How to kill 200+ 800 ton FACs?

[theonlystd (OP)]

All armed with Mesons? :p


I was thinking just trying to blow em up from long range but the Active sensor needed to see em from very far gets bigger than my jump ships pretty fast. Not to mention since they are flying at 10,000 with lvl 2 armor it will take alot of missiles


My next best idea was FACS of my own with Particle Torps since they will have more range.. But crap thats going to take quite a few and alot of fuel to move a couple systems away. But best i can think of


SturmFuer class Fast Attack Craft    1350 tons     149 Crew     211.8 BP      TCS 27  TH 120  EM 0
4444 km/s     Armour 1-10     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 6
Annual Failure Rate: 14%    IFR: 0.2%    Maint Capacity 98 MSP    Max Repair 65 MSP    Est Time: 4.07 Years

GB Ion Engine E80 (1)    Power 120    Fuel Use 800%    Signature 120    Armour 0    Exp 15%
Fuel Capacity 250,000 Litres    Range 41.7 billion km   (108 days at full power)

Particle Torpedo-3 (1)    Range 100,000km     TS: 4444 km/s     Power 7-2    ROF 20        3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3
Fire Control S06 96-4500 (1)    Max Range: 192,000 km   TS: 4500 km/s     95 90 84 79 74 69 64 58 53 48

This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes

[mavikfelna]

You need a reactor for the torpedo. Also, any way you can reduce the GB to 1000 tons will help out for speed. And you don't need a bridge if it's 1000t or less.

Build a carrier with commercial engines to carry the GB. Make sure it has plenty of extra fuel on board. Put big sensors on it too, since your GB don't have any active sensors of their own.

[theonlystd (OP)]

You need a reactor for the torpedo. Also, any way you can reduce the GB to 1000 tons will help out for speed. And you don't need a bridge if it's 1000t or less.

Build a carrier with commercial engines to carry the GB. Make sure it has plenty of extra fuel on board. Put big sensors on it too, since your GB don't have any active sensors of their own.

doh knew i was forgetting something.. power would be handy

[Nabobalis]

Do particle torpedoes require a fire control?

[Charlie Beeler]

Do particle torpedoes require a fire control?

Yes they are beam weapons.

[Charlie Beeler]

Star Swarm are tough.  Best option I've found is missile armed fighters and a way to detect the Swarms FAC's from long range.

[theonlystd (OP)]

Star Swarm are tough.  Best option I've found is missile armed fighters and a way to detect the Swarms FAC's from long range.

Ah this isnt an NPR?

I turned off Precusors or whatever so i assumed a NPR just went FAC happy.. So im guessing they dont have a nice planet for me to take either...

[Brian Neumann]

You need to do a little more reasearch by the looks of it.  If you want to use missiles against them then go for short range missiles that do 9 points of damage each.  That gives 1 point of internal damage per hit, and by the third hit there is almost no armour left if they only have 2 layers.  You can put in .01 msp for the fuel which will only give it a .5-1 million km range.  everything else goes to engine/agility to up your chance of hitting.  If you want to go the FAC route, you might look into reasearching up a couple of levels of lasers instead of the torpedo's.  A 15cm laser at close range should burn right through 2 points of armour and it will have considerably more range than the mesons do.  A near uv laser with capaciter 3 shoots every 10 seconds and has a range of 180,000 km.  That's three times the range of those meson armed FAC.  You should be able to make your FAC smaller which will also give you a better chance to hit them while upping your speed at the same time.  If you can hold thier overtake down to 2000 km/s then that would give you 5 shots before they even get into range of your FAC's.

If you really want to go the torpedo route, then I would suggest getting your torpedo size up to a damage 4 as that will at least get into the second layer of armour, which means that fewer hits will start to get internals.  Currently a 3 point damage torp requires that you hit it at least 3 times in the same area to get any internals.  By upping the damage to 4 points it only takes a minimum of 2 hits, by the third hit there should be enough overlap to get something through.  

FYI the armour on those FAC's is 2x8.  The damage pattern of torpedo's and missiles is about the same.  A 4 point damage does 3 to the first row of armour and 1 in the center to the next row.  A 3 point damage is just 3 to the first row of armour.  The chances of getting 3 hits that all overlap a single point on that armour is fairly low.  The chances that 2 hits will overlap is actually quite good, and the 3rd hit from a 4 point damage weapon will get through if it hits anywhere that either of the other shots hit.  A three point damage pattern however requires that they have 3 points from different weapons all hitting the same column.  You can see why the 4 point weapon has a lot better penetration chance overall.

