Ship Boarding Squad Design

[DFNewb]

I decided to give it a go. I wanted really small boarding craft so I came up with this:

SpaceMarineAssualtShuttle class Troop Transport      250 tons       9 Crew       51.2 BP       TCS 5    TH 80    EM 0
16021 km/s      Armour 1-3       Shields 0-0       HTK 1      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 0
Maint Life 0 Years     MSP 0    AFR 49%    IFR 0.7%    1YR 6    5YR 89    Max Repair 40.00 MSP
Troop Capacity 100 tons     Boarding Capable   
Commander    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 1 months    Morale Check Required   

Magneto-plasma Drive  EP80.00 (1)    Power 80.0    Fuel Use 1104.85%    Signature 80.00    Explosion 25%
Fuel Capacity 12 000 Litres    Range 0.8 billion km (13 hours at full power)

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and planetary interaction

with 16x

SpaceMarine
Transport Size (tons) 5     Cost 1.25     Armour 20     Hit Points 20
Annual Maintenance Cost 0.16     Resupply Cost 1
Personal Weapons:      Shots 1      Penetration 10      Damage 10

Advanced Genetic Enhancement
Boarding Combat

1x

SpaceMarine HQ
Transport Size (tons) 10     Cost 10     Armour 20     Hit Points 20
Annual Maintenance Cost 1.3     Resupply Cost 0
Headquarters:    Capacity 2 000

Advanced Genetic Enhancement
Boarding Combat
Non-Combat Class

and

1x

SpaceMarine Logistics
Transport Size (tons) 10     Cost 2.5     Armour 20     Hit Points 20
Annual Maintenance Cost 0.31     Resupply Cost 0
Logistics Module - Small:      Ground Supply Points 100

Advanced Genetic Enhancement
Boarding Combat
Non-Combat Class

[DFNewb]

Oh just so you know I am pretty sure it says in the changes that only Infantry work in boarding combat:

Boarding combat in C# Aurora is similar in principle to VB6 Aurora with some adjustments for the new ground combat mechanics. The boarding attempt process is as follows:
Only a ship with a boarding-equipped troop transport bay can be ordered to make a boarding attempt
Only formations that consist entirely of infantry can take part in a boarding attempt
Boarding attempts cannot be made against ships that are faster than the ship making the boarding attempt
A fleet given the 'Attempt Boarding Action' (for a specified formation) or 'Attempt Boarding Action All Formations' will attempt to end its movement in the same location as the target ship. If that happens, a boarding attempt will be made.
The percentage chance of each individual unit (soldier) conducting a successful boarding attempt is equal to 10% x (Boarding Ship Speed / Target Ship Speed). So if the boarding ship is 10x faster than the target ship, success is automatic.
Any unit with a 'Boarding Combat' capability has double the normal chance of success. In this case, if the boarding ship is 5x faster than the target ship, success is automatic.
Any units that do not make the successful attempt are killed. If an HQ unit is lost, there is a chance the formation commander is killed based on (1/Number of HQ units), which is an automatic kill result if only one HQ exists

http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=8495.msg111751#msg111751

[DFNewb]

I had included 2 HQ units based on my understanding of the boarding action phase, where if a HQ unit is destroyed, the commander still has a 50% chance of surviving if another HQ unit is present.

That's counterintuitive, but you'll have no advantage from this chance, because that (empty) HQ's loss and this (commander's one) HQ's loss are independent events. Probability of any HQ unit's loss during boarding drop is set by boarding drop safety multiplier (~ ship velocities ratio). Alloting some size of formation to another HQ unit, you are not changing this probability at all - in that way you just doubling probability, that some HQ unit will be lost during boarding drop. That's not what you want. With current mechanics, as it described by Steve, there is no way to decrease commander's loss during boarding drop besides increasing relative velocity of dropship. You can use 1x10t HQ for 100 tons of drop formation, or 1x10t HQ for 5000 ton battalion, or 10x10t HQs for this 5000 ton battalion - there will be one and the same probability of commander's loss during drop.

Math in post below seems to check out.

