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Posted by: Crustypeanut
« on: November 07, 2011, 06:16:36 PM »

I do believe my ships will have a fun time against beam weapons, thats for sure.   But heres the thing - if my ships can get close enough, the sheer volume of shots being fired should prove strong enough.

I hope.
Posted by: Yonder
« on: November 07, 2011, 10:24:35 AM »

Haha, I am doing a no-missile game right now as well (or I was, before the infinite error messages I posted in the bug thread killed my game. I'm not sure what I'll do now).

My rational was that after a devastating World War III that humanity barely survived (happening at the opening of the Trans-Newtonian period) All nuclear weapons have been banned and scrapped, and military vessels can not arm missiles, since they can attack inhabited planets. (Meson weapons are something known as a theoretical possibility among the scientific community, but since they have never been implemented outside of a lab or fired in anger there was no political will to ban them. Even if they did exist they probably wouldn't have been banned since they aren't exactly able to wipe out cities and kill millions at a time.

At the start of the game all previous military vessels had been scrapped, the only military force left was the new four large orbital point defense bases constructed with starting laser tech in order to defend any populations against space or land fired missiles that had survived the purge. (I had put all of the military portion of my starting tech into missiles, to fit with the back story, each 8000 ton Shield PDB would struggle to keep up with a missile attack from a single 5000 ton "Archer"--the ship I designed at the beginning of the game to represent the best of the last-generation missile ships that was scrapped).

An amusing sidenote is that 25 years into my game my two Energy Weapons scientists had died, leaving me with 4 or 5 really nice Missile/Kinetic scientists.
Posted by: Charlie Beeler
« on: November 07, 2011, 07:58:42 AM »

The is one thing it doesn't look like you've taken into consideration, NPR beam armed ships.  You've armed your fleet with the shortest ranged beam in the game.  This is going to be especially telling when facing meson armed ships. 
Posted by: Crustypeanut
« on: November 06, 2011, 04:52:26 PM »

Lol well, tell you one thing - my first combat did NOT go well. 

Its not that my ships were designed poorly, as they did last a while, its that 2 things:

We were only slightly faster than our enemy, so we couldn't catch up to him fast enough. 

And the big one: Our turrets were NOT meant for 40k km/s missiles.    They were meant for 1/4th of that. 

--

Found out the enemy (Who is either you-know-what, or just an advanced NPR who is impossible to communicate with) is based on a venus-like planet that has too high of gravity for human life.   Named it Valaksjalf, and I shall eventually colonize it with a group of genetically modified humans known as the Aesir! Once I get around to conquering it, of course.
Posted by: Crustypeanut
« on: November 06, 2011, 05:52:43 AM »

Well I found my first enemies, one system away from Sol in the system Ásgarðr.   Beautiful, beautiful system, one of the gas giants has TWO moons with colony cost 2x on them.  Named one Asgard and the other Valhalla.   No thermal signatures from my scout ship when it went to do a geological survey, but a number of ships jumped me during the survey.   I think they're you-know-what.   My ship didn't stand a chance, as it was a simple survey vessel.

Seeing as their speed is over 5000 km/s, I'm going to research new engines before I go in there.   Plus, my fleet is on training exercise still.
Posted by: HaliRyan
« on: November 06, 2011, 05:21:19 AM »

Well, it can certainly work. I look forward to hearing about your experiences with them.  :)
Posted by: Crustypeanut
« on: November 06, 2011, 05:16:40 AM »

Aye I'm aware they only target missiles fired against the ship mounting them.   

I'll probably include far more turrets and fire controls when I start building bigger ships.   For now, since each ship is small, I like to have a semi-self contained defense, so that no ship is left defenseless in case of a missing (or destroyed) escort.
Posted by: HaliRyan
« on: November 06, 2011, 05:13:54 AM »

The thing about those CIWS is that they can only target missiles fired against the ship mounting them, so they're essentially wasted space most of the time in a fleet. With more fire controls and turrets you'll actually have better overall defense.
Posted by: Crustypeanut
« on: November 06, 2011, 04:31:53 AM »

It does make perfect sense, but I have a few reasons why I'm still using a ton of CIWS:

Since each CIWS has its own built in Fire controls, each one can fire on different salvos, if needed.   Plus, since each ship has at least one CIWS, even if my escorts are preoccupied, all of my ships will at least have some defense.

As for my escorts, each one has two fire controls with three single turrets apiece.   I suppose I could've sacrificed their CIWS in place of another 4 fire controls, allowing each turret its own fire control, but I'm fine with my current decision.

I'm still assembling the fleet, so we'll see how it works when I meet some neighbors.   If I die, I die.   I mean, as we say over on the Dwarf Fortress forums, Losing is FUN!
Posted by: HaliRyan
« on: November 06, 2011, 04:22:11 AM »

The thing I discovered very quickly was that if you're building a fleet don't use any CIWS. You want gauss cannons with lots of fire controls. I lost a couple ships to missiles because even though I had the accuracy and number of shots to destroy every oncoming missile, I didn't have the fire controls to target more than a few of the salvos at once. So when 20 salvos came in I had loads of wasted shots and most of them got through.

On the other hand I have several big 100kt battleships designed for solo work, and they use CIWS exclusively since there's no point using normal gauss if you don't have multiple ships supporting each other on PD.

Hope that made sense, it's 6am.  :-X
Posted by: Mel Vixen
« on: November 06, 2011, 04:15:58 AM »

Thats an fairly odd choice. Gauswepons are normaly sidearms for PD but still i would advise to incrasethe Turnspeed of that turrets and the trackingspeed of the fire control so you can shot down any missiles comming your way.
Posted by: Crustypeanut
« on: November 06, 2011, 03:47:53 AM »

Well, I'm aiming for mainly using gauss cannons for my primary weapon, especially since I have a kinetics weapon researcher with 40% bonus that can use 40 labs at a time (which I have).   

