Fighter in Early Technology Era, what should I do?

[Brainsucker (OP)]

I want to make a fighter for early technology era (research level 0, in Nuclear Thermal Engine Era), but no weapon can fit to it's small (250 tonnage) body.   Even laser weapon need bigger space that can't even fit to a light fighter.   So can anybody give me ideas and designs?

So, maybe I can put a size 1 missile launcher (50 ton) but what role would this small guy can do with 1 small missile on each sorties ?

[Erik L]

I want to make a fighter for early technology era (research level 0, in Nuclear Thermal Engine Era), but no weapon can fit to it's small (250 tonnage) body.   Even laser weapon need bigger space that can't even fit to a light fighter.   So can anybody give me ideas and designs?

So, maybe I can put a size 1 missile launcher (50 ton) but what role would this small guy can do with 1 small missile on each sorties ?

CAP or PD.

[joeclark77]

If your missile launchers are 50 tons, you should be able to fit two of them on there.  Use another 2HS for fighter engines, and the last HS for a little fire control and a small/tiny fuel tank.  Make sure you remove the bridge and the normal-sized fuel tank.

Two little missiles by themselves won't do very much.  But build 40 of these fighters (to fill 10000 of hangar space), and you can launch a volley of 80 missiles.  That could be fairly annoying to an enemy ship if you catch it alone.

But seriously, prioritize research into smaller missile launchers!  And everything else!

[Brainsucker (OP)]

To be honest, I want to re-produce the feel of Wing Commander Game; where I will focus on fighter instead of capital ship.  I use the online reference for this, but I think I can't make a perfect replica for the fighters.  well, I don't know.  Wing Commanders was known to have a lot of fighter type. 

[ddblackhawk]

The one problem I have found in this game is the massive size of so called 'fighter' craft, even the modern B2 stealth bomber is only 152tons, while the smallest viable fighter design and low to mid tech is about 250 tons (as joeclark said).  I've found that if I think of fighters as equivalent to small naval patrol boats the game makes a bit more sense.

If you truly want a 250ton fighter analogue then you really need to get reduced size launchers, box launchers are of course the best for this, but they require quite a bit of research.  Assuming no prior research in size reduction it takes 22 000 research points to get to box launchers.  You have said that you want an early design, perhaps use 1/3 size launchers as that only requires 6 000 research points.  Using a Tiny Engineering Bay and Tiny Fuel Storage (6 000, and 4 000 research points respectively) you can create a 242ton fighter with 3 size 1 33% size reduction launchers, or a 259ton fighter with 4 launchers.

Of course these take 600 seconds to reload if you have not researched any reload speed techs, and would require them to land on their carrier to do so as there is no room for a magazine without adding another 50tons to the design.

Random Example

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P11 Salamander class Fighter    259 tons     9 Crew     123.38 BP      TCS 5.17  TH 19.2  EM 0
15473 km/s     Armour 1-3     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 1.32
Maint Life 18.55 Years     MSP 75    AFR 2%    IFR 0%    1YR 0    5YR 6    Max Repair 80 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 1 months    Spare Berths 1   
Magazine 4   

Tier 4 - SC Magneto Plasma EP80 FC05 TS19.2 (1)    Power 80    Fuel Use 484.22%    Signature 19.2    Exp 25%
Fuel Capacity 5,000 Litres    Range 0.7 billion km   (12 hours at full power)

Tier 0 - Missile Launcher S1R33 (4)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 600
Tier 4 - Missile FC R1 MR11 S1 (1)     Range 11.8m km    Resolution 1
Tier 4 - AMM MR27 CTH38 (3)  Speed: 57,600 km/s   End: 1.4m    Range: 4.9m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 518 / 311 / 155

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes
Ignoring the higher tech fire control, engine, and missiles, this design uses a size 2 engine, size 1 fc, and a tiny engineering space and fuel storage. which leaves you 1.45HS to use for weapons.

