Author Topic: Survey Ship and buoy design  (Read 2259 times)

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Offline Jaz010 (OP)

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Survey Ship and buoy design
« on: May 31, 2020, 03:31:50 PM »
Hello,
I want my survey ships to be able to drop buoy with Active Sensor on the Jump point they discover, below the designs that I am using .  this is the first time I design a Buy so it may be flawed.  Moreover, when I get to the jump point, I am not able to release the buoy ( I tried "Launch Ready Ordinace)

Any help / Comment on the design is appreciated.

----------------SURVEY SHIP------------------------------------GEC Abel Tasman  (Darwin - MK3 class Geological Survey Craft)      4,561 tons       108 Crew       723. 3 BP       TCS 91    TH 70    EM 0
2192 km/s    JR 3-50      Armour 5-24       Shields 0-0       HTK 28      Sensors 11/11/1/1      DCR 2      PPV 0. 2
Maint Life 6. 41 Years     MSP 1,078    AFR 83%    IFR 1. 2%    1YR 45    5YR 677    Max Repair 100 MSP
Magazine 19   
Commander    Control Rating 2   BRG   SCI   
Intended Deployment Time: 60 months    Morale Check Required   

J5000(3-50) Military Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 5000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 3

Commercial Magneto-plasma Drive  EP200. 0 (1)    Power 200. 0    Fuel Use 5. 59%    Signature 70. 000    Explosion 5%
Fuel Capacity 250,000 Litres    Range 176. 5 billion km (931 days at full power)

Buyos Launcher S1 (1)     Missile Size: 1    Rate of Fire 750
Buyos FC (1)     Range 17. 4m km    Resolution 100
Buyos S! Active 6. 5M (18)    Speed: 1,600 km/s    End: 0m     Range: 0m km    WH: 0    Size: 1    TH: 5/3/1

Active Search Sensor AS8-R1 (1)     GPS 21     Range 8. 6m km    MCR 771. 7k km    Resolution 1
Active Search Sensor AS39-R100 (1)     GPS 2100     Range 39. 8m km    Resolution 100
Thermal Sensor TH1. 0-11. 0 (1)     Sensitivity 11     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  26. 2m km
EM Sensor EM1. 0-11. 0 (1)     Sensitivity 11     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  26. 2m km
Gravitational Survey Sensors (1)   1 Survey Points Per Hour
Geological Survey Sensors (1)   1 Survey Points Per Hour

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

---------------------------------------BUOY ----------------------------------------------------------
Missile Size: 1 MSP  (2. 5 Tons)     Warhead: 0    Radiation Damage: 0    Manoeuvre Rating: 10
Speed: 1,600 km/s     Fuel: 0     Flight Time: 0 seconds     Range: 0 km
Active Sensor Strength: 0. 57   EM Sensitivity Modifier: 11
Resolution: 100    Maximum Range vs 5000 ton object (or larger): 6,557,299 km
Cost Per Missile: 0. 952     Development Cost: 95
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 16. 0%   3k km/s 5. 3%   5k km/s 3. 2%   10k km/s 1. 6%


 

Offline Froggiest1982

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Re: Survey Ship and buoy design
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2020, 04:05:55 PM »
Hello,
I want my survey ships to be able to drop buoy with Active Sensor on the Jump point they discover, below the designs that I am using .  this is the first time I design a Buy so it may be flawed.  Moreover, when I get to the jump point, I am not able to release the buoy ( I tried "Launch Ready Ordinace)

Any help / Comment on the design is appreciated.

----------------SURVEY SHIP------------------------------------GEC Abel Tasman  (Darwin - MK3 class Geological Survey Craft)      4,561 tons       108 Crew       723. 3 BP       TCS 91    TH 70    EM 0
2192 km/s    JR 3-50      Armour 5-24       Shields 0-0       HTK 28      Sensors 11/11/1/1      DCR 2      PPV 0. 2
Maint Life 6. 41 Years     MSP 1,078    AFR 83%    IFR 1. 2%    1YR 45    5YR 677    Max Repair 100 MSP
Magazine 19   
Commander    Control Rating 2   BRG   SCI   
Intended Deployment Time: 60 months    Morale Check Required   

