Destroyer Group vs Frigates

[NihilRex (OP)]

We were straying afield in another thread - so I decided to toss up my new 6.41 DesRon designs.  There are 2 of everything except the DL in each squadron.  I currently field 2 squadrons with the 3rd on the way.

Definitions - Destroyers are purpose built - frigates have to be able to operate alone, in the same size class.  Cruisers are optimized for long deployment time and deep magazines.

An assault\sprint missile is FAST and has an ok hit.  A torpedo has a limited damage potential but LONG range, and once feasible, onboard sensors.  Damage of at least 4 is the only damage requirement.  Capital missiles should have at least as much range as torpedos, onboard sensors, and probably some armor and\or ECM.  Damage needs to be at least one more layer of armor than  the sprint\assault missiles.

So, doctrine is that torpedoes are used against capital ships mostly, while sprint missiles are for fighters and gunboats.  Capital missiles are only used against targets with sufficient Armor or PD to swat torpedoes.  Cap missiles are expensive after all.

Later on, when I can afford sensors on assault missiles or torpedoes, capital tubes will be used to launch missile buses.

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Ballista class Missile Destroyer    12 500 tons     260 Crew     3223.8 BP      TCS 250  TH 800  EM 0
3200 km/s     Armour 4-47     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 7     PPV 12.5
Maint Life 4.37 Years     MSP 1177    AFR 171%    IFR 2.4%    1YR 99    5YR 1489    Max Repair 800 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 30 months    Spare Berths 0   
Magazine 295   

Internal Fusion Drive (2)    Power 400    Fuel Use 72%    Signature 400    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 2 880 000 Litres    Range 57.6 billion km   (208 days at full power)

Halibut Launcher (5)    Missile Size 5    Rate of Fire 250
Torpedo Control m1 (1)     Range 384.0m km    Resolution 100
Halibut Torpedo (59)  Speed: 15 700 km/s   End: 297.2m    Range: 280m km   WH: 4    Size: 5    TH: 83/50/25

Overwatch Sensor Sweep m1 (1)     GPS 64000     Range 512.0m km    Resolution 100

ECM 10

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Hound class Destroyer    12 500 tons     268 Crew     2535.65 BP      TCS 250  TH 800  EM 0
3200 km/s     Armour 5-47     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/8/0/0     Damage Control Rating 4     PPV 45
Maint Life 3.7 Years     MSP 507    AFR 312%    IFR 4.3%    1YR 58    5YR 864    Max Repair 200 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 30 months    Spare Berths 0   
Magazine 360   

Internal Fusion Drive (2)    Power 400    Fuel Use 72%    Signature 400    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 2 685 000 Litres    Range 53.7 billion km   (194 days at full power)

Sparrow Launcher (15)    Missile Size 3    Rate of Fire 30
Middle Zone Fire Control m1 (3)     Range 14.6m km    Resolution 10
Sparrow Assault Missile (120)  Speed: 73 200 km/s   End: 3.4m    Range: 14.8m km   WH: 9    Size: 3    TH: 268/161/80

Std Sensor Pkg m1 (1)     GPS 7200     Range 47.0m km    Resolution 150
EM Detection Sensor EM1-8 (1)     Sensitivity 8     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  8m km

ECCM-1 (1)         ECM 10

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Guardian class Destroyer Escort    12 500 tons     215 Crew     2660.75 BP      TCS 250  TH 800  EM 0
3200 km/s     Armour 5-47     Shields 0-0     Sensors 8/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 4     PPV 30
Maint Life 3.54 Years     MSP 532    AFR 312%    IFR 4.3%    1YR 65    5YR 978    Max Repair 200 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 30 months    Spare Berths 0   
Magazine 525   

Internal Fusion Drive (2)    Power 400    Fuel Use 72%    Signature 400    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 3 090 000 Litres    Range 61.8 billion km   (223 days at full power)

Hoplite Launcher (30)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 10
Inner Zone Fire Control m1 (6)     Range 3.1m km    Resolution 1
Hoplite Countermissile (525)  Speed: 105 600 km/s   End: 0.4m    Range: 2.7m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 352/211/105

CM Sensor m1 (1)     GPS 32     Range 2.6m km    MCR 279k km    Resolution 1
Thermal Sensor TH1-8 (1)     Sensitivity 8     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  8m km

