Parasite Warfare: Strategies from the Star Swarm

[GhostOfGod (OP)]

My last game was my first experience with combat . . .  and it went way better than I had been planning on.  Using fairly standard missile and ship designs NPRs and Precursors died with relative ease and few casualties.  Then I ran into the Star Swarm.  They fell to my missiles as well but it gave me a different idea for play.  Barring atmospheric combat, where beams are disappointingly useless, I'm planning an entirely parasite and entirely entirely beam-armed fleet.  This means:

1) No armed ships will exceed 1000 tons
1a) The only exception to this will be Gauss turrets for missile defense on Motherships

2) Missiles will be limited to planetary defense and bombardment -only-.  No ships will carry AMMs.

I'll be posting designs as I finish them and combat reports as they come.  Right now I'm still exploring my new 'verse for a Precursor, but I may just make an empire nearby to fight with.  Comments, ideas, suggestions welcome.

[metalax]

Remember that mesons are unaffected by atmosphere so you will want to include them in your fleet if you are going to be attacking planetary targets.

Nebulas may prove a problem for you if you are limiting your ships to 1000 tons, as it may be difficult to get sufficient armour while maintaining a sufficient weapons loadout. On the other hand you will have no trouble with the lack of missiles.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

mind that the swarm strategy is two pronged...

firstly the swarm facs are fast enough to close with anything (only 800t) and have enough firepower to kill anything (mesons), but rely on sheer numbers to push through missile fire.  so be prepared to take similarly massive casualties.  The other prong is the incredible shielding and protection of the swarm queens, which enables them to soak ludicrous amounts of firepower and provides an alternative defence against missile fleets or specialized FAC-kllers. If you plan to field huge Swarm-style motherships, you will likely need to SM up a shipyard to finish it in any reasonable time ^^

The problem and annoyance you will face is that the NPRs will go into range, launch all their missiles, and run away.  Hopefully they wont mount anti-FAC equipment, but if they do you might suffer horrendous casualties before ever getting into range, just like the swarm does.  And if the enemmy is very much higher tech than you it might be impossible to get into range. 1000 ton FACs arnt actually that fast if you're doing ion engines vs fusion, for example.   Additionally, FACs can only effectively mount a handful of beam weapon types, especially if you are looking for any kind of anti-missile defence.  The heaviest plausible armament is 6-7 HS, like a pair of 10cm railguns.  If you want to keep your FACs stripped down for speed and quantity you cant even mount that much.

[sloanjh]

Would this thread be better off in Spoilers?  Specific Star Swarm tactics are one of the things we try to keep in a place where people won't stumble over them, for those who want to preserve fog of war....

John

[xeryon]

I think it could be done successfully if you take some race creation liberties.  Logically, a race that might field this OOB could be a hive-mind race that is exceedingly populous.  Being the methodology is to overwhelm your opponents with numbers instead of tech the racial profile would be that individual losses are inconsequential.  So your initial race might have billions of inhabitants, but an undersized CF and Mining loadout and small shipyards.  This would give you a proportionally higher starting RP and fit the under-industrialized concept of a hive and allow you to "legally" lopside your initial tech to suit this format.

I like the possibilities.

[GhostOfGod (OP)]

Would this thread be better off in Spoilers?  Specific Star Swarm tactics are one of the things we try to keep in a place where people won't stumble over them, for those who want to preserve fog of war. . . .

John

Whoops, yeah probably I didn't think of that.  I'm trying to post only the ideas I come up with and not actual tactics, but this may warrant a move.  Sorry for any spoilers. 

I think it could be done successfully if you take some race creation liberties.   Logically, a race that might field this OOB could be a hive-mind race that is exceedingly populous.   Being the methodology is to overwhelm your opponents with numbers instead of tech the racial profile would be that individual losses are inconsequential.   So your initial race might have billions of inhabitants, but an undersized CF and Mining loadout and small shipyards.   This would give you a proportionally higher starting RP and fit the under-industrialized concept of a hive and allow you to "legally" lopside your initial tech to suit this format.

I like the possibilities.