J5000(3-50) Military Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 5000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 3

Commercial Magneto-plasma Drive  EP200. 0 (1)    Power 200. 0    Fuel Use 5. 59%    Signature 70. 000    Explosion 5%
Fuel Capacity 250,000 Litres    Range 176. 5 billion km (931 days at full power)

Buyos Launcher S1 (1)     Missile Size: 1    Rate of Fire 750
Buyos FC (1)     Range 17. 4m km    Resolution 100
Buyos S! Active 6. 5M (18)    Speed: 1,600 km/s    End: 0m     Range: 0m km    WH: 0    Size: 1    TH: 5/3/1

Active Search Sensor AS8-R1 (1)     GPS 21     Range 8. 6m km    MCR 771. 7k km    Resolution 1
Active Search Sensor AS39-R100 (1)     GPS 2100     Range 39. 8m km    Resolution 100
Thermal Sensor TH1. 0-11. 0 (1)     Sensitivity 11     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  26. 2m km
EM Sensor EM1. 0-11. 0 (1)     Sensitivity 11     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  26. 2m km
Gravitational Survey Sensors (1)   1 Survey Points Per Hour
Geological Survey Sensors (1)   1 Survey Points Per Hour

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

---------------------------------------BUOY ----------------------------------------------------------
Missile Size: 1 MSP  (2. 5 Tons)     Warhead: 0    Radiation Damage: 0    Manoeuvre Rating: 10
Speed: 1,600 km/s     Fuel: 0     Flight Time: 0 seconds     Range: 0 km
Active Sensor Strength: 0. 57   EM Sensitivity Modifier: 11
Resolution: 100    Maximum Range vs 5000 ton object (or larger): 6,557,299 km
Cost Per Missile: 0. 952     Development Cost: 95
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 16. 0%   3k km/s 5. 3%   5k km/s 3. 2%   10k km/s 1. 6%

I use something very similar.

You can save space and gain range/speed reducing the FC to the minimum size 0.1 and components all base. You don't potentially even need an FC to drop buoys just FYI.

Also, I would get rid of the Active Sensor with 1 res. That is effective to see missiles most as AMM requirements. Since you don't have any AMM it doesn't really matter if you can see when you eventually are going to die.

If you want you could replace all the above with CIWS, this may give you a bit of protection (probably not enough anyway) against missiles.

Last but not least is the MSP. With the deployment of 5 Years, you need way more. With my formula, I think we are on the 27,000 range but that is the worst-case scenario. Surely not less than 10,000 anyway.

Offline Elvin

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Re: Survey Ship and buoy design
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2020, 04:33:25 PM »
Last but not least is the MSP. With the deployment of 5 Years, you need way more. With my formula, I think we are on the 27,000 range but that is the worst-case scenario. Surely not less than 10,000 anyway.

I'm curious where you got this number from? Are you trying to work out the maximum possible value that it could be after 5 years, e.g. if the maximum repair item failed on every tick? I ask as your number seems very far from the design's 5YR MSP average requirement of 677. The 1K MSP, with an average lifetime of 6.71 years, looks like a good value to use. It seems like complete overkill to try and plan for the worst possible outcome of maintenance supplies, especially as you can always just cut your deployment short if you run low using conditional orders.
 
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Offline Froggiest1982

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Re: Survey Ship and buoy design
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2020, 04:58:11 PM »
Last but not least is the MSP. With the deployment of 5 Years, you need way more. With my formula, I think we are on the 27,000 range but that is the worst-case scenario. Surely not less than 10,000 anyway.

I'm curious where you got this number from? Are you trying to work out the maximum possible value that it could be after 5 years, e.g. if the maximum repair item failed on every tick? I ask as your number seems very far from the design's 5YR MSP average requirement of 677. The 1K MSP, with an average lifetime of 6.71 years, looks like a good value to use. It seems like complete overkill to try and plan for the worst possible outcome of maintenance supplies, especially as you can always just cut your deployment short if you run low using conditional orders.

