Ships

[bouninng]

Plz advice me to my first combat ship at aurora.
I aimed to 6000t class general purpose small combat ship,but it expanded to 8000t.

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Prometheus class Destroyer    8,000 tons     225 Crew     1542.06 BP      TCS 160  TH 300  EM 60
3750 km/s    JR 3-50     Armour 3-35     Shields 2-300     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 7     PPV 31.6
Maint Life 4.82 Years     MSP 843    AFR 73%    IFR 1%    1YR 60    5YR 896    Max Repair 288 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 10 months    Spare Berths 0   
Magazine 100   

J8000(3-50) Military Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 8000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 3
300 EP Internal Fusion Drive (2)    Power 300    Fuel Use 19.48%    Signature 150    Exp 7%
Fuel Capacity 750,000 Litres    Range 86.6 billion km   (267 days at full power)
Gamma R300/240 Shields (1)   Total Fuel Cost  10 Litres per hour  (240 per day)

Twin 2055 12cm C4 Ultraviolet Laser Turret (2x2)    Range 160,000km     TS: 6600 km/s     Power 8-8     RM 4    ROF 5        4 4 4 4 3 2 2 2 1 1
Fire Control S06 96-16000 H70 (1)    Max Range: 192,000 km   TS: 16000 km/s     95 90 84 79 74 69 64 58 53 48
Tokamak Fusion Reactor Technology PB-1 (2)     Total Power Output 16    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Size 8 Box Launcher (8)    Missile Size 8    Hangar Reload 60 minutes    MF Reload 10 hours
Size 1 Missile Launcher (4)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 10
AMM Missile Fire Control FC3-R1 (70%) (1)     Range 3.8m km    Resolution 1
Missile Fire Control FC29-R60 (70%) (1)     Range 29.3m km    Resolution 60
Size 1 Anti-missile Missile (36)  Speed: 40,000 km/s   End: 1.9m    Range: 4.7m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 386/232/116
Size 8 Anti-ship Missile (8)  Speed: 30,000 km/s   End: 19.8m    Range: 35.7m km   WH: 20    Size: 8    TH: 170/102/51

2055 Active Search Sensor MR29-R60 (70%) (1)     GPS 3780     Range 29.3m km    Resolution 60
2052 AMM Active Search Sensor MR3-R1 (70%) (1)     GPS 63     Range 3.8m km    MCR 412k km    Resolution 1

ECM 10

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

[JacenHan]

A few things:

- The laser turrets have a tracking speed of 6600 km/s, while their fire control has a TS of 16000 km/s, and they will only use the lower of the two.
- You seem to have tried to fit both anti-ship and anti-missile missiles into one design, and ended up with something that really isn't good at either. I'd recommend ditching the AMMs and adding more anti-ship box launchers (or replace the box launchers with regular missile launchers).
- Shields are meant to be used in large numbers, your one shield generator won't stop even one tenth of your ASM warhead. With a ship this small shields probably aren't worth the mass you would have to spend on them to be useful.
- The active sensors are very short ranged for the tech level of the rest of the ship, with internal fusion drives I would expect sensor ranges of over 200m km.
- The engines appear to be high-efficiency, which makes the ship fairly slow for that tech level, but that isn't too much of an issue if you really need it to have a long range.

Overall, I think the main problem is that it tries to do too much at once. When it has to split its mission load between beam combat, offensive missiles, defensive missiles, and jump capability, it ends up not doing good at any of those. General purpose ships are really hard to do in such a small hull size, specialization is key here.

[Starmantle]

Prometheus class Destroyer

It's a great first shot at a combat ship, bouninng.  Good work.  I wish my first combat designs were this good.

Still, lots of room for improvement. 

My thoughts for what they're worth:
- Divide up ship responsibilities more.  This is a jumpship/ anti-ship beam platform / anti-ship missile platform / anti-missile escort.  It does all those things pretty poorly, so this should instead be 4 ship designs of identical size and speed working together.
- 2 points of shields probably isn't worth it, particularly with armor that weak.  I'd get the armor up to 5 or so if it were me and drop the shield.
- I'm a fan of slow ships, but this ship is too slow for me.  I'd give ships 25% engine at the least and standard efficiency engines.  Some people like it much faster than that. 
- As JacenHan said, there's a mismatch in fire control and turret speed.  If you want super fast laser turrets that can be good anti-missile guns and anti-sip guns, I'd bring it up to the higher speed.  Though again, that's trying to do two things well at once, so it's going to come up a little short. 
- Like JacenHan, the sensors aren't strong enough.  Maybe your new jumpship will double as yur sensor ship and the other vessels can just have small backup sensors?

