Aurora 4x
VB6 Aurora => Advanced Tactical Command Academy => Topic started by: Whitecold on August 02, 2014, 02:08:51 PM
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There are lots of example ship designs floating around, but very few PDC designs. What are your design philosophies on PDCs? Distributed small units or giant installations? Do you use them at all? How much do you invest in PDC compared to mobile units? Do you use them unsupported or with fleet/orbital platforms?
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The only PDC's I ever build are non-functional ones just to get my PPV where the population wants it. Usually just a bunch of ICBM launchers and nothing else.
I suspect if you're building PDC's that are actually supposed to work, you want one gigantic one, as opposed to a bunch of small ones. This will make shield generators more effective. Shields are definitely worth it, as PDC's tend to be so large that they'll survive long enough for the shields recharge to come into play. I recommend designing purpose-built launchers and ASM's for PDC's. They can afford to be significantly larger, since the PDC isn't going anywhere. Same with magazines. You definitely want the magazines very well armored. It'd suck to lose a PDC to a couple lucky hits. Your AMM's can be your standard AMM's, as there's not much to gain from making big AMM's. Nothing needs any electronic hardening since beam weapons, including microwaves, dont penetrate atmospheres well. Last, you also want a big compliment of ground troops, since the only real way they'll ever take something this big is with a landing.
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The only PDC's I ever build are non-functional ones just to get my PPV where the population wants it. Usually just a bunch of ICBM launchers and nothing else.
I suspect if you're building PDC's that are actually supposed to work, you want one gigantic one, as opposed to a bunch of small ones. This will make shield generators more effective. Shields are definitely worth it, as PDC's tend to be so large that they'll survive long enough for the shields recharge to come into play. I recommend designing purpose-built launchers and ASM's for PDC's. They can afford to be significantly larger, since the PDC isn't going anywhere. Same with magazines. You definitely want the magazines very well armored. It'd suck to lose a PDC to a couple lucky hits. Your AMM's can be your standard AMM's, as there's not much to gain from making big AMM's. Nothing needs any electronic hardening since beam weapons, including microwaves, dont penetrate atmospheres well. Last, you also want a big compliment of ground troops, since the only real way they'll ever take something this big is with a landing.
Good Ideas, just 1 problem. No Shields. Pdc's can not have any shields. In general I agree with you comments when defending major planets. When you need to defend a system with very limited or no populations then having a lot of small pdc's that can be prefabed and assembled in system actually does work. Have each pdc be specialized and only have 1 turret, or 5 missile launchers, or 10 amm, or 1 medium sized active sensor. Once you have 1 of each in place you can start adding the type you need the most for defending the system.
Brian
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I tend to have two types of PDC the one that simply serves to control PPV and morale, and the one that is practical in use. For ones that actually get used I tend to RP that they are a representation of a planetary defence system rather than a single ion canon type. As such I build em huge and fill up with lots of different systems, this have the benefit of less micromanagment and allows me to take advantage of larger shields and launchers etc.
Later into the game I will create very small PDC types that are there to just allow my low ranking officers to have a task to do.
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I also had fake PDC in my current game, but normally I try to have one or two standardized useful models on every colony (usually 100k in size each). I like to separate into a AMM/close combat design, and long range torpedo bases for stretched out system control - the later being built as second priority. To that I add a planetary fortress PDC of some sort (just barracks+massive armor ~ideally 100), because it just multiplies ground defense capacity so that one division could easily fend of 10 or many more. (formula was [baseStrength]*armor/5 or/4 I believe)
On my homeworld, or eventually on other shipyard world I also use huge planetary hangar designs to land my military when it is not used. In comparison to carriers, planetary hangars require no maintenance at all - just as the ships placed in them, so this way you can prevent maintenance payment completely. (..which is quite the major factor in game; on top of that they get repaired, refueled and ammunition supplied with just a single command and again without cost - except MSP)
If you have all your military in planetary hangars, you don't even need maintenance facilities anymore, so I usually build a lot of space into them - 100k hangar space maybe at start, and later even 1-2mt storage place.
A fun design of the past was a "drone hangar", basically a smaller hangar for several 1kt, no engine, beam attacking drop drones that could be released into orbit to form point defense and close combat firing power. Normally space stations aren't worth it because of the eternal problem with the huge maintenance cost, but if you store your beam defenders in hangars, a planet can have beam fire power and PD too. :)
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Its very rare my PDC's ever get used in battle, but I try to make them like they should be useful.
I have a few types. They all can hold one battalion.
1) Long range active sensor PDC, no weapons, lots of armor
2) Missile PDC, mix of ASM and AMM
3) Meson PDC if I am using Meson tech for missile def
4) Fighter storage PDC, no armor or weapons, just hangars
I like PDC's to provide system protection without requiring ships that burn resources just sitting around, so I use them quite often.
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A quick question on the spacedock type PDC design, whena ship is docked I understand how it becomes in effect free to upkeep. But they still use MSP for things the ship needs in dock? Does this mean you need to have maintenance supplies for them at the colony?