Another trick you can play is to lay a mine field just before they get into range of your ships.  Either larger missiles with a good endurance (20+ minutes) that you fire at a way point, or actual captor mines.  Bouy's with a month or two endurance, several medium size missiles each with their own active sensors and an active sensor on the bouy.  Set the sensors resolution to the FAC's size and use a very small fuel load on the missiles so you can get the best performance out of the missiles.  If the captor is set to release the bouy's at 15 seconds of flight time for the missiles then they should have no problem detecting the FAC's and firing on them.  This would give you a way to put a large salvo from just a few launchers.  Even if each launcher only fires every 5 minutes with a couple of hours of lead time that is a lot of missiles that are going to be waiting for the FAC's when they come in.  Below are some samples that I designed based on what I can tell of your tech.  They are not perfect I am sure, but they should be reachable designs.  If your design did not give me what I wanted I used projects no more than 5000 rp for all of the background tech.  Hope it helps.

This is the laser armed FAC, notice how much faster it is and the faster fire control this allows.

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Tribal class Fast Attack Craft    1000 tons     114 Crew     195.8 BP      TCS 20  TH 60  EM 0
6000 km/s     Armour 1-8     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 4
Annual Failure Rate: 200%    IFR: 2.8%    Maint Capacity 0 MSP    Max Repair 86 MSP    Est Time: 0 Years

GB Ion Engine E70 (1)    Power 120    Fuel Use 700%    Signature 60    Armour 0    Exp 15%
Fuel Capacity 10,000 Litres    Range 2.6 billion km   (4 days at full power)

15cm C3 Near Ultraviolet Laser (1)    Range 180,000km     TS: 6000 km/s     Power 6-3     RM 3    ROF 10        6 6 6 4 3 3 2 2 2 1
Fire Control S08 96-6000 (1)    Max Range: 192,000 km   TS: 6000 km/s     95 90 84 79 74 69 64 58 53 48
Gas-Cooled Fast Reactor Technology PB-1 AR-0 (1)     Total Power Output 4.5    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Active Search Sensor MR0-R18 (1)     GPS 28.8     Range 230k km    Resolution 18
This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes
Here is the design for the mine that I was talking about  One of these should at least cripple a FAC if not kill it.  The missiles have about a 2/3 chance of hitting

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Buoy Size: 30 MSP  (1.5 HS)     Armour: 0
Reactor Endurance: 4.5 months
Active Sensor Strength: 0.8    Resolution: 18    Maximum Range: 144,000 km    
Cost Per Buoy: 28.004
Second Stage: Size 4 Anti-ship Missile x7
Second Stage Separation Range: 150,000 km
Materials Required:    7x Tritanium   0.9x Boronide   4.104x Uridium   18.72x Gallicite

Development Cost for Project: 2800RP
The missile that it fires is here

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Missile Size: 4 MSP  (0.2 HS)     Warhead: 4    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 20
Speed: 30000 km/s    Endurance: 0 minutes   Range: 0.7m km
Active Sensor Strength: 0.472    Resolution: 18    Maximum Range: 84,960 km    
Cost Per Missile: 3.722
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 600%   3k km/s 200%   5k km/s 120%   10k km/s 60%
Materials Required:    1x Tritanium   0.472x Uridium   2.71x Gallicite   Fuel x25

Development Cost for Project: 372RP

And the ship to lay the mines  A couple of these with a magazine ship to replentish them can lay a lot of mines in a couple of days.  Each ship can lay 24 mines in 1 hour so just two of them with a single day of laying mines with their engines turned down for 1 day can lay 1152 mines.  You probably won't need that many.  For 200 FAC's I would use two groups, One of 200 mines and the second of 100 mines placed about 1 minute flight time apart.  That would take 1 ship only 12.5 hours to emplace.  When you want to lure the FAC's to you have a ship with a really big active sensor turn it on.  Even a small sensor that has a resolution 500 can be detected very far away - see the big active sensor on this ship.