And that's a good idea. . . I may remake this game to do just that.  I'd started with a lot to tech into the engines and shields and only 1bil pop, with all the necessary small/tiny. . . but I like your idea better. 

[sloanjh]

Whoops, yeah probably I didn't think of that.  I'm trying to post only the ideas I come up with and not actual tactics, but this may warrant a move.  Sorry for any spoilers. 

OK - I went ahead and moved it for you.  I left a trail of bread crumbs, though, so people looking in the old place can still find it

John

[GhostOfGod (OP)]

Awesome, I'll keep this thread for the strategies and combat reports, etc.

[GhostOfGod (OP)]

Alright after some work I've fleshed out my empire's design doctrine and initial ship designs.

Doctrine:
Before I get into any actual design I want to describe the doctrine that I am adhering to for this game. I've decided to start by abandoning the common military strategies I've found on the forums. Actually forbidding them is more like it. The following rules form the foundation of my military doctrine:

1) Only transport-type vessels may exceed 1000 tons. I.E. Carriers, Freighters, Tankers, Colony ships.
2) Only Carrier class vessels will be allowed armour or shielding of any kind
3) Missiles are entirely forbidden. Drones and buoys may be developed for remote sensor placement.
4) If/When a Carrier comes under attack all Parasites assigned to that Carrier will respond with 1 of 2 actions;
     4a) If the Parasites are of adequate speed to intercept the attack, they will do so.
     5b) If the Parasites are unable to intercept the attack for any reason they will either attempt to destroy the attacking ship (such as in the case of a missile salvo), or simply continue with orders.
5) In the event of a Carrier being destroyed, all Parasites assigned to that Carrier will become 'berserk' and fight either until their death or the enemy is destroyed. In the latter case Parasites will then self-destruct.

The above doctrine will grow as combat situations arise that require it to be modified. Now for the fun part, ship designs!

Design:
First up is the main carrier of my current fleet.

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Talona class Strike Carrier    16,000 tons     823 Crew     2118.8 BP      TCS 320  TH 600  EM 0
1875 km/s     Armour 9-56     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 25     PPV 0
Maint Life 12.83 Years     MSP 2069    AFR 81%    IFR 1.1%    1YR 23    5YR 350    Max Repair 128 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 6500 tons     

"Orion" Class Ion Engine (10)    Power 60    Fuel Use 80%    Signature 60    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 700,000 Litres    Range 98.4 billion km   (607 days at full power)

"Twin-Fang" Class Carrier CIWS (2x4)    Range 1000 km     TS: 16000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
"Hawkeye" Class Missile Defense Sensor (1)     GPS 128     Range 10.2m km    Resolution 1

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
Kinda proud of this thing for a first generation ship. Armoured, can carry various configurations of 20+ fighters, it can even reasonably defend itself from missile strikes.

Next, my Strikefighter twins: Baphomet and Balor.

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Baphomet class Strikefighter    300 tons     12 Crew     42.5 BP      TCS 6  TH 48  EM 0
8000 km/s     Armour 1-3     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 3
Maint Life 0 Years     MSP 0    AFR 60%    IFR 0.8%    1YR 2    5YR 36    Max Repair 14 MSP

"Venor" Class MP Fighter Drive (1)    Power 48    Fuel Use 8000%    Signature 48    Armour 0    Exp 25%
Fuel Capacity 5,000 Litres    Range 0.4 billion km   (13 hours at full power)

Strikefighter Meson Cannon (1)    Range 30,000km     TS: 8000 km/s     Power 3-2     RM 3    ROF 10        1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Strikefighter Beam Fire Control (1)    Max Range: 48,000 km   TS: 16000 km/s     79 58 38 17 0 0 0 0 0 0
Strikefighter Micro-Fusion Reactor (4)     Total Power Output 2.4    Armour 0    Exp 5%

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes


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Balor class Strikefighter    260 tons     7 Crew     40.7 BP      TCS 5.2  TH 48  EM 0
9230 km/s     Armour 2-3     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 2
Maint Life 0 Years     MSP 0    AFR 52%    IFR 0.7%    1YR 3    5YR 38    Max Repair 14 MSP

