Author Topic: Creating a Believable Naval Organization  (Read 7527 times)

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Offline Marski (OP)

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Creating a Believable Naval Organization
« on: September 14, 2012, 11:29:48 AM »
I am trying to create a Naval Organization structure, but I need help as I have no idea what it should look like. A game I am running right now is a continuation of a Hearts of Iron III - For the Motherland campaign, where I achieved a world domination as Soviet Russia. I searched a bit but I couldn't find examples to base my organization upon. And I want to finally get a gist of how this is done so I can sleep again without this bloody button haunting my dreams.



The current ships in service are:
  • 7 Cargo ships
  • 3 Colony ships
  • 4 Geosurvey ships
  • 3 Troop Transports
« Last Edit: September 14, 2012, 11:31:41 AM by Marski »
 

Offline Beersatron

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Re: Creating a Believable Naval Organization
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2012, 11:43:47 AM »
I normally go with:

- Naval HQ (Combat)
-- First Fleet
--- BB Big Guns
--- BC Swift
--- BC Lean
--- DDE Meat Shield
--- DDE Phalanx
-- Second Fleet
--- BB ...
--- BC ...
........

- Survey HQ
-- Survey Flotilla Alpha
--- GE/GV ...
--- GE/GV ...
....

- Logistics HQ
-- Fuel Harvestors
--- FH ...
--- FH...
-- Cargo ...
.....
-- Colony ...
.....
 

Offline Marski (OP)

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Re: Creating a Believable Naval Organization
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2012, 12:07:09 PM »
Is there no superior command to the Task Forces? I feel odd naming a mere Task Group "Fleet Command"
 

Offline Bgreman

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Re: Creating a Believable Naval Organization
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2012, 12:41:03 PM »
Pretend "Task Forces" are "Fleets" and "Task Groups" are "Task Forces".  That's what I do.
 

Offline TheDeadlyShoe

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Re: Creating a Believable Naval Organization
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2012, 01:21:45 PM »
My interpretation of your post is that you're both unfamiliar with the Naval Org tab and you want to create something believably Soviet to reflect the continuation of your game.

The ideal naval org tab is something useful for deployment visualization and reorganization.  While retaining and reflecting the flavor you want to give your navy is important too, keeping your mind's eye on the first will save you many headaches. :)

I have found that there are essentially four activities for ships.

*Deployment - Squadrons actively deployed away from home. Typically includes pickets and ships permanently assigned to secondary bases.
*Reserves -  All ships at home base.  Although this can be further divided into the ready reserve and ships undergoing overhaul, I find moving things around in reserves on that basis to be a waste of time. Ships in the reserves are usually all in the same task group, making their status easy to see at a glance. The Naval Org tab lets you split squadrons out of the reserve quickly and easily.
*Working up -  Ships with incomplete squadrons or that are undergoing TF training. Once training and initial overhaul is completed, they are assigned to reserves.
*Expeditionary - Major long range expeditions such as war fleets or groups attempting to confront distant Spoiler threats.

Over time, I've rejected putting civilian auxiliaries (cargo ships, colony ships etc.) into TFs, mainly it's a pain with minimal benefits.  However, it's very helpful to have naval auxiliaries like fuel tankers and troop transports in the tab.

Finally... naming your task groups properly is important to making things easier.  In my ideal, all similar squadrons are next to eachother in the Task Group dropdown. To accomplish this, I named my squadrons things like 'Division Battle 105' or Division Missile 207.  Another method is to use abbreviations at the start of TG names - a riff on my earlier TGs would be 'DB105 Hyperion' or 'DM207 Tornado'.

I did some basic Wiki research and came up with the following sample scheme.

-Soviet Military Star Fleet (TF HQ)
--Solar Fleet
---BG 1st Operational Squadron
----NVG 5th Attack Group (Battle Squadron)
----NVG 6th Attack Group
----NVG 2nd Aviation Group (Aviation Cruisers)
----NVS 157th Star Regiment (Fighters)
--Centauri Fleet
---BG 2nd Operational Squadron
----NVG 3rd Attack Group
--Earth Military District
---SRF 43rd Rocket Army (Earth PDCs)
----NVS 124th Star Regiment
---SRF 27th Guards Rocket Army (Earth Defence Stations)
--Mars Military District
---SRF 30th Rocket Army (Mars PDCs)
--Military Reserves
---NVG 4th Attack Group
---NVG 1st Attack Group
---NVU Military Transport Command (Troop Transports)
--Training Command
---NVG 7th Attack Group
---NVS 43rd Star Regiment
---NVS 85th Star Regiment
---NVG 3rd Aviation Group


etc.
 