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Magna Carta class Destroyer Leader    15 000 tons     386 Crew     3233.55 BP      TCS 300  TH 1200  EM 0
4000 km/s    JR 7-100     Armour 3-54     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 10     PPV 28
Maint Life 5.33 Years     MSP 1347    AFR 180%    IFR 2.5%    1YR 79    5YR 1189    Max Repair 350 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 30 months    Spare Berths 0   
Magazine 256   

Destroyer Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 15200 tons    Distance 100k km     Squadron Size 7
Internal Fusion Drive (3)    Power 400    Fuel Use 72%    Signature 400    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 3 195 000 Litres    Range 53.3 billion km   (154 days at full power)

Sparrow Launcher (Small) (2)    Missile Size 3    Rate of Fire 150
Capital Missile Launcher m1 (1)    Missile Size 25    Rate of Fire 250
Torpedo Control m1 (1)     Range 384.0m km    Resolution 100
Lynx Capital Missile (4)  Speed: 24 000 km/s   End: 69.3m    Range: 99.8m km   WH: 49    Size: 25    TH: 128/76/38
Sparrow Assault Missile (10)  Speed: 73 200 km/s   End: 3.4m    Range: 14.8m km   WH: 9    Size: 3    TH: 268/161/80
Halibut Torpedo (10)  Speed: 15 700 km/s   End: 297.2m    Range: 280m km   WH: 4    Size: 5    TH: 83/50/25
Hoplite Countermissile (70)  Speed: 105 600 km/s   End: 0.4m    Range: 2.7m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 352/211/105
The closest thing I have to a frigate right now is my survey craft.

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Mercury II class Survey Ship    15 000 tons     332 Crew     2219.3 BP      TCS 300  TH 1000  EM 0
3333 km/s    JR 7-100     Armour 5-54     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/3/0     Damage Control Rating 9     PPV 12.5
Maint Life 3.19 Years     MSP 851    AFR 195%    IFR 2.7%    1YR 126    5YR 1885    Max Repair 350 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 48 months    Spare Berths 0   
Magazine 110   

Destroyer Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 15200 tons    Distance 100k km     Squadron Size 7
Commercial Internal Fusion Drive (2)    Power 500    Fuel Use 7.96%    Signature 500    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 1 100 000 Litres    Range 165.8 billion km   (575 days at full power)

Sparrow Launcher (Small) (5)    Missile Size 3    Rate of Fire 150
Hoplite Launcher (5)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 10
Inner Zone Fire Control m1 (1)     Range 3.1m km    Resolution 1
Middle Zone Fire Control m1 (1)     Range 14.6m km    Resolution 10
Sparrow Assault Missile (25)  Speed: 73 200 km/s   End: 3.4m    Range: 14.8m km   WH: 9    Size: 3    TH: 268/161/80
Hoplite Countermissile (35)  Speed: 105 600 km/s   End: 0.4m    Range: 2.7m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 352/211/105

Std Sensor Pkg m1 (1)     GPS 7200     Range 47.0m km    Resolution 150
CM Sensor m1 (1)     GPS 32     Range 2.6m km    MCR 279k km    Resolution 1
Gravitational Survey Sensors (3)   3 Survey Points Per Hour
To make that a true frigate, Id pull the grav sensors and the Commercial engines for 1 military drive, add a torpedo control and some tubes, and possibly research a boxed Capital Missile launcher so I could put 2-3 onboard as well.  Deployment time could be shortened and fuel would probably have to be added due to the lesser efficiency of military drives.

[Jorgen_CAB]

Sadly I have no real designs to present since I'm setting up my next campaign in 6.4...

My frigates are mainly relatively small and meant as an armed scout-ship and might be around 3000-6000t. Their job is to protect and patrol any colony from raiders and/or enemy attacks. If they detect a threat they can't handle they are to retreat and call in reinforcements. Frigates may operate alone or in smaller groups, it really depends on the situation. But these ships are mainly system ships and need a base with a maintenance capacity large enough to hold them. With tenders they may have a longer operation radius and even scout into neighbouring systems.

In addition to this frigates can and often are used in the escort role of transports, tenders and resupply ships. Sort of a rear echelon escort ship. Their deployment time are generally rather low, from 3-6 month at most. Their range are often not that great either, perhaps 5-10 billion km at the most. Some factions also have dedicated frigate tenders, these small tenders is also useful for other smaller ships. Frigates are usually commanded by a commander as a stepping stone before they make the rank of captain.