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Hi,
I mainly use PDC for FAC or fighters storage.
This way they have no maintenance cost.
My favorite, one PDC with 12.000 capacity, as my standard FAC squadron is 10x1000t FAC with fire control and 10 box laucher size 5 and 2xFAC with active sensor.
Why two FAC with active sensor? Because once they become active they are easy to spot and attack, and I'm a firm believer in redundancy.
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My most common PDC design is a bunch of high tracking speed quad meson turrets. Basically I assume if the PDCs are getting any use, the planet is being bombarded, and the most important job for the PDC is to try to help the planet survive the bombardment. And if any ships actually enter the orbit of the planet they can tear them apart.
AMM PDCs would work equally well, but would require keeping a very large stockpile of AMMs around to be useful. Generally I'm always running short on missile stockpiles, and it means moving missiles around to colonies without ordinance factories, so I prefer mesons.
If I'm going heavy on planetary defense, I usually also have some anti ship missile bases on the planet, but those are secondary to the meson bases. Fighter hangars are also really practical for defense (and a good place to store your obsolete fighters) but it's been awhile since I did a fighter based game.
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1) Long range active sensor PDC, no weapons, lots of armor
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I like the idea of having the sensors separated in massive armor. It's kinda like a decoy so the main PDCs don't get attacked for long, and also the magazines are save from lucky hits, hmm...
Deja-Vu right now. I think I have seen and recognized such an idea before.
A quick question on the spacedock type PDC design, whena ship is docked I understand how it becomes in effect free to upkeep. But they still use MSP for things the ship needs in dock? Does this mean you need to have maintenance supplies for them at the colony?
They would only use MSP for actual repairs, but the rewind of the clock is free, and there is no need arising as long as the ships are stored. It will never cost you a dime for anything if you only fly in healthy ships. :)
Otherwise, normally you do your in hangar repairs from the ships reserves. It will certainly help to have a deposit on the body so that your ship can refill on MSP (eventually even in between repairs if the damage suffered was heavy). You can do the refill manually in the ship window, or just order resupply upon leaving the planet.
It is actually perfect to have such PDC as distant, silent, self sufficient outpost. For example you could move some prefabricated PDC to some asteroid or whatever, and then have either habitat or underground infrastructure+population run some factories to piece them together.(will also cost some minerals) Then you just leave with your team, so only the base stays. Ships can easily be flown in as guards for the sector, or just use it as a repair base rallying point, which can be invaluable for those who have left the capital far behind them.
The main problem you normally have with traditional colony bases that would do the same, is supplying just the right amount of resources. It is amazingly problematic - a logistic nightmare, which is why I stay away from it. With such a base however, you basically only ever need fuel supply, for which you can make automated or repeated orders. Keeping watch over eventual MSP consumption is easy to do, but the best is that as long as you don't use the station, or ships are just in there on watch -> it will not require any upkeep or management. Just be there. A nice reservoir and haven, built in ancient times. Still functioning.
I love the things practical as this. Probably my german side.^^
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My PDCs are simply redesigned crusiers, one is anti-missile, the other is anti-ship. I'm currently on total war with an 1000% NPR, they have invaded sol so I need many PDCs to protect earth.
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When building PDCs I usually follow the same designs every game.
1. Cheap meson turrets. Just a single 4x meson turret and what is needed to operate it, some quarters for a battalion of infantry enough armor to turn it into a 2 piece assembly.
I make a design for them as soon as I begin a TN-start (or as soon as I can spare a little research during a conventional start) and after 20 or so years I upgrade them with new tech.
Usually I have a dozen of them on every habitable world, as a last line of defense to deal with single or pairs of missiles that somehow get past my normal defenses and they are usually among the first things I drop down when I found a new colony.
2. Cheap laser turrets. Same as the meson ones, just for ressource bases or military outposts I build on asteroids.
3. Cheap sensor turrets. Some ship and missile sensors, a battalion of ground troops and enough armor to get to 2 pieces. They are basically everywhere I go, usually in pairs for redundancy.
4. Satellite bases. 3k to 4k ton hangars, lots of armor, resolution 1 sensors and space for 5 battalions of ground units. They are filled with PD satellites, basically just minimized gauss turrets with a fire control.
Deploy them in case of threat, keep them inside when everything is clear.
Usually important capital planets have one of them. The satellites are also loaded into slow rear-line military ships, such as ammo colliers or armed fuel transports.
5. Missile launchers. Small, easily transportable bases with 5 or 6 slow reloading anti-ship launchers, some armor, no ground units and relatively large magazines. I dump a dozen or so on asteroids that happen to be close enough to hostile jump points for medium range missile strikes against intruders. Usually paired with a few of the laser turrets above for defense. They just serve to deter scout ships or deploy some extra missiles against intruders already engaged with my ships on guard.