Hope this helps,
BlackHawk

[Brainsucker (OP)]

Maybe the game needs low tech direct attack weapon (different than Laser etc that doesn't need anything but low in damage) like vulcan gun or others; and they need  fighter hard point technology for fighters. Well, even in sea battle irl, fighters have dominant role. So this game should have more techs for fighters. But in this game, there are limited choice to design fighters. Especially at early stage of the game.

[Maltay]

That lack of fighters in the earlier game does not seem odd to me.  I will try to explain.

There is an evolution to how we conduct naval combat based on our technology.  You can see this in our shift from shore batteries, to surface combatants, to deck space for naval aviation, to the modern advent of stand off attacks with cruise missiles.

I think seeing the same style of evolution in Aurora based on technology is equally fascinating.

[sublight]

The old 250 ton recommendation from 5.x no longer applies now that fighters can have multiple engines. Large 500 ton heavy fighters are valid, and probably the only way to go at the really early tech levels.

For people thinking 500 tons is way to heavy for a fighter (ddblackhawk) remember that the tonnage refers to a volumetric displacement. AKA: cu m. Thinking in volume, a fighter is anything less than 500 cu m. A 747 freight plane, by comparison, has about 750 cu m of internal cargo volume, so you could hypothetically park two or three 250 ton (cu m) fighters inside a 747 if you optimize linear dimensions.

Anyway, at Tech Level 1 I came up with:
3 HS 10cm C1 Laser (or any other 3HS beam weapon of choice)
2 HS 2x 5EP 100% Thermal Drives
1.1 HS single layer Duranium
1 HS Fighter Fire control, 2x range 0.5x speed
1 HS Engineering
0.8 HS Crew Quarters
0.5 HS Water Reactor
0.2 HS Small Fuel Storage
--------------------------------
Size: 480 Ton, 1041 km/s speed,  8 month deployment time, 3.8 b km range.

If you want to use this as an independent jump picket add a 0.2 HS active scanner.
If this is operating from a hanger dial the deployment time back and replace the engineering with an extra engine.

Best Improvement for 5k RP:
Small Engineering (2k RP): 0.5HS savings. Get this if you use Engineering.
Engine Power x1.25 (1k RP): +25% faster
High Density Duranium: (2.5k RP): 0.2HS savings for large fighters.

Alternatively, if you want missiles replace High Density Duranium with Missile Reduction 75% and 50% (3k RP)


Here's what I would built if I had just 5k RP of theoretical tech:

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Crystal Rain Fighter   475 tons  12 crew   57.5 BP   TCS 9.5  TH12  EM 0
1263 km/s   Armor 1-5   Shields 0-0   Sensors 1/1/0/0
Main Life 21.13 years   MSP 38   AFR 3%   Max Repair 12 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 8 months
Magazine 21

6.25 EP 1x125(2)  Power 6.25  Fuel Use 172.9%
Fuel Capacity 10,000 Litters   Range 2.2 billion km

Size 3 Missile Launcher (50% reduction) (2)   Rate of Fire 450
M-Fire-Con S1.2 FC18-R100 (1)   Range 18.0m km   Resolution 100
S3 LightShot (6) Speed 7,900 km/s   Range 62.6m km  WH:2   TH: 26/15/7

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat, and maintenance purposes
Personally, I don't think Size-1 missiles are practical at a 0-RP start, so I used size 3, but could have used a single reduced size 5 if I wanted the Crystal to fire full size WH-4 ASMs. The Crystal would of course need to operating alongside a designated scout's active scanner.

[joeclark77]

a tiny engineering space

I don't think engineering spaces are necessary.  The fighter is going to be out of its hangar for 1-2 days max, fire its missiles, and re-dock.  It's not going to be having breakdowns and making field repairs.


By the way, if you set your intended deployment time to 0.1 months (3 days) it will cut down the crew requirements dramatically, usually to just one crewman.  That also saves you space.  And remember to remove the bridge, fuel storage, and engineering spaces that are there by default.

[Alfapiomega]

Can anyone post a small sized early-game laser/railgun fighter? I am thinking of using them to patrol and defend homeworld while using the shipyards for economy boost but I am not sure if it's viable/possible as you all keep talking about missile fighters.

