C# Aurora Changes Discussion

[Lamandier]

You should take a look at all the successful science fiction universes. Everything that can be ( without breaking the fiction ) is based on or inspired by real places / cultures / knowledge / behavior to make us immersed in the world and make the world feel plausible and "real".

The same thing is true for all successful games.

He's not wrong. IMO y'all have been getting way, way, way too into minutiae and non-game-related arguments in this thread for the past few weeks. It's great that Steve is expanding and fleshing out the ground combat, but this is not a ground combat-centric game.

Frankly, there's a part of me that, at this point, wishes Steve would scrap the ground combat revamp altogether if only to end this ridiculously nitpicky discussion. (But only a part.)

[Person012345]

You should take a look at all the successful science fiction universes. Everything that can be ( without breaking the fiction ) is based on or inspired by real places / cultures / knowledge / behavior to make us immersed in the world and make the world feel plausible and "real".

The same thing is true for all successful games.

And both multirole and dedicated role aircraft have precedent in reality. So what was your point? I'm not saying lets just go pure fantasy, my point is that much as new technologies such as guided missiles and jet engines have completely changed the way we conduct air combat today vs world war II, it's entirely justifiable when you have all these new technologies and hypothetical imaginary substances, that the things you can do with them will be different than what we can do today and multirole may no longer be competitive. Or maybe it'll be the prime way of doing things. Either system is entirely justifiable, so making arguments based on current "reality" (especially a single project that is the way it is for political reasons, not practical ones) is nonsense. What matters here is what is best for gameplay. It's not that we should ignore reality entirely, it's that we're dealing with such a hypothetical scenario that many approaches are justifiable and conceivable.

[alex_brunius]

if only to end this ridiculously nitpicky discussion. (But only a part.)

I agree. Let's all be silent instead of trying to find some interesting and engaging topics tangential to Auroras development updates to talk about. Effective now!

[Lamandier]

I agree. Let's all be silent instead of trying to find some interesting and engaging topics tangential to Auroras development updates to talk about. Effective now!

I mean, at this point people are arguing about things that have nothing to do with Aurora's development, but okay.

So sorry I interrupted your quest to be right on the internet.

[sloanjh (OP)]

Two things:

1)  The discussion seems to be getting a little testy.  Please remember the rules: http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=966.0  Don't make me get Erik involved

2)  Given the number of people who feel that the whole ground combat discussion etc has grown too big for this thread, I've made a new "C# Ground Combat" thread and stickied it.  Please put any further posts on ground combat, multi-role fighters etc. into that thread.

Thanks and Have Fun!

John

[Borealis4x]

I'm a bit worried about feature creep, both for the sake of my sanity and my processor.

Will C# get some performance upgrades?

[ChildServices]

Will C# get some performance upgrades?

I believe that's the whole point of the engine redesign.

[Steve Walmsley]

I'm a bit worried about feature creep, both for the sake of my sanity and my processor.

Will C# get some performance upgrades?

C# will run a lot faster than VB6.

[dukea42]

I'm a bit worried about feature creep, both for the sake of my sanity and my processor.

Will C# get some performance upgrades?

I agree about the feature creep, but on the sake of the release date.  Theres a whole new game inside the 7. 2/C# change list already!  It's a fine line of having the new scope to energize/inspire Steve and the limited free time it takes from getting done.   

[Bremen]

I'm a bit worried about feature creep, both for the sake of my sanity and my processor.

Will C# get some performance upgrades?

I agree about the feature creep, but on the sake of the release date.  Theres a whole new game inside the 7. 2/C# change list already!  It's a fine line of having the new scope to energize/inspire Steve and the limited free time it takes from getting done.   

Thirded about the feature creep. So while I may try to join in on discussions from time to time, I hope Steve won't hesitate to ignore any ideas he doesn't like!

[QuakeIV]

 Even too much creep of ideas that he does like would degrade the likelihood of completing the game.  That's why feature creep is becoming so disliked.  Really all we can do though is say "beware of feature creep" and hope Steve balances the ease of adding stuff before the game is all the way done vs. getting the game into a playable state before he mentally runs out of gas.

[Profugo Barbatus]

With the exception of the ground combat overhaul, everything he's doing is fairly easy in context of the fact that he's literally rewriting it from more or less scratch anyways.  If anything, this is probably one of the *best* times he could hope for to add or change things.  Its not a matter of "not changing it, save five weeks", he's gonna spend 4 weeks writing X now, and then 3 weeks rewriting it two or three releases down the line, or 5 weeks writing X with the improvements he wants now.

If this was a thing that hadn't been running for years, if this was a thing that was paid for in any sense, I'd agree with you guys completely.  But as it stands, I trust Steve will eventually release it, long cycles are somewhat the norm here for major releases anyhow.  And he doesn't really have an obligation to get something out now, and make it better later, as a commercial or even crowdfunded project might.  He can take as long as he wants. 

I also wouldn't worry about mental exhaustion much.  This is a hobby that clearly doesn't take up all his personal time, and he regularly works in spurts.  We'll get a bunch of stuff over a week or two, then not much for a bit, then another little spurt.  Sometimes he just takes a break for a month.  He's been tinkering away at this for ten years, I don't think he's really at risk of overworking himself now all of a sudden just cuz of a release hype train kek.  If anything, I'd say the recent surge of output circa ground units is just cuz "hey this is really fun to work on, and different from my normal stuff"

[Froggiest1982]

With the exception of the ground combat overhaul, everything he's doing is fairly easy in context of the fact that he's literally rewriting it from more or less scratch anyways.  If anything, this is probably one of the *best* times he could hope for to add or change things.  Its not a matter of "not changing it, save five weeks", he's gonna spend 4 weeks writing X now, and then 3 weeks rewriting it two or three releases down the line, or 5 weeks writing X with the improvements he wants now.

If this was a thing that hadn't been running for years, if this was a thing that was paid for in any sense, I'd agree with you guys completely.  But as it stands, I trust Steve will eventually release it, long cycles are somewhat the norm here for major releases anyhow.  And he doesn't really have an obligation to get something out now, and make it better later, as a commercial or even crowdfunded project might.  He can take as long as he wants. 

I also wouldn't worry about mental exhaustion much.  This is a hobby that clearly doesn't take up all his personal time, and he regularly works in spurts.  We'll get a bunch of stuff over a week or two, then not much for a bit, then another little spurt.  Sometimes he just takes a break for a month.  He's been tinkering away at this for ten years, I don't think he's really at risk of overworking himself now all of a sudden just cuz of a release hype train kek.  If anything, I'd say the recent surge of output circa ground units is just cuz "hey this is really fun to work on, and different from my normal stuff"

I strongly agree, but! Of course, there is a but.

I have always understood Steve's choices and I have always agreed with them and I will always thank him for such beautiful product he managed to create. However, I really would like, considering that he always refused to release the master code and password to the public, that one day when he does not feel like to update or carrying on this project he would also give the possibility to someone else or the community to move forward releasing such codes. I admire him lots but I would hate to get a forever unfinished product.

For example, once Aurora C# is out, have the V6 database unlocked would be already a step forward.

[Borealis4x]

I was actually talking about mental fatigue on the part of the player who now needs to manage all the new ground stuff in addition to the space stuff....

[Barkhorn]

Really the only part of Aurora that's mandatory is ship design.  You don't absolutely have to terraform.  You don't absolutely have to do gene modifications.  You don't absolutely have to do ground combat.  You don't even need populated colonies.  So if the game is too mentally taxing for you, just ignore parts of it.  Your empire will be a little worse if you do, but it doesn't really matter.  NPR AI is pretty braindead and not really much of a challenge.