But really, it comes down to how you want to use the ship(s).  Doctrine and need and design have to be aligned.

I look forward to seeing a next iteration of this!
- That's a really big maintenance life and fuel range and a comparatively low deployment time.  THat's not insane and it ultimately plans on how you want to use the fleet, but I bet fuel is taking up a lot of weight. 

[Iranon]

To elaborate a little on the concerns voiced:

1) That jump drive is good for 3 ships, so you want it on a third of your ships at most, the rest could get more firepower. Personally, I prefer to put them on commercial hulls featuring an oversized propulsion package (so they can keep up with your military ships), basic sensor package and enough fuel to serve as a tanker.

2) I actually like your power plant in terms of size/performance/efficiency. However, I probably wouldn't pay extra for thermal reduction for a general purpose combat ship.

3) I don't mind the shields either. You gain little, but you also invest little... and protecting the paintjob from a single leaker seems fine. My main issue with tiny shielding: Is it worth my attention to switch them on and off as needed?

4) Mission life is peculiar but not bad. If you want to keep this ship at the edges of your empire, it makes a lot of sense: You only need to return for overhauls every few years, R&R can be done locally. If this is intended to sit at home until an extended mission is called for, a third of the maintenance life would still be fine.

5) Agree on what others said about the turrets, you really need to fit enough tracking gear to get the most out of your sophisticated BFC. This is one part where your lack of specialisation hurts, that BFC is expensive and I'd want it to control more than 4 barrels.

6) Your electronics probably don't need hardening, afaik the AI doesn't use microwaves. And even if it did - you're trying to outrange that kind of threat, if hardening becomes relevant everything is falling apart already.

7) You probably want to bring a dedicated sensor vessel for situational awareness, especially for a longer detection of enemy missiles. The onboard sensor capability seems a very reasonable backup though, you can fight capably without outside help.



In general, a very nice ship for an early attempt! the only major problem is the mismatch between BFC and turret tracking speed. Apart form that, it seems a little overengineered with very many "nice-to-haves" for the size; leaner and more focused ships may be more efficient.
If "no single point of failure, everyone should be able to do everything" is important to you, that's not even a problem.

[Drgong]

Plz advice me to my first combat ship at aurora.
I aimed to 6000t class general purpose small combat ship,but it expanded to 8000t.

It looks a lot like some of my early ships.
the first question you have to ask is "What is the role(s) this ship has?

Generally a ship can be good at 1 thing and can be a fallback to another. 

What I would do....

- decide if this is a anti-ship, or anti-missile ship.   (One of the neat tricks is if you design them right, you can make a anti-ship and a anti-missile sister ships and built them in the same shipyard without retooling.
-drop the shield
- match the fire control and the turret speed for the laser.  or at least make them more close.  I rather have one faster tracking laser then two slower, but that me.
-do you REALLY need it to be used as a jump vessel, it is fine if that is the case.  If not, drop that. 
-I actually don't mind the speed and really long range, but there no reason to use the thermal reduction on this ship, and the cost will be much less.  I generally aim for 20 billion as any longer I will use tankers.   But that me.


What I would recommend.

- re-engine to at least remove the thermal reduction, it is expensive and you do not need it.
- remove the shield, box launchers, and long range sensor.   
- make it 1 turret, with faster speed to match what you can track
- Think about a CIWS since this may be a patrol craft working on it own. 

then make a 2nd version that has the box launchers and long range sensors.  And if you play around with it, you may be able to built them on the same shipyard. 