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Victory class Cruiser    7500 tons     901 Crew     1067.6 BP      TCS 150  TH 180  EM 0
2400 km/s     Armour 1-34     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 4     PPV 60
Annual Failure Rate: 112%    IFR: 1.6%    Maint Capacity 356 MSP    Max Repair 180 MSP    Est Time: 1.38 Years
Magazine 724    

Ion Engine E7 (6)    Power 60    Fuel Use 70%    Signature 30    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 150,000 Litres    Range 51.4 billion km   (248 days at full power)

Size 30 Missile Launcher (2)    Missile Size 30    Rate of Fire 300
Missile Fire Control FC3-R18 (1)     Range 3.5m km    Resolution 18
Size 4 Anti-ship Missile (1)  Speed: 30,000 km/s   End: 0.4m    Range: 0.7m km   WH: 4    Size: 4    TH: 200 / 120 / 60
Size 30 Mine (24)  Speed: 0 km/s   End: 135d    Range: 0.1m km   WH: 0    Size: 30    TH: 0 / 0 / 0

Active Search Sensor MR128-R500 (1)     GPS 16000     Range 128.0m km    Resolution 500
Active Search Sensor MR2-R18 (1)     GPS 288     Range 2.3m km    Resolution 18

[Another]

As far as I know they actually have armor 3, 800 tons and their mesons have a maximum range of 120k km and fire once per 10 seconds.
All these you could have figured out with an armed scout.

To get their attention locked when and where you need it - just turn on the transponder on a small fast ship.

Spoiler ahead:
[spoiler:2b2uqf9f]The easiest way to deal with them is actually to find and kill their mothership. I would recommend boarding it with marine companies from assault shuttles that could reach ideally about 20k km/s - I'll post such design with magneto-plasma engines later today. 10 full marine companies should be enough.

Distracting the FACs with an unarmed shuttle to get them really far away and then getting heavy ships with weapon range above 60k km to the target should also work.[/spoiler:2b2uqf9f]


[spoiler:2b2uqf9f]Edit:

Trafalgar class Dropship    400 tons     33 Crew     69 BP      TCS 8  TH 160  EM 0
20000 km/s     Armour 1-4     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 0
Annual Failure Rate: 12%    IFR: 0.2%    Maint Capacity 11 MSP    Max Repair 40 MSP    Est Time: 1.57 Years
Drop Capacity: 1 Company    

GB Magneto-plasma Drive E60 (1)    Power 160    Fuel Use 600%    Signature 160    Armour 0    Exp 15%
Fuel Capacity 10 000 Litres    Range 7.5 billion km   (4 days at full power)

This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes

This should be combined with civilian troop transports, and either a carrier with huge passive sensors and low thermal or fuel tankers and fast scout ships. It is never excessive to have some extra small, extra fast scouts in the system.[/spoiler:2b2uqf9f]

[theonlystd (OP)]

haha thanks for the advice. Since its not an NPR i decided to skip the swam for now. Will try and tackle em later with better tech


Assuming i play the Campg much longer.. The Ai doesnt seem to be puttin up much of a fight again =(

[waresky]

All armed with Mesons? :p


I was thinking just trying to blow em up from long range but the Active sensor needed to see em from very far gets bigger than my jump ships pretty fast. Not to mention since they are flying at 10,000 with lvl 2 armor it will take alot of missiles


My next best idea was FACS of my own with Particle Torps since they will have more range.. But crap thats going to take quite a few and alot of fuel to move a couple systems away. But best i can think of


SturmFuer class Fast Attack Craft    1350 tons     149 Crew     211.8 BP      TCS 27  TH 120  EM 0
4444 km/s     Armour 1-10     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 6
Annual Failure Rate: 14%    IFR: 0.2%    Maint Capacity 98 MSP    Max Repair 65 MSP    Est Time: 4.07 Years

GB Ion Engine E80 (1)    Power 120    Fuel Use 800%    Signature 120    Armour 0    Exp 15%
Fuel Capacity 250,000 Litres    Range 41.7 billion km   (108 days at full power)

Particle Torpedo-3 (1)    Range 100,000km     TS: 4444 km/s     Power 7-2    ROF 20        3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3
Fire Control S06 96-4500 (1)    Max Range: 192,000 km   TS: 4500 km/s     95 90 84 79 74 69 64 58 53 48

This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes

U need reactor yes..

then this follow my personel Naval Doctrine:

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HMS Vanguard class Raider    1000 tons     127 Crew     972.5 BP      TCS 20  TH 56  EM 0
17500 km/s     Armour 5-8     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 6
Annual Failure Rate: 10%    IFR: 0.1%    Maint Capacity 456 MSP    Max Repair 648 MSP    Est Time: 3.15 Years

GB Magnetic Confinement Fusion Drive E54 (1)    Power 350    Fuel Use 540%    Signature 56    Armour 0    Exp 90%
Fuel Capacity 10,000 Litres    Range 3.3 billion km   (52 hours at full power)