[GreatTuna]

Can anyone post a small sized early-game laser/railgun fighter? I am thinking of using them to patrol and defend homeworld while using the shipyards for economy boost but I am not sure if it's viable/possible as you all keep talking about missile fighters.

Well. . .

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Atlas class Fighter    500 tons     10 Crew     34 BP      TCS 10  TH 15  EM 0
1500 km/s     Armour 1-5     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 3
Maint Life 36.64 Years     MSP 42    AFR 2%    IFR 0%    1YR 0    5YR 1    Max Repair 7.5 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 0.5 months    Spare Berths 2   

15 EP Nuclear Thermal Engine (1)    Power 15    Fuel Use 97%    Signature 15    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 10 000 Litres    Range 3.7 billion km   (28 days at full power)

10cm Railgun V1/C1 (1x4)    Range 10 000km     TS: 1500 km/s     Power 3-1     RM 1    ROF 15        1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S01 10-1250 (FTR) (1)    Max Range: 20 000 km   TS: 5000 km/s     50 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Pressurised Water Reactor PB-1 (1)     Total Power Output 1    Armour 0    Exp 5%

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes
This is design you asked for.  Early-game (0RP aside from modules), armed with railgun, though you can easily replace it with laser.

[joeclark77]

Can anyone post a small sized early-game laser/railgun fighter? I am thinking of using them to patrol and defend homeworld while using the shipyards for economy boost but I am not sure if it's viable/possible as you all keep talking about missile fighters.

I would like to know how to do this, too.  The problem is that most energy weapons cannot be reduced in size.  Lasers and gauss guns are the exceptions, however, reduced-size laser tech takes a long time to research, and gauss guns lose accuracy if you decrease them in size.  I would suggest trying gauss fighters early on, and laser fighters later.  

Meson or microwave fighters would probably push the definition of "fighter", coming in close to 500T, but those weapons might be worth it because they ignore armor.  Of course there are some energy weapons I've never tried, so I might be missing something.  Looking forward to what others have found.

[joeclark77]

This is design you asked for.  Early-game (0RP aside from modules), armed with railgun, though you can easily replace it with laser.

Remove the engineering spaces and bridge if it has one.  Cut deployment time to 0.1 month (aka 3 days).  That might enable you to squeeze a second engine on.

[GreatTuna]

Remove the engineering spaces and bridge if it has one.    Cut deployment time to 0.  1 month (aka 3 days).    That might enable you to squeeze a second engine on. 

I don't think he has carriers to perform maintenance to his fighters, and without carriers (and without eng spaces) they will break down horribly and explode.  .  . 
Anyway, here's the version without engineering spaces:

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Atlas Updated class Fighter    495 tons     3 Crew     25.5 BP      TCS 9.9  TH 20  EM 0
2020 km/s     Armour 1-5     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 3
Maint Life 0 Years     MSP 0    AFR 99%    IFR 1.4%    1YR 4    5YR 65    Max Repair 10 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 0.1 months    Spare Berths 7   

20 EP Nuclear Thermal Engine (1)    Power 20    Fuel Use 96%    Signature 20    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 10 000 Litres    Range 3.8 billion km   (21 days at full power)

10cm Railgun V1/C1 (1x4)    Range 10 000km     TS: 2020 km/s     Power 3-1     RM 1    ROF 15        1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S01 10-1250 (FTR) (1)    Max Range: 20 000 km   TS: 5000 km/s     50 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Pressurised Water Reactor PB-1 (1)     Total Power Output 1    Armour 0    Exp 5%

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes


[joeclark77]

I don't think he has carriers to perform maintenance to his fighters, and without carriers (and without eng spaces) they will break down horribly and explode.  .  . 

Well, he could build some PDCs that are nothing but hangar bays, fuel tanks, and maintenance storage.  That's a good idea even if you have carriers, because it lets you store new fighters while your carriers are away from Earth, and to keep old fighters in service after the carriers have acquired the latest and greatest.