[celem]

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Mammoth class Tug    35 000 tons     286 Crew     3430.4 BP      TCS 700  TH 2800  EM 0
11428 km/s     Armour 2-95     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 0
MSP 61    Max Repair 112 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Spare Berths 0   
Tractor Beam     

320 EP Commercial Inertial Fusion Drive (25)    Power 320    Fuel Use 2.28%    Signature 112    Exp 4%
Fuel Capacity 1 255 000 Litres    Range 283.1 billion km   (286 days at full power)

CIWS-250 (2x8)    Range 1000 km     TS: 25000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes
I'm enjoying this far more than I ought to considering it's just a tug.    But not only will it make a respectable 1,500 hauling a quarter-mil, it can drag my flagship and still outpace the rest of the fleet.    It works in tandem with a very-fast refueler as part of a rescue pair, and has twice to-date extracted crippled cruisers from combats.    The max mass was dictated by the tanker who carries the jump.

[Michael Sandy]

I like the idea of a heavily armored tanker/tug.  Early in the game, I don't have that many shipyards, or any really big ones.  It is a lot easier to get a commercial shipyard to build a heavily armored tug/tanker to act as damage sponge than it is to build a naval shipyard that big.  Add a jump engine and you have strategic mobility as well, even if you don't get assault capability with a commercial jump drive.

[Starmantle]

I like your Mammoth class Tug.  I need to start using things like that more often!

[Starmantle]

In my current TN game, I'm building up a training fleet of 80 Frogfoot class Trainers, and headed towards 4 Rigor class Training Carriers.  The former are for training up officers, while the latter are for training wings of fighters either without racking up wear and tear on their "real" carriers" or for getting PDC-based fighter wings some taskforce training time.  The carriers also help me overhaul fighters, which can otherwise be tricky.  In past games, something like the Rigor has also been helpful in staging jump point assaults or helping to move captured enemy ships around (that are otherwise prone to explosion).

Plus, it's all fun to roleplay, the ships are super efficient, etc. and I tend to more or less leave them on taskforce training (well, the Frogfoots, anyway).

Does anyone else use ships like this?

(clipping from a recent game log)

_____
Fleet Command has also drawn up plans for the Frogfoot class Trainer, an ultra-light shuttle designed to train a group of 4 junior officers and a Lieutenant.  The ship is relatively fast and incredibly efficient in terms of fuel consumption, life support self-sufficiency, construction cost, and ability to effect repairs.  The ship has one small active sensor and room for a single passenger, often a more senior officer there to drill crews.  Eventually, Fleet Command wants a wing of 80 Trainers in Sol, but it might have to wait for that plan to be fully implemented.   

Frogfoot class Trainer    135 tons     4 Crew     23.4 BP      TCS 2.7  TH 4  EM 0
1481 km/s     Armour 1-2     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 0
Maint Life 0 Years     MSP 54    AFR 0%    IFR 0%    1YR 0    5YR 0    Max Repair 8 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 64 months    Spare Berths 1   

4 EP Nuclear Pulse Engine (1)    Power 4    Fuel Use 14%    Signature 4    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 20 000 Litres    Range 190.4 billion km   (1488 days at full power)

Active Search Sensor MR0-R10 (1)     GPS 10     Range 180k km    Resolution 10

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes

To aid in the maintenance and training of shuttle and future faster fighter crews, Fleet Command orders construction of its first carrier.  The Rigor can carry 44 of armed shuttles or other strike craft.  The carrier is slow, efficient,  un-armored and isn't expected to ever leave the inner system.  The carrier is massive and is built around the largest, oldest shipyard in orbit.

The Rigor class Training Carrier is laid down for construction and is being built alongside the two Ogre class Troop Transports and three Apollo class Freighters. 

Rigor class Training Carrier    30 000 tons     460 Crew     3108 BP      TCS 600  TH 240  EM 0
400 km/s     Armour 1-86     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 21     PPV 0
Maint Life 13.5 Years     MSP 1360    AFR 342%    IFR 4.8%    1YR 14    5YR 208    Max Repair 48 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 42 months    Flight Crew Berths 279   
Hangar Deck Capacity 22000 tons     

240 EP Commercial Ion Drive (1)    Power 240    Fuel Use 3.54%    Signature 240    Exp 4%
Fuel Capacity 300 000 Litres    Range 50.8 billion km   (1471 days at full power)

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Cross-Posted to /r/Aurora4x - https://www.reddit.com/r/aurora4x/comments/7u5ied/rigor_class_training_carrier_and_frogfoot_class/

[Gabethebaldandbold]

let me share my fleet too, I am kind of proud of this one.

