geosurvey missiles?

[NuclearStudent]

But yeah, any CC:0 planet you could send a missile at - even if it gets intercepted, at least you then know that the neighbourhood is busy.

That's actually a good point.
If the intent of sending a geo survey missile is merely to avoid risking the loss of an expensive geo survey ship, you can achieve the same thing by sending a much-cheaper missile instead.
Just put the minimum possible thermal sensor on it.
If it makes it to the planet, you'll know if the planet is hot or not.
If it doesn't make it to the planet--well, now you know that the planet is hot.

If a missile doesn't have a warhead, will it still be interpreted as an act of war?

[db48x (OP)]

If a missile doesn't have a warhead, will it still be interpreted as an act of war?

Only if it does damage to a ship. Without a warhead I don't think it will actually hit anything; it just goes to the same position as the target.

[Pedroig]

Depends on whom it was shot at, a player might see it as hostile, an AI will probably not consider it a threat.

[skoormit]

But yeah, any CC:0 planet you could send a missile at - even if it gets intercepted, at least you then know that the neighbourhood is busy.

That's actually a good point.
If the intent of sending a geo survey missile is merely to avoid risking the loss of an expensive geo survey ship, you can achieve the same thing by sending a much-cheaper missile instead.
Just put the minimum possible thermal sensor on it.
If it makes it to the planet, you'll know if the planet is hot or not.
If it doesn't make it to the planet--well, now you know that the planet is hot.

If a missile doesn't have a warhead, will it still be interpreted as an act of war?

I don't know.
But a missile like this, with a minimum-size sensor and no warhead, is not intending to absolutely provoke a response.
Instead, it is intending to tell you if it is safe to approach the target body for a geo survey.
If the missile makes it to the target, you will see if there is any thermal signature on the planet.
If a thermal signature is present, then you should assume it is not safe for a geo survey.
If the missile is shot down before reaching the target, you can also assume it is not safe for a geo survey.

[Garfunkel]

Only damage and active sensors cause a negative impact with NPRs.

If they have claimed a system, then anything and everyhing present in that system will also cause a negative impact.

[xenoscepter]

I like 'em, with reduced sized launchers you can very much get more sensor per ton over ship-mounted Geological Survey Sensors. That said, they're a bigger PIA and not exclusively better. I'm not sure if Geosurvey Missiles scale with Geological Survey Sensor tech... might make those missiles a lot less useful in the long run.

[skoormit]

with reduced sized launchers you can very much get more sensor per ton over ship-mounted Geological Survey Sensors.

But a missile can only be used once. The ship-mounted sensors are reusable indefinitely.

[Zincat]

with reduced sized launchers you can very much get more sensor per ton over ship-mounted Geological Survey Sensors.

But a missile can only be used once. The ship-mounted sensors are reusable indefinitely.

Eh, indeed. While they are interestig, I am not particularly a fan of geosurvey missiles because then you also have to produce the missiles and go back to reload once you're empty...

I am a fan instead of the thermal sensor long range missile... to be launched at low colony cost planets with atmosphere....
You know, rather than risk a survey ship, check if the planet is HOT... 

[liveware]

So I've decided that I want to test out some different sensor/survey missile concepts because I like the concept, even if it is inefficient. I tested this previously in v195 but have not yet confirmed the same problematic behaviors I observed in v195 with v1100. I will post back shortly.

[liveware]

First Test: 2 Stage Active Sensor Buoy Targeted and Launched using MFC Commands

In this test I created 2 player races on Earth in a new game, Red Team and Blue Team. Red Team and Blue team are identical and both located on Earth, and both posses 2 shipyards and a single spaceport as their only orbital facilities. Blue Team, via SM, was given the following space station in Earth orbit:

Code: [Select]

Skylab class Orbital Research Base      111,733 tons       3,758 Crew       16,907.6 BP       TCS 2,235    TH 0    EM 0
1 km/s      Armour 1-206       Shields 0-0       HTK 1282      Sensors 250/250/0/0      DCR 560      PPV 4
Maint Life 50.13 Years     MSP 222,017    AFR 182%    IFR 2.5%    1YR 173    5YR 2,598    Max Repair 500 MSP
Magazine 19    Cargo Shuttle Multiplier 1   
Commander    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 600 months    Morale Check Required   


Blue Team Size 1 Missile Launcher (1)     Missile Size: 1    Rate of Fire 30
Blue Team Size 3.0 Missile Launcher (1)     Missile Size: 3.0    Rate of Fire 55
Blue Team Missile Fire Control FC56-R1 (1)     Range 56.4m km    Resolution 1
Blue Team Missile Fire Control FC447-R500 (1)     Range 447.8m km    Resolution 500
Blue Team Missile Fire Control FC261-R100 (1)     Range 261.9m km    Resolution 100

Blue Team Active Search Sensor AS223-R500 (1)     GPS 250000     Range 223.9m km    Resolution 500
Blue Team Active Search Sensor AS130-R100 (1)     GPS 50000     Range 130.9m km    Resolution 100
Blue Team Active Search Sensor AS28-R1 (1)     GPS 500     Range 28.2m km    MCR 2.5m km    Resolution 1
Blue Team Thermal Sensor TH50-250 (1)     Sensitivity 250     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  125m km
Blue Team EM Sensor EM50-250 (1)     Sensitivity 250     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  125m km

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Blue Team developed the following spy satellite and scout missile:

Code: [Select]