Any units that do not make the successful attempt are killed. If an HQ unit is lost, there is a chance the formation commander is killed based on (1/Number of HQ units), which is an automatic kill result if only one HQ exists

[SpikeTheHobbitMage]

Suppose you have 2 HQ units and a 1 in 4 chance of successfully boarding.  That gives us the following probability matrix:
1 in 16 chance of both making it and the commander is guaranteed to survive.
6 in 16 chance of 1 HQ making it, with a 50% of the commander dying.
9 in 16 chance of both HQ failing and the commander dying.

That gives us (6/2+1) in 16 chance of success.  6/2+1=4.  4/16=1/4.

Therefore multiple HQs have no effect on the commander surviving the boarding attempt.  The only reason to include multiple HQs in a boarding party is to improve commander survival during combat.

[liveware (OP)]

I decided to give it a go. I wanted really small boarding craft so I came up with this:

SpaceMarineAssualtShuttle class Troop Transport      250 tons       9 Crew       51.2 BP       TCS 5    TH 80    EM 0
16021 km/s      Armour 1-3       Shields 0-0       HTK 1      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 0
Maint Life 0 Years     MSP 0    AFR 49%    IFR 0.7%    1YR 6    5YR 89    Max Repair 40.00 MSP
Troop Capacity 100 tons     Boarding Capable   
Commander    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 1 months    Morale Check Required   

Magneto-plasma Drive  EP80.00 (1)    Power 80.0    Fuel Use 1104.85%    Signature 80.00    Explosion 25%
Fuel Capacity 12 000 Litres    Range 0.8 billion km (13 hours at full power)

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and planetary interaction

with 16x

SpaceMarine
Transport Size (tons) 5     Cost 1.25     Armour 20     Hit Points 20
Annual Maintenance Cost 0.16     Resupply Cost 1
Personal Weapons:      Shots 1      Penetration 10      Damage 10

Advanced Genetic Enhancement
Boarding Combat

1x

SpaceMarine HQ
Transport Size (tons) 10     Cost 10     Armour 20     Hit Points 20
Annual Maintenance Cost 1.3     Resupply Cost 0
Headquarters:    Capacity 2 000

Advanced Genetic Enhancement
Boarding Combat
Non-Combat Class

and

1x

SpaceMarine Logistics
Transport Size (tons) 10     Cost 2.5     Armour 20     Hit Points 20
Annual Maintenance Cost 0.31     Resupply Cost 0
Logistics Module - Small:      Ground Supply Points 100

Advanced Genetic Enhancement
Boarding Combat
Non-Combat Class

Any reason for avoiding CAP weapons? They seem more efficient in a 'kills per ton per combat round' type of calculation but because they are heavier than PWL, PW, or PWI, they are easier for the enemy to target on a per ton basis.

[DFNewb]

I decided to give it a go. I wanted really small boarding craft so I came up with this:

SpaceMarineAssualtShuttle class Troop Transport      250 tons       9 Crew       51.2 BP       TCS 5    TH 80    EM 0
16021 km/s      Armour 1-3       Shields 0-0       HTK 1      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 0
Maint Life 0 Years     MSP 0    AFR 49%    IFR 0.7%    1YR 6    5YR 89    Max Repair 40.00 MSP
Troop Capacity 100 tons     Boarding Capable   
Commander    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 1 months    Morale Check Required   

Magneto-plasma Drive  EP80.00 (1)    Power 80.0    Fuel Use 1104.85%    Signature 80.00    Explosion 25%
Fuel Capacity 12 000 Litres    Range 0.8 billion km (13 hours at full power)

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and planetary interaction

with 16x

SpaceMarine
Transport Size (tons) 5     Cost 1.25     Armour 20     Hit Points 20
Annual Maintenance Cost 0.16     Resupply Cost 1
Personal Weapons:      Shots 1      Penetration 10      Damage 10

Advanced Genetic Enhancement
Boarding Combat

1x

SpaceMarine HQ
Transport Size (tons) 10     Cost 10     Armour 20     Hit Points 20
Annual Maintenance Cost 1.3     Resupply Cost 0
Headquarters:    Capacity 2 000

Advanced Genetic Enhancement
Boarding Combat
Non-Combat Class

and

1x

SpaceMarine Logistics
Transport Size (tons) 10     Cost 2.5     Armour 20     Hit Points 20
Annual Maintenance Cost 0.31     Resupply Cost 0
Logistics Module - Small:      Ground Supply Points 100

Advanced Genetic Enhancement
Boarding Combat
Non-Combat Class

Any reason for avoiding CAP weapons? They seem more efficient in a 'kills per ton per combat round' type of calculation but because they are heavier than PWL, PW, or PWI, they are easier for the enemy to target on a per ton basis.

