fire control again it'll reacquire and seek it out again.
If you put sensors onto a missile if will allow the missile to target a ship in range if there's no active sensor and fire control. Missile sensors are pretty short though, but they have an additional use, when a missile makes it's final attack run it has a chance of missing whereby it will be destroyed, but if it has active sensors and detects a target after a miss it will retarget that ship.

[voteslave (OP)]

thank-you

i have learned sooo much in this thread

cheers

[voteslave (OP)]

EDIT : i've been an idiot and you can ignore all this - see reply #15 for details of the stupidity

On the class design screen there's an ordnance page, you specify what the default load out is. When you give the load ordnance command it will attempt to fill the ships magazines to that default.

A bit of a problem - when i designed an upgraded ship and added more box loaders i forgot to change the default loadout in the class design screen.  I have now built a new ship but it only loads 7 of the 10 box loaders and i don't seem to be able to add the remaining 3.  I have tried going back to the class design screen and changing the default loadout but this doesn't seem to have any effect on the ship i have already built.

So, in this above circumstance is there anyway i can fully load my newly built ships?

thanks


EDIT

Missile Load out is under Class Design, Ordnance/Fighters Tab.

If you have assigned a standard load out there, "Load Ordnance" will work from the ship screen. (You can do that even after Locking the design)

Otherwise you have to manual load your ships other the Ships Screen, Ordnance Management Tab.

The bit in bold does not seem to work for me  - though maybe i am doing something wrong

[Black]

Do you have maintenance facilities on the planet? You need them to reload box launchers from planet missile stock. And of course you need to have those missiles on the planet. It will also take some time to reload them.