As I said before my Destroyers are usually a true multi-purpose ship. Very few factions would afford to build truly specialized ships so most Destroyers have some of all systems incorporated. So they will have anti-ship beam weapons, beam PD, AMM and ASM armament all in one neat package. That and some rudimentary sensors, both passive and active sensors. They are expected to be able to act alone if necessary. It is not unheard of that a lone Destroyer is tasked with escorting some non military ships here and there. Most Destroyers also have at least a boat bay with some kind of scout craft.
The size of destroyers start at about 5-6000t and can climb up considerably in size over a game, there are no real upper limit other than time, resource, technology and logistics.

My designation of cruiser are just that, a designation. It is a ship that must be able to perform independent actions such as reconnaissance in force. They will often end up in escort roles as well, usually they will escort expeditionary forces together with other fleet assets such as destroyers and carriers. They can also then be used by fleet admirals to hunt for enemy commerce ships or scout in advance of the fleet in unknown solar systems. It is however not unusual for cruisers to work in smaller groups of two or thee vessels.
Most faction will just never have the resources to build these kinds of ships. Often such projects might involve several factions working together to build them.

[Jorgen_CAB]

Ok, just for fun I did these to show of a typical low tech frigate and its tender ship for extended operations.

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Tribal class Frigate    4,000 tons     122 Crew     597.8 BP      TCS 80  TH 105.75  EM 180
1762 km/s     Armour 2-22     Shields 6-300     Sensors 16/16/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 24.3
Maint Life 2.03 Years     MSP 93    AFR 128%    IFR 1.8%    1YR 30    5YR 453    Max Repair 64 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 5 months    Flight Crew Berths 6    
Hangar Deck Capacity 250 tons     Magazine 35    

Berry Research Inc NPE-08-70  Nuclear Pulse Stardrive (2)    Power 70.4    Fuel Use 81.73%    Signature 52.8    Exp 11%
Fuel Capacity 100,000 Litres    Range 5.5 billion km   (36 days at full power)
Samsung R&D Inc SH-02-300 class Gamma Shields (3)   Total Fuel Cost  42 Litres per hour  (1,008 per day)

Owens Limited LS-04-10  12cm Ultraviolet Laser (3)    Range 120,000km     TS: 3000 km/s     Power 4-2     RM 3    ROF 10        4 4 4 3 2 2 1 1 1 1
Moran Technology PBFC-3072 Primary Beam Fire-control (1)    Max Range: 144,000 km   TS: 3000 km/s     93 86 79 72 65 58 51 44 37 31

Benetton & Vox GCPD-12000-X3  Vulcan Defence Turret (2x3)    Range 20,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 2    ROF 5        1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Moran Technology PDFC-12024  Point-defence Fire-control (1)    Max Range: 48,000 km   TS: 12000 km/s     79 58 38 17 0 0 0 0 0 0

Austin-Barnett PB-03  Gas-Cooled Fast Reactor Power-plant (2)     Total Power Output 6.21    Armour 0    Exp 12%

Borkov SML-3003  Small Missile Box Launcher (4)    Missile Size 3    Rate of Fire 3000
Riley-Parry MFC-10005  MR-05 class Missile Fire-control (1)     Range 10.3m km    Resolution 5
Vulcan-II class Anti-ship missile (4)  Speed: 16,000 km/s   End: 16.4m    Range: 15.8m km   WH: 6    Size: 3    TH: 74/44/22

Borkov ILS-1000  Interceptor Box Launcher (6)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 1000
Riley-Parry MFC-251  MR-01 class Missile Fire-control (1)     Range 2.3m km    Resolution 1
Viper-I class Fast Interceptor (6)  Speed: 17,600 km/s   End: 3.4m    Range: 3.6m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 129/77/38

Vulcan-II class Anti-ship missile (4)  Speed: 16,000 km/s   End: 16.4m    Range: 15.8m km   WH: 6    Size: 3    TH: 74/44/22
Viper-I class Fast Interceptor (5)  Speed: 17,600 km/s   End: 3.4m    Range: 3.6m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 129/77/38