I wanted more HP / bodies per formation. With the CAP it would be less than 50 percent of the hp.

Doing some math there is a 0.05 percent (1 in 2000) chance for a crew member of my tech level to kill one of my marines per combat round. My Carrier of 30ktons has 422 crew. On average 0.2 a round.
My guys will kill a crew member every hit at 12 percent chance to hit. With 16 on average: 2 dead a round. With your idea they would kill 4.8 a round each turn which is interesting but then there would only be 6 and early luck on the defenders side could lead to them winning.

Also the longer you live the better if you have GSP supplies cause I am pretty sure the enemy crew does not get it so eventually they will be only firing a quarter of the shots so surviving longer is better.

I think the CAP would be better if you had them on the defenders side for boarding combat.

If it was 1000 enemy crew just 4 shuttles (1k in my hangars is nothing) could take it on pretty well.

This is assuming no losses from boarding. Some math on lets say 5km/s enemy tells me that I would get roughly 2/3 units onboard. 4km/s would be 4/5 units safely on tho.

[Ulzgoroth]

I think the CAP would be better if you had them on the defenders side for boarding combat.

The defender has crew for meat-shields and defense bonuses, so maybe.

A boarding force walking into a hundred tons of heavily-armored CAP troopers would probably have a rather unpleasant day.

[DFNewb]

Current test against an NPR who I suspect has lower tech than me but not positive:



The ships had 0 movespeed cause they were camping a jumppoint (no boarding losses).

This is our very first combat ever and it's in their home system.

EDIT:
OK captured ships, they had a crew of 161. I lost 1 space marine in total. I do believe the enemy is affected by supply as the shots I was getting hit by were suddenly reduced after about 10 minutes of combat which also means you want your supply on your boarding parties and ships.. I could of probably captured these ships with 1 landing craft each, instead of the two each I used.

[liveware (OP)]

Current test against an NPR who I suspect has lower tech than me but not positive:



The ships had 0 movespeed cause they were camping a jumppoint (no boarding losses).

This is our very first combat ever and it's in their home system.

EDIT:
OK captured ships, they had a crew of 161. I lost 1 space marine in total. I do believe the enemy is affected by supply as the shots I was getting hit by were suddenly reduced after about 10 minutes of combat which also means you want your supply on your boarding parties and ships.. I could of probably captured these ships with 1 landing craft each, instead of the two each I used.

Good data, thanks for sharing!

[liveware (OP)]

I wanted more HP / bodies per formation. With the CAP it would be less than 50 percent of the hp.

Doing some math there is a 0.05 percent (1 in 2000) chance for a crew member of my tech level to kill one of my marines per combat round. My Carrier of 30ktons has 422 crew. On average 0.2 a round.
My guys will kill a crew member every hit at 12 percent chance to hit. With 16 on average: 2 dead a round. With your idea they would kill 4.8 a round each turn which is interesting but then there would only be 6 and early luck on the defenders side could lead to them winning.

Also the longer you live the better if you have GSP supplies cause I am pretty sure the enemy crew does not get it so eventually they will be only firing a quarter of the shots so surviving longer is better.

I think the CAP would be better if you had them on the defenders side for boarding combat.

If it was 1000 enemy crew just 4 shuttles (1k in my hangars is nothing) could take it on pretty well.

This is assuming no losses from boarding. Some math on lets say 5km/s enemy tells me that I would get roughly 2/3 units onboard. 4km/s would be 4/5 units safely on tho.

Interesting points about spreading enemy incoming fire amongst larger number of boarding troops. I have been tweaking my own formation with this in mind but I'm still on the fence about what would be best. Also, the lack of GSP for the defenders is something I had not considered, and I will be adding GSP units back to all of my formations to capitalize on this.

[DFNewb]

I wanted more HP / bodies per formation. With the CAP it would be less than 50 percent of the hp.