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I usually build mine as planetary fortresses (for the ones on colonies) for PR and practical reasons. Usually they are equipped with capital ship sized sensors, particle beams/missiles (depending on the type, sometimes both), with a CIWS or two, a small gauss cannon turret (quad of the smallest size), armored up the wazoo, and with a hangar or two (I'll have a dedicated hangar pdc on my larger colonies that can house a battleship each). If I have a base/area that I want to protect with pdc (on moon around a gas giant/asteroid in a system with no colonization planets) I'll have it slightly armored with one particle beam, one large missile launcher (size 10+), frigate/destroyer size sensors, and a CIWS.
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Mine vary.
I have small PDC's I build for modular distribution to colonies at risk. They tend to be small, a few launchers, medium sensors, a moderate magazine and decent armor.
Big worlds get big PDC's. I tend to specialize, AAM installations, ASM installations, and beam (meson).
One PDC type that I have experimented with, and had some luck with are cruise mine launchers. These are moderate sized, with size 18 or 34 reduced size launchers designed to lob really big, long rang, SLOW missiles that drop a mine at the way point target location. I have had some really amusing luck dropping these on warp points and leaving a surprise to some annoying NPR's that I couldn't catch. Thermal sensor mines are great, they achieve surprise almost everytime and get hits in before the bad guys turn on sensors or shields. :D
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It is actually perfect to have such PDC as distant, silent, self sufficient outpost. For example you could move some prefabricated PDC to some asteroid or whatever, and then have either habitat or underground infrastructure+population run some factories to piece them together.(will also cost some minerals) Then you just leave with your team, so only the base stays. Ships can easily be flown in as guards for the sector, or just use it as a repair base rallying point, which can be invaluable for those who have left the capital far behind them.
The main problem you normally have with traditional colony bases that would do the same, is supplying just the right amount of resources. It is amazingly problematic - a logistic nightmare, which is why I stay away from it. With such a base however, you basically only ever need fuel supply, for which you can make automated or repeated orders. Keeping watch over eventual MSP consumption is easy to do, but the best is that as long as you don't use the station, or ships are just in there on watch -> it will not require any upkeep or management. Just be there. A nice reservoir and haven, built in ancient times. Still functioning.
I love the things practical as this. Probably my german side.^^
This is a nice idea, I am wondering how visible is such a base to other ships? If it was a hanger PDC with nothing but huge hangers, lots of armour, and space for supplies. If the ships were all docked would it make this PDC & the associated colony (containing nothing but fuel and maintenance supplies) almost invisible until you were on top of it?
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I usually go with huge, 30+ kton PDCs with a fleet scanning suite (ship, FAC and missile sensors) ~20 AMM launchers, frakkdeep magazines and around 100 ASM box launcher. Also, very thick armor and barracks.
Something like this, from my current game:
Argonev class Missile Defence Base 35,000 tons 335 Crew 4786 BP TCS 700 TH 0 EM 0
Armour 18-95 Sensors 1/630 Damage Control Rating 10 PPV 95
Intended Deployment Time: 36 months Spare Berths 1
Troop Capacity: 5 Battalions Magazine 1970
Benson-Gough Aerospace S-5 Box Launcher (100) Missile Size 5 Hangar Reload 37.5 minutes MF Reload 6.2 hours
Newman & Robertson Armaments Company S-1 AMM Launcher (20) Missile Size 1 Rate of Fire 10
Atkins Heavy Industries Missile Fire Control FC67-R1 (1) Range 67.2m km Resolution 1
Sanders Electronics Missile Fire Control FC189-R100 (4) Range 189.0m km Resolution 100
S-5 Sapphire ASM (100) Speed: 28,800 km/s End: 38.1m Range: 65.9m km WH: 4 Size: 5 TH: 115/69/34
S-1 Sentinel AMM (1470) Speed: 28,800 km/s End: 3.6m Range: 6.2m km WH: 1 Size: 1 TH: 172/103/51
Fletcher Aerospace Strikecraft-Band ASS MR112-R20 (1) GPS 6300 Range 112.7m km Resolution 20
Fletcher Aerospace Ship Band ASS MR504-R100 (1) GPS 63000 Range 504.0m km Resolution 100
Fletcher Aerospace Missile-Band ASS MR33-R1 (1) GPS 420 Range 33.6m km MCR 3.7m km Resolution 1
Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s
This design is classed as a Planetary Defence Centre and can be pre-fabricated in 14 section
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Because in the (very) early days of Aurora the only way to train (experience-wise, not create) ground troops was in a PDC with an HQ unit, I still tend to build four or five battalion capacity troop-holder PDCs. In fact, I think I can produce my standard 'Stone Mountain' class design in my sleep by now.
Otherwise, I just use the starting ICBM bases and design giant, long-range mine-laying missiles for them so I can mine JPs from my homeworld. Even if I'm not doing a pre-TN start, I end up building ICBM bases for the PPV boost.
In games where I'm heavily invested in fighters or FACs, I'll also build hangar bases; and if I'm doing a multiple-powers-on-the-same-planet start, I always build several small fast-firing Meson bases for the inevitable World War. I also inevitably call them the 'Scorpion' class, as "it's my nature."
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I always build several small fast-firing Meson bases for the inevitable World War. I also inevitably call them the 'Scorpion' class, as "it's my nature."
LOL