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Load Bearer class Ammunition Transport    36 000 tons     739 Crew     6432.6 BP      TCS 720  TH 4950  EM 1560
6875 km/s    JR 5-50     Armour 2-97     Shields 52-250     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 35     PPV 0
Maint Life 1.2 Years     MSP 3675    AFR 691%    IFR 9.6%    1YR 2635    5YR 39521    Max Repair 1143 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Spare Berths 3   
Magazine 4344    Cryogenic Berths 400   

Tender 1     Max Ship Size 36000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 5
1650 EP Internal Fusion Drive (3)    Power 1650    Fuel Use 52.46%    Signature 1650    Exp 16%
Fuel Capacity 4 300 000 Litres    Range 41.0 billion km   (68 days at full power)
Delta R250/180 Shields (21)   Total Fuel Cost  158 Litres per hour  (3 780 per day)

CIWS-250 (4x8)    Range 1000 km     TS: 25000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
AMM-S1 III (1800)  Speed: 54 000 km/s   End: 9.6m    Range: 31m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 576/345/172
ASM-S12 III (185)  Speed: 33 300 km/s   End: 153.6m    Range: 306.9m km   WH: 16    Size: 12    TH: 277/166/83
Dummie S-12 III (27)  Speed: 33 300 km/s   End: 161.3m    Range: 322.2m km   WH: 4    Size: 12    TH: 188/113/56

ECM 40

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
this is my collier, it also dubles as a jump ship and is an essential part of my fleet, since I am stupid and didn't put that much magazine space on my ships took a couple battles before I found out that I didn't have enough missiles to endure a prolonged assault, or to make one for that matter

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Invincible class Destroyer    11 150 tons     334 Crew     2325.96 BP      TCS 223  TH 1650  EM 900
7399 km/s     Armour 3-44     Shields 30-250     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 24     PPV 60
Maint Life 1.72 Years     MSP 1522    AFR 248%    IFR 3.5%    1YR 625    5YR 9377    Max Repair 825 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Spare Berths 1   
Magazine 456   

1650 EP Internal Fusion Drive (1)    Power 1650    Fuel Use 52.46%    Signature 1650    Exp 16%
Fuel Capacity 1 250 000 Litres    Range 38.5 billion km   (60 days at full power)
Delta R250/180 Shields (12)   Total Fuel Cost  90 Litres per hour  (2 160 per day)

Size 12 Missile Launcher (5)    Missile Size 12    Rate of Fire 75
Missile Fire Control FC352-R100 (70%) (1)     Range 352.8m km    Resolution 100
ASM-S12 III (30)  Speed: 33 300 km/s   End: 153.6m    Range: 306.9m km   WH: 16    Size: 12    TH: 277/166/83
Dummie S-12 III (8)  Speed: 33 300 km/s   End: 161.3m    Range: 322.2m km   WH: 4    Size: 12    TH: 188/113/56

ECM 40

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
this is my destroyer, and he is the one making most of the damage, I currently have 9 of them in my strike group and it has been very effective

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Illustrious class Command Cruiser    21 000 tons     585 Crew     5372 BP      TCS 420  TH 2700  EM 1740
6428 km/s     Armour 5-67     Shields 58-250     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 30     PPV 90.91
Maint Life 1.61 Years     MSP 2599    AFR 352%    IFR 4.9%    1YR 1173    5YR 17599    Max Repair 1050 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Spare Berths 1   
Magazine 492   

1350 EP Internal Fusion Drive (2)    Power 1350    Fuel Use 31.76%    Signature 1350    Exp 13%
Fuel Capacity 1 500 000 Litres    Range 40.5 billion km   (72 days at full power)
Delta R250/180 Shields (23)   Total Fuel Cost  173 Litres per hour  (4 140 per day)

Quad Gauss Cannon R3-100 Turret (1x12)    Range 30 000km     TS: 16000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 3    ROF 5        1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S06 120-25000 H70 (1)    Max Range: 240 000 km   TS: 25000 km/s     96 92 88 83 79 75 71 67 62 58

