C# Ground Combat

[Garfunkel]

Yeah, as much as I love BattleTech, the setting breaks down the moment you try to put a hard sci-fi spin on any battle/campaign in it.

just wanted to mention that irl cruise missiles fly low to the ground because the curvature of the earth blocks them from being seen, giving them less time to be reacted to compared to the faster high altitude missiles that can be detected from far away.  I have no idea if this is relevant to c# ground combat, but it might be worth noting so i'm mentioning it.

There is currently no territory in C# combat and neither does the game calculate LOS between space and planets, since each planet/moon/asteroid is just a dot. So there's no hiding behind a moon nor are the planetary surface-to-space weapons ever incapable of firing at space ships, or anything like that.

[Hazard]

To be fair, for beam weapons body occlusion would be relevant, but for self propelled projectiles?

Even low tech missiles tend to move fast enough to reach halfway to Luna even from the wrong side of the planet, and as missiles go faster that only gets worse.

[Garfunkel]

Well, it was more an answer to professorpicke who mentioned sea-skimmers and surface-hugging cruise missiles that avoid counter-measures by hiding behind the curvature of the Earth. That could, in certain circumstances, be relevant to space and ground-to-space combat. However in Aurora, as things currently are, it isn't because it's 2D and planets are just points in space, not actual "bodies".

[Hazard]

Once you get to a certain level of technological TN technological sophistication those certain circumstances in planet-to-orbit or orbit-to-orbit combat don't really occur and would be eclipsed by the much greater utility of a Line of Sight Anti Ship Missile not unlike the LOSAT concept. And that level is basically 'you have TN engines.'

Sea skimmers and surface hugging cruise missiles work because the sensor systems cannot penetrate large masses or distinguish easily between small masses and large masses that are close to each other at range. This is not true of TN sensors, which are not obscured at all by the masses of planets, stars and black holes, nor find it difficult to distinguish between a mass of a million tons and a mass of only a couple of hundred right next to it as long as they're both in range of the sensor. Indeed, a sufficiently low resolution sensor might fail entirely to pick up the smaller craft but it will perfectly identify the larger entity, without conflating its companion's signature with its own from any range.

It can work in certain ground combat circumstances, but that would be abstracted by the way ground combat works. It's a perfectly valid interpretation of how your Heavy Bombardment equipped units work after all, firing their missiles from hundreds of kilometers behind the lines and sending them off on NOE courses to attack.

[Shuul]

Was playing tabletop WH40k recently and thought about infantry transports. Maybe you can add a new module for vehicles, something like "infantry compartment" that will give small defense bonus for infantry in the same formation) to show the benefits of mechanized support?

[mtm84]

In my mock formations I’ve been using light vehicles with CAP as transports in my infantry formations. Infantry will also have armor levels that could be abstracted as armored transport protection.

[QuakeIV]

Seems like it would get closer to what is hoped for there, by having to fabricate actual infantry transport vehicles (instead of just armored infantry).

[mtm84]

I’m not against more granularity in ground force units, just pointing out that you could role play it as is.  I would wonder how this could be implemented though.  A component that houses x amount of tonnage of infantry?  Could be getting into some large vehicles in that case.  Or maybe actual x amount of inf units regardless of size?

[Garfunkel]

You can already do that. Because hits are distributed against all equipment in a unit, put light armoured vehicles in the same formation as infantry and you have achieved APC/IFV capability. Because of how ground combat currently works, anything else would be superfluous. The infantry still fights outside their transport and since each combat round is 8 hours, the difference between being inside a vehicle and outside is a moot one. The vehicles will soak some hits, thus reducing infantry casualties.

[Tactical_Torpedo]

I was just wondering (and couldn't see any concrete info in the thread) what kind of control will we have over the ground combat itself?

Mainly I'm curious as I'm planning a campaign in C# that could involve Special Forces on hostile planets, and with how it seems that the Ground Forces automatically engage & attack without orders I'd have to do some funky stuff to not get the small team (which is meant to be Stealthy, undetected etc) Stomped by an entire planets garrison.

As such, will there be any option to force-disable a unit from participating in combat or anything of the like?

[Hazard]

Control is limited to stationing troops on planet and putting them in 1 of 4 different positions which have different engagement rules. Trying to shove a special operations unit on planet will just get them obliterated as a result as all enemy troops target them.

[Garfunkel]

You're better off as just RPing the SF team. If it's a scouting mission, just write it up the way you want and then use SM mode to "peek" on the planet to get the information that the team would get. If it's a search-and-destroy mission, then use SM mode to delete/wreck/abandon the installations you want. There is currently no way to run a small and stealthy SF team on a planet strictly through game mechanics.

[Joe94]

Is there gonna be a difference between normal infantry or more specialized soldiers? Like, more hit points or hit possibilities? I mean do we get to train like special forces or something like that?
Keep on the good work!

[Garfunkel]

Currently by the rules posted by Steve:

* Light AA will only fire if it is directly attacked, in other words is part of the formation attacked by enemy fighters.
* Medium AA will only fire if a sub-ordinate formation, in a direct line, is attacked by enemy fighters or in above situation.
* Heavy AA will fire in both above situations, but also will take potshots freely at any enemy fighters (ground support, bombardment, CAP).

This means that creating special AA-only formations only works with Heavy AA. If we want to shield our ground units from enemy fighters, Light AA needs to be in each formation and Medium AA will need to be directly attached to a superior formation.

So, creating an AA battalion for a division is counter-productive if it consists of Light or Medium AA. Instead, players should create AA units out of Heavy AA, put Medium AA together with division/battalion HQs (or whatever equivalent they are using) and put Light AA into front line units where it can both improve ground combat as well as help bleed out enemy fighters.

[Bremen]

Currently by the rules posted by Steve:

* Light AA will only fire if it is directly attacked, in other words is part of the formation attacked by enemy fighters.
* Medium AA will only fire if a sub-ordinate formation, in a direct line, is attacked by enemy fighters or in above situation.
* Heavy AA will fire in both above situations, but also will take potshots freely at any enemy fighters (ground support, bombardment, CAP).

This means that creating special AA-only formations only works with Heavy AA. If we want to shield our ground units from enemy fighters, Light AA needs to be in each formation and Medium AA will need to be directly attached to a superior formation.

So, creating an AA battalion for a division is counter-productive if it consists of Light or Medium AA. Instead, players should create AA units out of Heavy AA, put Medium AA together with division/battalion HQs (or whatever equivalent they are using) and put Light AA into front line units where it can both improve ground combat as well as help bleed out enemy fighters.

Alternately put heavy AA in frontline units so they pull double duty, since the heavy AA will fire at fighters from wherever but only AA in front line units will contribute to ground combat, medium AA in command units, and light AA in units you feel are particularly vulnerable to air attack (such as supporting artillery or possibly fragile STO weapon batteries).