Doing some math there is a 0.05 percent (1 in 2000) chance for a crew member of my tech level to kill one of my marines per combat round. My Carrier of 30ktons has 422 crew. On average 0.2 a round.
My guys will kill a crew member every hit at 12 percent chance to hit. With 16 on average: 2 dead a round. With your idea they would kill 4.8 a round each turn which is interesting but then there would only be 6 and early luck on the defenders side could lead to them winning.

Also the longer you live the better if you have GSP supplies cause I am pretty sure the enemy crew does not get it so eventually they will be only firing a quarter of the shots so surviving longer is better.

I think the CAP would be better if you had them on the defenders side for boarding combat.

If it was 1000 enemy crew just 4 shuttles (1k in my hangars is nothing) could take it on pretty well.

This is assuming no losses from boarding. Some math on lets say 5km/s enemy tells me that I would get roughly 2/3 units onboard. 4km/s would be 4/5 units safely on tho.

Interesting points about spreading enemy incoming fire amongst larger number of boarding troops. I have been tweaking my own formation with this in mind but I'm still on the fence about what would be best. Also, the lack of GSP for the defenders is something I had not considered, and I will be adding GSP units back to all of my formations to capitalize on this.

I am not so sure the GSP is being taking into account in the boarding combat cause my own units don't seem to be losing any GSP while fighting.

[liveware (OP)]

I think I have tweaked my designs enough. Here are my final formations that I will be sending into battle:

Code: [Select]

Light Boarding Squadron
Transport Size: 98 tons
Build Cost: 437.5 BP
1x Light Squadron Command Mech
1x Light Supply Mech
13x Light Automatic Rifle Mech

#############################
Medium Boarding Squadron
Transport Size: 98 tons
Build Cost: 437.5 BP
1x Light Squadron Command Mech
1x Light Supply Mech
11x Light Automatic Rifle Mech
1x Light Pulse Rifle Mech

#############################
Heavy Boarding Squadron
Transport Size: 100 tons
Build Cost: 447.4 BP
1x Light Squadron Command Mech
1x Light Supply Mech
10x Light Automatic Rifle Mech
1x Light Pulse Cannon Mech


Based on DFNewb's troop performance, I think my troops will perform adequately and that my boarding shuttle will work reasonably well. I will probably test my boarding troops against some 5k ton targets that my local hostile NPR usually sends to investigate my scout ships. I hope to be able to get some of these units field tested soon.

[DFNewb]

I think I have tweaked my designs enough. Here are my final formations that I will be sending into battle:

Code: [Select]

Light Boarding Squadron
Transport Size: 98 tons
Build Cost: 437.5 BP
1x Light Squadron Command Mech
1x Light Supply Mech
13x Light Automatic Rifle Mech

#############################
Medium Boarding Squadron
Transport Size: 98 tons
Build Cost: 437.5 BP
1x Light Squadron Command Mech
1x Light Supply Mech
11x Light Automatic Rifle Mech
1x Light Pulse Rifle Mech

#############################
Heavy Boarding Squadron
Transport Size: 100 tons
Build Cost: 447.4 BP
1x Light Squadron Command Mech
1x Light Supply Mech
10x Light Automatic Rifle Mech
1x Light Pulse Cannon Mech


Based on DFNewb's troop performance, I think my troops will perform adequately and that my boarding shuttle will work reasonably well. I will probably test my boarding troops against some 5k ton targets that my local hostile NPR usually sends to investigate my scout ships. I hope to be able to get some of these units field tested soon.

Again keep in mind: Only Infantry can do boarding. Also the GSP does not seem to be used in boarding combat so it's only needed if these units might fight on the ground with no support.

[Ulzgoroth]

Again keep in mind: Only Infantry can do boarding. Also the GSP does not seem to be used in boarding combat so it's only needed if these units might fight on the ground with no support.

Didn't you just report that supply did seem to matter in boarding combat?

Also, all those 'Light ... Mech' units are infantry. Don't be mislead by the name. I assume it's something to do with liveware's race RP concept.

[DFNewb]

Again keep in mind: Only Infantry can do boarding. Also the GSP does not seem to be used in boarding combat so it's only needed if these units might fight on the ground with no support.

Didn't you just report that supply did seem to matter in boarding combat?

Also, all those 'Light ... Mech' units are infantry. Don't be mislead by the name. I assume it's something to do with liveware's race RP concept.

Yes but then I tested out boarding parties with just 20 marines in them and they were fine after the tenth round.