Size 12 Missile Launcher (5)    Missile Size 12    Rate of Fire 75
Missile Fire Control FC352-R100 (70%) (1)     Range 352.8m km    Resolution 100
ASM-S12 III (31)  Speed: 33 300 km/s   End: 153.6m    Range: 306.9m km   WH: 16    Size: 12    TH: 277/166/83
Dummie S-12 III (10)  Speed: 33 300 km/s   End: 161.3m    Range: 322.2m km   WH: 4    Size: 12    TH: 188/113/56

Active Search Sensor MR1391-R140 (70%) (1)     GPS 117600     Range 1 391.5m km    Resolution 140
Active Search Sensor MR23-R1 (70%) (1)     GPS 210     Range 23.1m km    MCR 2.5m km    Resolution 1

ECCM-4 (1)         ECM 40

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
somebody needs to have the sensors, and although I dont really use the R1 sensor, I left it in there because its a good backup in case my point defense ships get destroyed I currently have 3 of these. which by the way, never happened

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Defender - Refit class Destroyer    11 000 tons     305 Crew     2894.76 BP      TCS 220  TH 1650  EM 750
7500 km/s     Armour 3-44     Shields 25-250     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 24     PPV 33
Maint Life 1.39 Years     MSP 1658    AFR 242%    IFR 3.4%    1YR 927    5YR 13910    Max Repair 825 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Spare Berths 0   
Magazine 429   

1650 EP Internal Fusion Drive (1)    Power 1650    Fuel Use 52.46%    Signature 1650    Exp 16%
Fuel Capacity 1 250 000 Litres    Range 39.0 billion km   (60 days at full power)
Delta R250/180 Shields (10)   Total Fuel Cost  75 Litres per hour  (1 800 per day)

S-1 PDL (33)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 10
Missile Fire Control FC117-R1 (70%) (1)     Range 117.6m km    Resolution 1
AMM-S1 III (429)  Speed: 54 000 km/s   End: 9.6m    Range: 31m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 576/345/172

Active Search Sensor MR78-R1 (70%) (1)     GPS 560     Range 78.4m km    MCR 8.5m km    Resolution 1

ECM 40

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposeshey thats a nice missile you are howling at my direction. be a shame if it exploded. I have 6 o those bad boys and let me tell you its very hard to overwhelm their point defense, especially if they are all together.
so yeah... pretty neat huh?

[TT]

Gabe,

I can't help but think that your fleet suffers from a lack of firepower. It looks like you've created a fleet that relys on missles for the majority of your offensive firepower. Your main missile ship is a little over 11000 tons with only 5 launchers. part of the problem is that your missiles are pretty big. I'd cut those missiles down to size six. I'd also use reduced size launchers. If you cut down your launcher size to size 6 and use .25 reduced size launchers,you should get 40 launchers instead of 5. That looks a lot better to me. Good luck.

[Gabethebaldandbold]

Gabe,

I can't help but think that your fleet suffers from a lack of firepower. It looks like you've created a fleet that relys on missles for the majority of your offensive firepower. Your main missile ship is a little over 11000 tons with only 5 launchers. part of the problem is that your missiles are pretty big. I'd cut those missiles down to size six. I'd also use reduced size launchers. If you cut down your launcher size to size 6 and use .25 reduced size launchers,you should get 40 launchers instead of 5. That looks a lot better to me. Good luck.

makes pupy face but.. i like big missiles... They are big... And pointy... and they go BOOM...

[Gabethebaldandbold]

Also, the idea is to try and exaust the enemy point defense by throwing armoured missiles at them, and I use these missiles to probe their defenses and try to calculate the right concossion of missiles to overthrow it, using the armoured dummies to draw fire from the ASMs, and sure I didn't do the math but I think it may be more economic to do things this way rather than sending 400 missiles to their face. also these missiles hit for 16 which means shock damage, and I recon its a bit harder to get that with size 6 missiles

[TT]

There are alot of different approaches to offensive fire power and I'm sure you can make a small number of fast firing large missiles work. When I looked at your fleet, my first thought was "Gabe should have more launchers for that tonnage". But when you said you liked big missiles, that was good enough for me.  If you find yourself having trouble getting through point defenses the you can always develop a multi stage missile to up your broadside count. Good luck.

[JacenHan]

Armored missiles help a lot too, since I don't think that the AI really knows how to counter them effectively. It can still get lucky, but it won't try to do anything like build higher caliber PD.