Thorpe Systems ASS-251  MR-01 class Search Sensor (1)     GPS 29     Range 2.3m km    MCR 251k km    Resolution 1
Thorpe Systems ASS-11004  MR-05 class Search Sensor (1)     GPS 320     Range 11.4m km    Resolution 5
Parsons Electronics TH-02-16  Thermal Imaging System (1)     Sensitivity 16     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  16m km
Barton Inc. EM-02-16  EM Detection Sensor (1)     Sensitivity 16     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  16m km

Strike Group
1x Hawk Recon Craft   Speed: 3555 km/s    Size: 4.5


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Hawk class Recon Craft    225 tons     5 Crew     54.8 BP      TCS 4.5  TH 16  EM 0
3555 km/s     Armour 1-3     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 0.6
Maint Life 8.14 Years     MSP 15    AFR 4%    IFR 0.1%    1YR 0    5YR 6    Max Repair 32 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 0.5 months    Spare Berths 1    

Stevenson Engineering NPE-01-16  Nuclear Pulse Stardrive (1)    Power 16    Fuel Use 392.02%    Signature 16    Exp 20%
Fuel Capacity 5,000 Litres    Range 1.0 billion km   (3 days at full power)

Shepherd-Barrett GC-R2-100  0.1 mm Gauss Cannon (1x3)    Range 20,000km     TS: 3555 km/s     Accuracy Modifier 10%     RM 2    ROF 5        1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Mann-Hicks SCFC-6024  Small Craft Fire-control (1)    Max Range: 48,000 km   TS: 4000 km/s     79 58 38 17 0 0 0 0 0 0

Thorpe Systems ASS-11001  MR-20 class Search Sensor (1)     GPS 640     Range 11.4m km    Resolution 20


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Barham class Fleet Support Vessel    4,500 tons     104 Crew     516.3 BP      TCS 90  TH 105.75  EM 180
1566 km/s    JR 4-50     Armour 2-24     Shields 6-300     Sensors 16/16/0/0     Damage Control Rating 11     PPV 1.5
Maint Life 6.08 Years     MSP 1072    AFR 162%    IFR 2.2%    1YR 50    5YR 745    Max Repair 55 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 9 months    Spare Berths 1    
Magazine 91    Cryogenic Berths 200    

Saab JP-4504  Gravitational Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 4500 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 4
Berry Research Inc NPE-08-70  Nuclear Pulse Stardrive (2)    Power 70.4    Fuel Use 81.73%    Signature 52.8    Exp 11%
Fuel Capacity 550,000 Litres    Range 26.9 billion km   (198 days at full power)
Samsung R&D Inc SH-02-300 class Gamma Shields (3)   Total Fuel Cost  42 Litres per hour  (1,008 per day)

Osborne-Bolton Armaments CIWS-120 (1x6)    Range 1000 km     TS: 12000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit

Borkov ILS-1000  Interceptor Box Launcher (6)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 1000
Riley-Parry MFC-251  MR-01 class Missile Fire-control (1)     Range 2.3m km    Resolution 1
Viper-I class Fast Interceptor (6)  Speed: 17,600 km/s   End: 3.4m    Range: 3.6m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 129/77/38

Vulcan-II class Anti-ship missile (12)  Speed: 16,000 km/s   End: 16.4m    Range: 15.8m km   WH: 6    Size: 3    TH: 74/44/22
Viper-I class Fast Interceptor (49)  Speed: 17,600 km/s   End: 3.4m    Range: 3.6m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 129/77/38

Thorpe Systems ASS-251  MR-01 class Search Sensor (1)     GPS 29     Range 2.3m km    MCR 251k km    Resolution 1
Parsons Electronics TH-02-08  Thermal Imaging System (1)     Sensitivity 08     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  16m km
Barton Inc. EM-02-08  EM Detection Sensor (1)     Sensitivity 08     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  16m km

The Tribal class are primarily meant to be operating within a particular solar system, and even then may need a tender to perform long range missions. They are primarily a tool for short to long range patrol, escort and reconnaissance. They have a modest armament and may engage other frigates or smaller crafts.

The Hawk scout are just armed for self defence, nothing else. It is a typical scout craft.

The Barham tender is a multi-purpose fleet support ship. Its main job is to support smaller ships and in particular Frigates but also Corvettes and other fast attack vessels. It only has a rudimentary self defence system, mainly against missiles.