All of these are rather short range too, I don't expect to fight anyone more than 2-3 systems from any maintenance/fuel stations for now.  I'm playing it nice and slow.
Posted by: Mel Vixen
« on: November 06, 2011, 03:35:43 AM »

The gaus cannons of the sifclass have only a range of 30k. I would suggest you also pack some other weapons like a lowgrade laser or if you need range desperately a particle-ray with 2 range upgrades. On such short ranges plasma carronades work also much better damage wise then the turrets. They do have thought their uses if you increase the tracking speed 2 or 3 times the same goes for the firecontrol. A twin laser-turret would maybe suit you.

For combat troop transport i prefer a carrier and some unarmed low-armor combatdrop-ships with as much enginepower as possible. Because i these carrier has normaly a considerable size in my campaigns i tend to outfit them with the biggest sensors i have and couple of turrets. Dont forget to research marines in Logistics.

You will also need a tanker to get some longrange missions done. My first hostile contacts in my latest campaign were 12 jumps from sol.
Posted by: Crustypeanut
« on: November 06, 2011, 02:15:36 AM »

Quote from: HaliRyan link=topic=4243.  msg42616#msg42616 date=1320566659
I'm doing exactly this in my current game, it's great.   =D

Can you show me a few ship designs? I want to see if I'm designing my ships so that they'll survive :P  I'll post my three current designs:

First ship is the main assault ship, meant to simply shoot everything at its target.   Second ship is the escort and helps protect the other destroyers.  Third ship is the leader, and has a set of good sensors.   Fourth ship isn't designed yet, but will be a combat troop transport.

Quote
Sif class Destroyer    3,000 tons     189 Crew     459.  2 BP      TCS 60  TH 180  EM 0
3000 km/s     Armour 3-18     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 12
Maint Life 2.  51 Years     MSP 96    AFR 72%    IFR 1%    1YR 21    5YR 317    Max Repair 48 MSP

Military Ion Engine E8 (3)    Power 60    Fuel Use 80%    Signature 60    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 150,000 Litres    Range 112.  5 billion km   (434 days at full power)

Gauss Cannon R3-33 (3x4)    Range 30,000km     TS: 4000 km/s     Accuracy Modifier 33%     RM 3    ROF 5        1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Gauss Cannon R3-100 (1x4)    Range 30,000km     TS: 4000 km/s     Accuracy Modifier 100%     RM 3    ROF 5        1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
CIWS-160 (2x8)    Range 1000 km     TS: 16000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Fire Control S02 48-4000 H70 (1)    Max Range: 96,000 km   TS: 4000 km/s     90 79 69 58 48 38 27 17 6 0

Active Search Sensor MR1-R1 (70%) (1)     GPS 24     Range 1.  9m km    Resolution 1

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Quote
Uller class Destroyer Escort    3,000 tons     190 Crew     485.  4 BP      TCS 60  TH 180  EM 0
3000 km/s     Armour 4-18     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 15
Maint Life 2.  98 Years     MSP 101    AFR 72%    IFR 1%    1YR 17    5YR 255    Max Repair 41 MSP

Military Ion Engine E8 (3)    Power 60    Fuel Use 80%    Signature 60    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 150,000 Litres    Range 112.  5 billion km   (434 days at full power)

Single Gauss Cannon R3-33 Turret (6x4)    Range 30,000km     TS: 10000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 3    ROF 5        1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
CIWS-160 (1x8)    Range 1000 km     TS: 16000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Fire Control S02 24-8000 H70 (2)    Max Range: 48,000 km   TS: 8000 km/s     79 58 38 17 0 0 0 0 0 0

Active Search Sensor MR1-R1 (70%) (1)     GPS 24     Range 1.  9m km    Resolution 1

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Quote
Odur class Destroyer Leader    3,000 tons     166 Crew     464.  2 BP      TCS 60  TH 180  EM 0
3000 km/s     Armour 6-18     Shields 0-0     Sensors 16/16/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 0
Maint Life 2.  4 Years     MSP 97    AFR 72%    IFR 1%    1YR 23    5YR 346    Max Repair 75 MSP

Military Ion Engine E8 (3)    Power 60    Fuel Use 80%    Signature 60    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 150,000 Litres    Range 112.  5 billion km   (434 days at full power)

CIWS-160 (2x8)    Range 1000 km     TS: 16000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Active Search Sensor MR4-R1 (70%) (1)     GPS 60     Range 4.  8m km    Resolution 1
Thermal Sensor TH2-16 (1)     Sensitivity 16     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  16m km
EM Detection Sensor EM2-16 (70%) (1)     Sensitivity 16     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  16m km

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes


Posted by: HaliRyan
« on: November 06, 2011, 02:04:19 AM »

Personally, I'm playing a game where *I* don't use missiles at all.   I haven't met any aliens yet, but I'm building my defenses for them.   Much of my defense revolves around CIWS and gauss cannons, since I know they'll be using missiles galore.  On every dedicated anti-missile ship I'm putting numerous quad gauss cannons with as much accuracy as possible.   Every single ship of mine also has CIWS, even the escorts. 

I even gave one of my commercial troop transports over a dozen CIWS. .  XD

 Most of my ships' offensive capabilties currently revolve around gauss cannons as well, although I plan on implimenting a strong boarding party strategy.   


Once I find some enemies, I'll let you guys know how everything fares.   SPACE VIKINGS, HO!

I'm doing exactly this in my current game, it's great. =D