These numbers are okay with VB6 Aurora but since C# has been changed I don't think Steve has actually updated them. Oh well, it might have but the formula would be insane and still it is impossible to predict. Anyway, the main factor is that on the 5th year your ship will have 83%AFR x 5. This is a 415% failure rate. You can expect to use a lot of MSP from year 3 onwards. So assuming you'll have been lucky till then you should be okayish. A remedy to that would be adding more engineering so you can keep your AFR around 20% which will result over time in an AFR of 100% or sort of. You can still use the 5Y as a benchmark from the original formula but then people tend to multiply that by 3.

Probably 27,000 is too much considering is a scout but if it was a warship considering the weapons extra failure rate again added in C# and some casual skirmish which could always occur I would certainly go for at least the 10,000 I recommended. That would be balanced by the fact your max MSP would probably triple in a warship.

It's true though that you have fuel only for 3 years and this should be put into consideration but a geo ship will spend some time standing still not consuming fuel so you could hit the 5 years potentially.

You can find more info on how to evaluate your MSP here http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=11055.0

EDIT: Please I noted now that my 3-year-old daughter was pretending to play and actually added a decimal to my formula. So yes for your design I would have gone for 2,700 MSP. The above still stands with 1,000 which can be used but could be quite thin

Sorry for the confusion, but at least I could correct my formula. So thanks for your post!
« Last Edit: May 31, 2020, 05:12:12 PM by froggiest1982 »
 
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Offline serger

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Re: Survey Ship and buoy design
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2020, 01:12:29 AM »
Hello,
I want my survey ships to be able to drop buoy with Active Sensor on the Jump point they discover, below the designs that I am using .  this is the first time I design a Buy so it may be flawed.  Moreover, when I get to the jump point, I am not able to release the buoy ( I tried "Launch Ready Ordinace)

Any help / Comment on the design is appreciated.

First, check if your buois are loaded to your ship (Fleet Organization window, select your ship, hit Ordnance Template in the lower line of tabs).
Second, check if your launcher is connected to the fire control, and buoy is connected to the launcher (Fleet Organization window, select your ship, hit Ship Combat tab, drag-and-drop launcher to fire control, buoy to launcher if still neaded).

In addition, it seems that you can optimize your buoy design:
1. There is no need to have engines on your buoy, try to set "No Engine" check-box on, and use free space to enlarge radar or add passive sensors (sometimes those buois are getting something huge and angry, that can be spotted on thermal/EM far beyong radar range, and this way you can get primary intel about their radars and engines).
2. I'd say that 5000-ton resolution for jump point buoy is too low - you'll have overabundant range against frigate-to-destroyer-rank ships, while alien fast attack crafts or small scouts will have their chances to avoid detection using squadron jump (with outbound deviation from JP's central point). I'll set resolution to 1000 or even 750 ton, based on VB-7.1-version experience, though I haven't tested it well in current version.
 

Offline chrislocke2000

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Re: Survey Ship and buoy design
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2020, 02:43:49 AM »
A few thoughts on this:

- You have mixed commercial engines with a military jump drive so wont be able to jump. I'd suggest reducing your engine efficiency to 55% to just tick into a military engine.

- With a box launcher you wont be able to reload those missiles, increase the size of it to the 30% reduction tube so you can make use of the magazine.

- Given how slow the ship is I'd think that the armor is not going to save you. Possibly you can reduce this to deal with the above.
 

Offline vorpal+5

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Re: Survey Ship and buoy design
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2020, 03:46:04 AM »
Should the buoy not have endurance in the months range? Or can it stay in space indefinitively?
 

Offline serger

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Re: Survey Ship and buoy design
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2020, 12:23:07 PM »
Should the buoy not have endurance in the months range? Or can it stay in space indefinitively?
No engine - no endurance.
 

Offline liveware

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Re: Survey Ship and buoy design
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2020, 06:24:39 PM »
Should the buoy not have endurance in the months range? Or can it stay in space indefinitively?
No engine - no endurance.

Not true. No engine = infinite endurance. Quite different.
Open the pod-bay doors HAL...
 

Offline serger

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Re: Survey Ship and buoy design
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2020, 01:21:05 AM »
Not true. No engine = infinite endurance. Quite different.
Well, agree, my wording was more sonorous than accurate.  :)