[Jorgen_CAB]

Here is an example of the destroyer class and its supporting vessels...

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Brisbane class Missile Destroyer    12,250 tons     370 Crew     1721.68 BP      TCS 245  TH 365  EM 360
1489 km/s     Armour 3-47     Shields 12-300     Sensors 16/16/0/0     Damage Control Rating 14     PPV 90.16
Maint Life 2.57 Years     MSP 395    AFR 266%    IFR 3.7%    1YR 84    5YR 1261    Max Repair 96 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 9 months    Flight Crew Berths 6   
Hangar Deck Capacity 250 tons     Magazine 238   

Andrews Aeronautical NPE-08-91  Nuclear Pulse Stardrive (4)    Power 91.2    Fuel Use 54.18%    Signature 91.2    Exp 9%
Fuel Capacity 350,000 Litres    Range 9.5 billion km   (73 days at full power)
Samsung R&D Inc SH-02-300 class Gamma Shields (6)   Total Fuel Cost  84 Litres per hour  (2,016 per day)

Owens Limited LS-04-10  19cm Ultraviolet Spinal Laser (1)    Range 192,000km     TS: 3000 km/s     Power 9-3     RM 3    ROF 15        9 9 9 6 5 4 3 3 3 2
Owens Limited LS-04-10  15cm Ultraviolet Laser (2)    Range 180,000km     TS: 3000 km/s     Power 6-3     RM 3    ROF 10        6 6 6 4 3 3 2 2 2 1
Moran Technology PBFC-3096 Primary Beam Fire-control (1)    Max Range: 192,000 km   TS: 3000 km/s     95 90 84 79 74 69 64 58 53 48

Owens Limited TLS-9020  Quad Pulse Laser Turret (1x4)    Range 30,000km     TS: 9000 km/s     Power 12-3     RM 1    ROF 20        3 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Moran Technology PDFC-9024  Point-defence Fire-control (1)    Max Range: 48,000 km   TS: 9000 km/s     79 58 38 17 0 0 0 0 0 0

Owens Limited TLS-9020  Quad Pulse Laser Turret (1x4)    Range 30,000km     TS: 9000 km/s     Power 12-3     RM 1    ROF 20        3 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Moran Technology PDFC-9024  Point-defence Fire-control (1)    Max Range: 48,000 km   TS: 9000 km/s     79 58 38 17 0 0 0 0 0 0

Bofors Inc. GCPD-12000-X6  Phalanx Defence Turret (1x6)    Range 20,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 2    ROF 5        1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Moran Technology PDFC-12024  Point-defence Fire-control (1)    Max Range: 48,000 km   TS: 12000 km/s     79 58 38 17 0 0 0 0 0 0

Austin-Barnett PB-03  Gas-Cooled Fast Reactor Power-plant (5)     Total Power Output 15.52    Armour 0    Exp 12%

Borkov ILS-10  Interceptor Auto Launcher (4)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 10
Riley-Parry MFC-836  MR-01 class Missile Fire-control (1)     Range 7.7m km    Resolution 1
Viper-I class Fast Interceptor (82)  Speed: 17,600 km/s   End: 3.4m    Range: 3.6m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 129/77/38

Borkov SML-03-30  Small Missile Launcher (2)    Missile Size 3    Rate of Fire 30
Riley-Parry MFC-15  MR-05 class Missile Fire-control (1)     Range 15.5m km    Resolution 5
Vulcan-II class Anti-ship missile (10)  Speed: 16,000 km/s   End: 16.4m    Range: 15.8m km   WH: 6    Size: 3    TH: 74/44/22

Borkov PTL-8008  Primary Torpedo Launcher (7)    Missile Size 8    Rate of Fire 8000
Riley-Parry MFC-206  MR-180 class Missile Fire-control (1)     Range 206.1m km    Resolution 180
Barracuda-II class Long Range Torpedo (7)  Speed: 12,000 km/s   End: 292.5m    Range: 210.6m km   WH: 12    Size: 8    TH: 44/26/13