Offline Marski (OP)

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Re: Creating a Believable Naval Organization
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2012, 01:29:24 PM »
Thanks for the massive amounts of tips Deadlyshoe, althought I already got my hands on some Soviet documents containing structural details of the Naval Organization of that time. However I implemented your ideas with the real life organization, and here's the result.



What do you think? I obviously still lack warships, but I intentionally held back until I got my hands on Fusion technology.

PS. I don't know how exactly numbering your groups 'n' stuff goes, but by my logic no matter in what branch they are, two same named divisions or groups will be numbered 1 and 2.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2012, 01:37:58 PM by Marski »
 

Offline Marski (OP)

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Re: Creating a Believable Naval Organization
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2012, 02:33:44 PM »
So in navy military structure, it's possible to have a "group" within a "division", and the group has another "division" inside it, or does it follow the land military logic and it is called "Regiment/brigade"?
 

Offline niflheimr

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Re: Creating a Believable Naval Organization
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2012, 04:23:09 AM »
I kinda prefer the Fleet - Taskforce - Taskgroup - Squadron - Wing(for <2kt) designation. Feels a bit more spacey :D If I need more than one fleet for a deployment (not really likely ) I go with a Force -Operation name- container.
 

Offline Havear

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Re: Creating a Believable Naval Organization
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2012, 06:52:54 AM »
It usually depends for me based on what type of group it is. Warships and their attached support ships in the same fleet are divided into task forces and task groups, which are then sometimes, but not often, divided into squadrons for transits. My current levels of shipping have been too low to really make a "fleet", but it ends up with any fleet, e.g. First Fleet, seperated into three task forces. TF11 and 12 have the warships, with TG1*.1 being a battleship TG, TG1*.2 and .3 being cruiser TGs, and .4 and .5 being destroyer TGs. The destroyer TGs are further subdivided into two squadrons (alpha and beta). TF13 is subdivided into two TGs, each equipped with tankers and supply ships.

Commercial ships are usually trickier. I have a Survey Command which I assign all survey ships to, but most commercial vessels are under Fleet Headquarters. That's divided into Corps, such as the Cargo Transport, Colony Transport, Troop Transport, Fuel Transport, and other Corps, and then those are further subdivided into divisions for individual routes or missions.

I should also mention I keep a System Defense Command, where I assign all fixed or semi-mobile defenses like PDCs, ODCs, or pods deployed defensively in orbit or on jump points. Oft-times there's a subdivision for "mothballed" units in stasis box PDCs.
 

Offline SteelChicken

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Re: Creating a Believable Naval Organization
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2012, 02:54:08 PM »
I'm just getting into learning this part of the game.  Is this mostly for bean counting and such....or do the bonus's add significant value?   

I'm also of the school of:  Theater Command > Fleet > Task force > task groups
 

Offline Zook

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Re: Creating a Believable Naval Organization
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2012, 03:44:47 PM »
The crew training bonus is important for warships. But what's the point of having a TF for freighters or survey ships?
 

Offline Steve Walmsley

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Re: Creating a Believable Naval Organization
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2012, 04:36:47 PM »
The crew training bonus is important for warships. But what's the point of having a TF for freighters or survey ships?

Logistics bonus decreases their loading times

Steve
 

Offline Zook

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Re: Creating a Believable Naval Organization
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2012, 05:09:50 PM »
But only if the TF commander is in the same system, right? That's almost never the case.
 

Offline Gidoran

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Re: Creating a Believable Naval Organization
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2012, 06:06:30 PM »
It might not be useful for interstellar shipping, but in a single system where you're dealing with multiple bodies it would be worth it. Say, Sol come the new release, where we'll have a ridiculous amount of bodies to play with.
"Orbital bombardment solves a myriad of issues permanently. This is sometimes undesirable."
- Secretary General Orlov of the Triumvirate of Venus
 

Offline Marski (OP)

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Re: Creating a Believable Naval Organization
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2012, 02:05:03 AM »
I am organizing the ships as they are for logistical reasons (because I love organizing things), so in case of combat I send one battlegroup into combat and keep other groups in reserve, and so if things go bad to worse, I haven't wasted units from other battlegroups. However I do not know if the game automatically assigns officers to lead groups (or if its even possible currently), would be neat too. Like Fleet is commanded (according to soviet structure) by Fleet admiral, Battlegroup by Admiral, divisions by Rear Admiral, and Battle Divisions by Vice Admirals.

And I like the sound of sending entire fleet when I absolutely, positively, want to kill everything and everyone in a system.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2012, 02:22:26 AM by Marski »