"Venor" Class MP Fighter Drive (1)    Power 48    Fuel Use 8000%    Signature 48    Armour 0    Exp 25%
Fuel Capacity 5,000 Litres    Range 0.4 billion km   (13 hours at full power)

"Aura" Class Strikefighter Laser  (1)    Range 48,000km     TS: 9230 km/s     Power 3-0.5     RM 2    ROF 30        3 3 2 1 0 0 0 0 0 0
Strikefighter Beam Fire Control (1)    Max Range: 48,000 km   TS: 16000 km/s     79 58 38 17 0 0 0 0 0 0
Strikefighter Micro-Fusion Reactor (1)     Total Power Output 0.6    Armour 0    Exp 5%

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes


With 1 Talona Strike Carrier, I can get 25 Balors in the air for a total of 75 dmg every 30 seconds in a perfect scenario. Or 20 of either Strikefighter and 1 of my scouts which can be seen below.

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Loki class Scout    500 tons     42 Crew     97.6 BP      TCS 10  TH 160  EM 0
16000 km/s     Armour 1-5     Shields 0-0     Sensors 8/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 0
Maint Life 0 Years     MSP 0    AFR 100%    IFR 1.4%    1YR 25    5YR 371    Max Repair 40 MSP

"Apollo" Class Fast Attack Drive (1)    Power 160    Fuel Use 800%    Signature 160    Armour 0    Exp 15%
Fuel Capacity 5,000 Litres    Range 2.3 billion km   (39 hours at full power)

FAC Active Search Sensor (1)     GPS 3200     Range 25.6m km    Resolution 100
FAC Thermal Sensor (1)     Sensitivity 8     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  8m km

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes


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Kali class Scout    500 tons     42 Crew     97.6 BP      TCS 10  TH 160  EM 0
16000 km/s     Armour 1-5     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/8/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 0
Maint Life 0 Years     MSP 0    AFR 100%    IFR 1.4%    1YR 25    5YR 371    Max Repair 40 MSP

"Apollo" Class Fast Attack Drive (1)    Power 160    Fuel Use 800%    Signature 160    Armour 0    Exp 15%
Fuel Capacity 5,000 Litres    Range 2.3 billion km   (39 hours at full power)

FAC Active Search Sensor (1)     GPS 3200     Range 25.6m km    Resolution 100
FAC EM Detection Sensor (1)     Sensitivity 8     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  8m km

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes



I'm really counting on my ship's speed to keep a decent percentage of them alive. Of course I'll hopefully have numbers on my side too. A Battle Group of 5 Talonas can pump out over 100 fighters and remain 200 million km back if need be.

[xeryon]

You might have a range of 200m but your maximum active range is only 25m.  You are going to have to be pretty close to find anything.  Close enough that your carriers are going to draw a lot of fire.

[Brian Neumann]

You are really going to need a longer range sensor to detect ships before they open fire on your carrier.

2 points on the carrier.  The first is that it is just to slow to survive much in combat.  Unless you have some other ship that has a long range sensor (over 120m km on resolution 16 or smaller targets) then you are likely to be destroyed before you even no that there is a threat. 

Second point is the active sensor you do mount on the carrier is somewhat redundant.  You have no way to fire at anything beyond beam range so while the tracking time will help a bit, it is not great.  The ciws system has a short range active sensor to detect the missiles built in already.  Personally I would keep it so your fighters have some way of shooting at incomming missiles.  Have about half of your carriers keep that sensor, and the other half have a larger resolution sensor to see enemy ships at range.  You are going to want to have either a small active sensor on all of your fighters, or some sort of scout that can hang well back out of missile range to illuminate the fighters targets.  If the enemy is not in active sensor range then your fighters can not shoot at it no matter how close they are.  Fire control requires some source of active sensors detecting the target before you can lock onto the target.

Brian

[TheDeadlyShoe]

Scratch the loki; the dinky thermal sensor won't do any good. At least the dinky EM sensor offers some hope of detecting active sensors.

