Civilian Shipping Line Mechanics Questions

[Bgreman (OP)]

I found this old post: http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php/topic,1329.msg10988.html#msg10988 that seems to detail how civilians make their ship class selections.

Is this still accurate?  It would seem to require you to build each ship design you want civilians to construct before the civilian lines will build one.  If this isn't the case, how are ship designs selected?

Another question is how the dividend amount and share prices for shipping lines are calculated.

I'm working on an instructional play-through on another forum, and trying to collect all this information can be a challenge, given how spread out it is.  The Rules subforum is badly out of date (most of the posts are from versions 2-4, with post dates in 2008), and it would appear some of the mechanics formulas were lost in a forums software upgrade years ago.

[Erik L]

To my knowledge, Steve has not changed the requirements for civilian shipping lines. They need a non-obsolete civilian design. They must have enough wealth to purchase said design at a cost of 1 wealth per build point. The only designs they will pick are colony and cargo. Though I do recall seeing some civs run geo survey ships, but that has been quite a while ago and I don't know if Steve changed that or not.

[Steven Kodaly]

The only designs they will pick are colony and cargo.

I assume that you are filing "luxury liner" under "colony"?

Though I do recall seeing some civs run geo survey ships, but that has been quite a while ago and I don't know if Steve changed that or not.

Civilian-operated geological survey ships?!  I must have them!  Out of curiosity, what version of Aurora were you running when you saw this?

[Erik L]

I assume that you are filing "luxury liner" under "colony"?

Yes.

Civilian-operated geological survey ships?!  I must have them!  Out of curiosity, what version of Aurora were you running when you saw this?

Hmmm... 4.something I believe. Should be easy enough to test. Build a civilian geo ship and drop enough funds into a shipping line. See if they will buy them.

[xeryon]

As far as I have heard and witnessed: Colony, Cargo and Luxury Liners are valid targets.  As far as I know civilians will build any ship that contains those modules regardless of designation or configuration of the ship.  If you have a salvage ship with cargo modules on it and it is classed as a battleship but is still a commercial vehicle it is a valid option.  If you were to design something that you would not want civilians to accidentally build once you have designed your ship go to your shipyard and select the yard to retool for your design and then go back to the ship design screen and check the obsolete box.  The design can still be built by you but civs will skip it.

I have never seen a civilian geo ship.  I would guess it is from an older version.

[wedgebert]

I think there is civilian tech that causes shipping lines to not build ships. All of my salvage ships have cargo holds, but I've never seen one built by a shipping line.

[Erik L]

To be considered for a civilian line, the ship MUST include the line "This ship is considered civilian for maintenance purposes" at the bottom of the display.

[Thiosk]

If there is another option for a freighter-- say, lower cost in build units-- the civs will build that rather than the salvager. 

I get them to routinely buy 700,000 ton monstrosities by simply obsoleting any other smaller cargo capable ships.

[Bgreman (OP)]

To my knowledge, Steve has not changed the requirements for civilian shipping lines. They need a non-obsolete civilian design. They must have enough wealth to purchase said design at a cost of 1 wealth per build point. The only designs they will pick are colony and cargo. Though I do recall seeing some civs run geo survey ships, but that has been quite a while ago and I don't know if Steve changed that or not.

I was more asking about how they pick from the eligible designs.  That post would indicate that the chance for a ship to be built is proportional to the number of those ships in service vs the total number of ships from all eligible designs.  All the discussion in this thread so far would seem to indicate it is more based on price.

I'd also like some harder numbers if I could get them.

[Erik L]

I was more asking about how they pick from the eligible designs.  That post would indicate that the chance for a ship to be built is proportional to the number of those ships in service vs the total number of ships from all eligible designs.  All the discussion in this thread so far would seem to indicate it is more based on price.

I'd also like some harder numbers if I could get them.

The only one who can supply hard numbers would be Steve

To my knowledge, the only criteria are civilian and under their current funds. If more than 2 ship designs meet those criteria, they pick the cheaper of the two.

[xeryon]

Price, it would appear, is the primary motivating factor.  I have had starts where I would design a colony ship compatible with a cargo ship and then the civilian lines would never build them.  Early game a 100,000 colonist ship is pretty expensive and the civilians elected to build 50 some odd cargo ships.  the cargo ships spent all their time in orbit since my colonies had few residents and needed no infrastructure and produced no goods to trade.  I had to go back and design a cheaper colony ship for them to build.

[Steve Walmsley]

The civs will select ships flagged as colony ships and freighters during ship design. Ship designs always get flagged as something, even though that is currently hidden from the players. I guess it wouldn't do any harm to display that value somewhere.

A freighter (for example) is a design that does have cargo holds but doesn't have a GB engine, doesn't have a hangar, doesn't have a PPV above 0, doesn't have geo or grav sensors, doesn't have troop capacity, can't build jump gates, can't harvest or terraform, can't mine asteroids, can't carry passengers or colonists, can't salvage anything, can't maintain anything and doesn't have an orbital habitat.

Civs will pick non-obsolete, non-jump capable freighters with commercial engines that are within their budget and are more likely to pick popular types currently in service, weighted by percentage in service. If there aren't any service at the moment, they will choose the most expensive design they can afford with the same criteria.

When a shipping line is selected to build a ship it will choose freighters 50% of the time, colony ships 40% of the time and liners 10% of the time. If a suitable design isn't available, or too expensive, they pass on building anything.

Steve

[schroeam]

A freighter (for example) is a design that does have cargo holds but doesn't have a GB engine, doesn't have a hangar, doesn't have a PPV above 0, doesn't have geo or grav sensors, doesn't have troop capacity, can't build jump gates, can't harvest or terraform, can't mine asteroids, can't carry passengers or colonists, can't salvage anything, can't maintain anything and doesn't have an orbital habitat.

Gosh, gve a ship a break... Make her sound like she's not good for anything...

[Erik L]

The civs will select ships flagged as colony ships and freighters during ship design. Ship designs always get flagged as something, even though that is currently hidden from the players. I guess it wouldn't do any harm to display that value somewhere.

A freighter (for example) is a design that does have cargo holds but doesn't have a GB engine, doesn't have a hangar, doesn't have a PPV above 0, doesn't have geo or grav sensors, doesn't have troop capacity, can't build jump gates, can't harvest or terraform, can't mine asteroids, can't carry passengers or colonists, can't salvage anything, can't maintain anything and doesn't have an orbital habitat.

Civs will pick non-obsolete, non-jump capable freighters with commercial engines that are within their budget and are more likely to pick popular types currently in service, weighted by percentage in service. If there aren't any service at the moment, they will choose the most expensive design they can afford with the same criteria.

Steve

Would it be possible to expand the definition of "civilian ships"?

I can see civilian fuel tankers as a possibility. I'm sure there are also others.

[Steve Walmsley]

Would it be possible to expand the definition of "civilian ships"?

I can see civilian fuel tankers as a possibility. I'm sure there are also others.

Yes, I am going to have a look at civilian fuel harvesters so I guess civilian tankers would make sense too.

Steve