20cm C6 Plasma Carronade (1)    Range 100,000km     TS: 17500 km/s     Power 10-6     RM 1    ROF 10        10 5 3 2 2 1 1 1 1 1
Fire Control S04 240-8000 H25 (1)    Max Range: 480,000 km   TS: 8000 km/s     98 96 94 92 90 88 85 83 81 79
Inertial Confinement Fusion Reactor Technology PB-1.4 AR-0 (2)     Total Power Output 6.72    Armour 0    Exp 30%

This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes


[Shadow]

then this follow my personel Naval Doctrine:

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HMS Vanguard class Raider    1000 tons     127 Crew     972.5 BP      TCS 20  TH 56  EM 0
17500 km/s     Armour 5-8     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 6
Annual Failure Rate: 10%    IFR: 0.1%    Maint Capacity 456 MSP    Max Repair 648 MSP    Est Time: 3.15 Years

GB Magnetic Confinement Fusion Drive E54 (1)    Power 350    Fuel Use 540%    Signature 56    Armour 0    Exp 90%
Fuel Capacity 10,000 Litres    Range 3.3 billion km   (52 hours at full power)

20cm C6 Plasma Carronade (1)    Range 100,000km     TS: 17500 km/s     Power 10-6     RM 1    ROF 10        10 5 3 2 2 1 1 1 1 1
Fire Control S04 240-8000 H25 (1)    Max Range: 480,000 km   TS: 8000 km/s     98 96 94 92 90 88 85 83 81 79
Inertial Confinement Fusion Reactor Technology PB-1.4 AR-0 (2)     Total Power Output 6.72    Armour 0    Exp 30%

This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes

The lower tracking speed of the fire control system may not be bad if your targets are capital ships, but things could be tricky if you ever intend to engage missiles or small craft*. Another problem with the FC is that it's range is vastly longer than the carronade's, which is a pointless waste of resources. The FC's range tech could be purposefully reduced so to cut size, costs and therefore build time.

*If you're going against Star Spawn FACs, as the topic of the thread implies, you're going to need a TS of 10000 km/s on your FC. 8000 km/s is close, but you'll want every advantage you can get.

[Hawkeye]

Waiting for a long time before engaging them might not be all too wise, though.
I encountered a swarm of some 60 or 80 of them, pulled back to build up a fleet, and when the fleet was ready after a few years, went in again, only to encounter 200+. So I do belive, they reproduce over time. If you take 10 years after you encountered your 200+ to build your fleet, there might be 400+ then.

Just something to consider

[Charlie Beeler]

then this follow my personel Naval Doctrine:

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HMS Vanguard class Raider    1000 tons     127 Crew     972.5 BP      TCS 20  TH 56  EM 0
17500 km/s     Armour 5-8     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 6
Annual Failure Rate: 10%    IFR: 0.1%    Maint Capacity 456 MSP    Max Repair 648 MSP    Est Time: 3.15 Years

GB Magnetic Confinement Fusion Drive E54 (1)    Power 350    Fuel Use 540%    Signature 56    Armour 0    Exp 90%
Fuel Capacity 10,000 Litres    Range 3.3 billion km   (52 hours at full power)

20cm C6 Plasma Carronade (1)    Range 100,000km     TS: 17500 km/s     Power 10-6     RM 1    ROF 10        10 5 3 2 2 1 1 1 1 1
Fire Control S04 240-8000 H25 (1)    Max Range: 480,000 km   TS: 8000 km/s     98 96 94 92 90 88 85 83 81 79
Inertial Confinement Fusion Reactor Technology PB-1.4 AR-0 (2)     Total Power Output 6.72    Armour 0    Exp 30%

This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes

The lower tracking speed of the fire control system may not be bad if your targets are capital ships, but things could be tricky if you ever intend to engage missiles or small craft*. Another problem with the FC is that it's range is vastly longer than the carronade's, which is a pointless waste of resources. The FC's range tech could be purposefully reduced so to cut size, costs and therefore build time.

*If you're going against Star Spawn FACs, as the topic of the thread implies, you're going to need a TS of 10000 km/s on your FC. 8000 km/s is close, but you'll want every advantage you can get.

There is a benefit to having the fire control out range the beams in this case.  It improves to to-hit numbers for the range bands that the carronades use.  It have to enter the swarms engagement range though.

[Shadow]

There is a benefit to having the fire control out range the beams in this case.  It improves to to-hit numbers for the range bands that the carronades use.  It have to enter the swarms engagement range though.

As the saying goes, you learn something new every day.