You'll probably want a long range sensor ship, or a long range sensor built on to your carrier; it's essential to carrier ops, especially on a mothership that slow. On that note, you could probably also use putting a 0.1 size active sensor on some model of your fighters.  Since they're beam platforms, that's all they need, and it eliminates the need for a specialized sensor fighter or scout.  Trying to use the 500 ton scouts for this role has difficulties, since theyre much larger with relatively huge signatures.   They're obvious targets.  You could also res-1 this sensor.

The most obvious problem you will face is torrents of AMM fire.  You will likely want to develop doctrine and ships designed to counter this.  Unfortunately, the only answer that comes to mind within your chosen limitations is through sheer mass and armor protection.

The other problem will be ships that are just too advanced technologically to engage. The most obvious problem is sheer speed. Advanced designs could rack up speeds as fast or faster than your fighters and will be impossible to engage. The Swarm's FACs themselves come to mind. The other problem is ECM.  Advanced versions (like ECM-5) will make accuracy beyond point blank extremely low.  And you may only be able to stay point blank if you game initiative, which may not always be possible depending on skill.

You may also wish to investigate cloaking technology for several purposes, it could render you less vulnerable to engagement by missile ships.

Other things to think about - if you're closing light craft to point blank anyway, you could consider boarding tactics with marine companies - particularly if paired with meson armed ships to cripple engines.  It might also be worth exprimenting with microwave weapons, to ensure minatureized lasers dont suffer too heavily from their long recharge.

Gauss cannon might also be worth investigating.  Their ability to be stripped down to any size has serious potential for a beam fighter, even if the accuracy cost is high.  10cm railguns offer similar potential on a FAC; with high tracking speeds from the ship they actually offer extremely good performance at missile defence.

/muses.... wild weasel fac armed with microwave guns and advanced ECM for use against beam bases..? there's some potential there.

[GhostOfGod (OP)]

Excellent input, thank you guys. I had been worrying about how I was going to do my sensors for a while and you have offered some great advice. A lot of the problems with my sensors is that they're pretty low tech. Actually I intentionally gimped several tech trees that wouldn't have been needed by a hive-mind race on a single planet.

Everything that I've designed thus far is for my home system defense, since I spawned my Empire in a massive trinary star-system with LPs already surrounding my homeworld. Should be interesting to say the least. But I digress, back to addressing points.

Cloaking:
Yes, yes, and more yes. Cloaking technology is going to be massively key in future battle scenarios. I really don't know what else to say.

Sensors:
First, range isn't even a question. Mine is terrible and I'm working on improving it, techwise and through ship redesign. Speaking of re-design, good to know the thermal sensor won't do any good and the Loki is now obsolete.

Now addressing the point of the active sensor mounted on my carrier. My thinking behind all of my sensor designs thus far has been the sharing of sensor data amongst a task force. That, and the Max Tracking Time Bonus vs Missiles tech-tree. If I'm able to track carrier-bound missiles from millions of km out for minutes at a time that should allow any Meson/Gauss/Railgun armed PDF fighters/FACs extremely good accuracy. Not to mention the CIWS on the carriers. Seems like that also makes a strong argument for 0.1 sized sensors on all fighter models.

Boarding:
This is one of the first games where I may pursue boarding actions as an actual offensive tactic rather than just a way to capture prizes. I'm going to have to give this a good deal further thought, but what comes to mind would be a scenario like this:

Main fighter swarm is launched, enemy ship is selected for boarding actions. Dropship swarm is launched after fighters engage target ship. Dropships begin to move to flank target ship, fighters continue to engage target to limit speed but not cripple it entirely. Dropships move in for boarding action once speed is low enough for acceptable losses. Marines board, capture ship, and direct it to ram into closest high value target there is. Remaining dropships return to their carriers.

Think of the morale loss of seeing a friendly ship suddenly start smashing all the missile ships to bits, or ram into the command ship. Or even better, somehow managing to capture a flagship and ramming it through a PDC. 

[Andrew]

Player races cannot ram, even with captured ships

[GhostOfGod (OP)]

Player races cannot ram, even with captured ships

Damn, I didn't know that. Ah well, I still want to try and capture ships during battle despite the likelihood of high casualties.