Blue Team Spy Satellite
Missile Size: 2.0 MSP  (5.00 Tons)     Warhead: 0    Radiation Damage: 0    Manoeuvre Rating: 10
Speed: 0 km/s     Fuel: 0     Flight Time: 1 seconds     Range: 0 km
Active Sensor Strength: 0.2   EM Sensitivity Modifier: 5
Resolution: 1    Maximum Range vs 50 ton object (or larger): 564,189 km
Cost Per Missile: 0.32     Development Cost: 32
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 0%   3k km/s 0%   5k km/s 0%   10k km/s 0%

Materials Required
Boronide  0.12
Uridium  0.2


Code: [Select]

Blue Team Scout Missile
Missile Size: 3.00 MSP  (7.500 Tons)     Warhead: 0    Radiation Damage: 0    Manoeuvre Rating: 10
Speed: 67 km/s     Fuel: 1,975     1st Stage Flight Time: 36,202 hours    1st Stage Range: 8,692.9m km
2nd Stage Flight Time: 1 seconds    2nd Stage Range: 0k km
Cost Per Missile: 0.32     Development Cost: 32
Second Stage: Blue Team Spy Satellite III - Active x1
Second Stage Separation Range: 0 km
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 0.7%   3k km/s 0.2%   5k km/s 0.1%   10k km/s 0.1%

Materials Required
Boronide  0.12
Uridium  0.2
Fuel:  1975

Attached is a screenshot of the tactical map following deployment of 3 different scout missiles. All 3 missiles deployed their second stage satellites as expected. The first missile, identifiable by it's active sensor on the tactical map as 'Blue Team Scout Missile II - Active Waypoint #1 (Luna)' utilized an older 2nd stage design that was identical to the one posted above except that it had a higher resolution sensor equipped. This missile was targeted at Luna from Skylab by manually placing a waypoint on Luna, setting the waypoint as the target of Skylab's missile fire controls, and setting Skylab's missile fire controls to 'open fire'. This missile successfully transited to Luna and deployed it's second stage satellite. However, as Earth and Luna continue to orbit Sol, the satellite was left behind and does not orbit Luna.

The second missile was another of the older, higher resolution design 2nd stage, and was launched from Skylab by targeting Red Team's population on Earth using Skylab's missile fire controls and setting Skylab's missile fire controls to 'open fire' as was done with Luna. This time, the missile again properly closed to it's target and deployed the 2nd stage sensor satellite, however this time the satellite remained in orbit around Earth even as Earth continues to orbit Sol.

The third missile was of the design posted and launched in the same manner as the second missile with the same results.

[liveware]

Second Test: 2 Stage Active Sensor Buoy Targeted and Launched using Fleet Commands

Alright, this test had an unexpected and surprising result. Instead of targeting a waypoint on Luna with Skylab's MFC, instead I gave the Skylab fleet the order to 'launch ready ordnance' on Luna. Note that Skylab is not equipped with engines.

The result of this order was that Skylab fleet transited to Luna, and upon entering orbit, launcher her single scout missile.

Skylab has been ordered to return to Earth, but is too slow to catch it. Possibly it will be able to intercept Earth after an orbit or two. The missile launched at Luna is also too slow to catch Luna it seems, and is actually moving at 0k km/s despite what the tactical map displays.

Attached are relevant screenshots.

[SpikeTheHobbitMage]

Second Test: 2 Stage Active Sensor Buoy Targeted and Launched using Fleet Commands

Alright, this test had an unexpected and surprising result. Instead of targeting a waypoint on Luna with Skylab's MFC, instead I gave the Skylab fleet the order to 'launch ready ordnance' on Luna. Note that Skylab is not equipped with engines.

The result of this order was that Skylab fleet transited to Luna, and upon entering orbit, launcher her single scout missile.

Skylab has been ordered to return to Earth, but is too slow to catch it. Possibly it will be able to intercept Earth after an orbit or two. The missile launched at Luna is also too slow to catch Luna it seems, and is actually moving at 0k km/s despite what the tactical map displays.

Attached are relevant screenshots.

If a ship is too slow to catch a body and misses on the first try then it won't ever catch up on its own.  What you have to do is calculate an intercept course and set a way-point.

[liveware]

Second Test: 2 Stage Active Sensor Buoy Targeted and Launched using Fleet Commands

Alright, this test had an unexpected and surprising result. Instead of targeting a waypoint on Luna with Skylab's MFC, instead I gave the Skylab fleet the order to 'launch ready ordnance' on Luna. Note that Skylab is not equipped with engines.

The result of this order was that Skylab fleet transited to Luna, and upon entering orbit, launcher her single scout missile.

Skylab has been ordered to return to Earth, but is too slow to catch it. Possibly it will be able to intercept Earth after an orbit or two. The missile launched at Luna is also too slow to catch Luna it seems, and is actually moving at 0k km/s despite what the tactical map displays.

Attached are relevant screenshots.

If a ship is too slow to catch a body and misses on the first try then it won't ever catch up on its own.  What you have to do is calculate an intercept course and set a way-point.

That is what I am attempting to do now.

I have also discovered that if you very carefully position a waypoint directly on top of a planet, the waypoint will move with the planet as the planet orbits it's star. So once I get Skylab back into Earth orbit I am going to do some more tests.

What is most strange is that when Skylab first decided to leave Earth orbit it appeared to traveling at a much higher speed than the 1 km/s it seems to be limited to now.

[liveware]

The crew of Skylab has returned safely to Earth orbit. There was much rejoicing at their return. And now for more testing...

[liveware]

It seems that eventually the missile that was launched at Luna by unintentionally relocating Skylab to Luna has run out of fuel and deployed it's second stage spy satellite. The satellite is working normally but remains in a solar-synchronous orbit at approximately 1 AU from Sol.