Borkov PTL-8008  Primary Torpedo Launcher (5)    Missile Size 8    Rate of Fire 8000
Morningstar-I class Short Range Torpedo (5)  Speed: 12,000 km/s   End: 95.7m    Range: 68.9m km   WH: 12    Size: 8    TH: 44/26/13
Borkov PTL-6006  Primary Torpedo Launcher (5)    Missile Size 6    Rate of Fire 6000
Sparrow-II class Fast Torpedo (5)  Speed: 16,000 km/s   End: 36.6m    Range: 35.2m km   WH: 9    Size: 6    TH: 53/32/16
Riley-Parry MFC-72  MR-90 class Missile Fire-control (1)     Range 72.8m km    Resolution 90

Thorpe Systems ASS-11  MR-05 class Search Sensor (1)     GPS 320     Range 11.4m km    Resolution 5
Thorpe Systems ASS-836  MR-01 class Search Sensor (1)     GPS 96     Range 7.7m km    MCR 836k km    Resolution 1
Parsons Electronics TH-02-16  Thermal Imaging System (1)     Sensitivity 16     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  16m km
Barton Inc. EM-02-16  EM Detection Sensor (1)     Sensitivity 16     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  16m km

ECCM-1 (1)         ECM 10

Strike Group
1x Hawk Recon Craft   Speed: 3555 km/s    Size: 4.5


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Perry class Destroyer Leader    15,250 tons     478 Crew     2402.6 BP      TCS 305  TH 456  EM 360
1495 km/s     Armour 3-54     Shields 12-300     Sensors 32/32/0/0     Damage Control Rating 16     PPV 86.26
Maint Life 2.45 Years     MSP 640    AFR 286%    IFR 4%    1YR 147    5YR 2200    Max Repair 192 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 9 months    Flight Crew Berths 21   
Flag Bridge    Hangar Deck Capacity 1000 tons     Magazine 176   

Andrews Aeronautical NPE-08-91  Nuclear Pulse Stardrive (5)    Power 91.2    Fuel Use 54.18%    Signature 91.2    Exp 9%
Fuel Capacity 500,000 Litres    Range 10.9 billion km   (84 days at full power)
Samsung R&D Inc SH-02-300 class Gamma Shields (6)   Total Fuel Cost  84 Litres per hour  (2,016 per day)

Owens Limited LS-04-10  15cm Ultraviolet Laser (2)    Range 180,000km     TS: 3000 km/s     Power 6-3     RM 3    ROF 10        6 6 6 4 3 3 2 2 2 1
Owens Limited LS-04-10  19cm Ultraviolet Spinal Laser (1)    Range 192,000km     TS: 3000 km/s     Power 9-3     RM 3    ROF 15        9 9 9 6 5 4 3 3 3 2
Moran Technology PBFC-3096 Primary Beam Fire-control (1)    Max Range: 192,000 km   TS: 3000 km/s     95 90 84 79 74 69 64 58 53 48

Owens Limited TLS-12005UV  Twin Pulse Laser Turret (2x2)    Range 90,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 6-6     RM 3    ROF 5        3 3 3 2 1 1 1 1 1 0
Moran Technology PDFC-12048  Point-defence Fire-control (1)    Max Range: 96,000 km   TS: 12000 km/s     90 79 69 58 48 38 27 17 6 0

Owens Limited TLS-12005UV  Twin Pulse Laser Turret (2x2)    Range 90,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 6-6     RM 3    ROF 5        3 3 3 2 1 1 1 1 1 0
Moran Technology PDFC-12048  Point-defence Fire-control (1)    Max Range: 96,000 km   TS: 12000 km/s     90 79 69 58 48 38 27 17 6 0

Bofors Inc. GCPD-12000-X6  Phalanx Defence Turret (1x6)    Range 20,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 2    ROF 5        1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Moran Technology PDFC-12024  Point-defence Fire-control (1)    Max Range: 48,000 km   TS: 12000 km/s     79 58 38 17 0 0 0 0 0 0

Austin-Barnett PB-03  Gas-Cooled Fast Reactor Power-plant (11)     Total Power Output 34.15    Armour 0    Exp 12%

Borkov ILS-10  Interceptor Auto Launcher (4)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 10
Riley-Parry MFC-836  MR-01 class Missile Fire-control (1)     Range 7.7m km    Resolution 1
Viper-I class Fast Interceptor (82)  Speed: 17,600 km/s   End: 3.4m    Range: 3.6m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 129/77/38

Borkov SML-03-30  Small Missile Launcher (2)    Missile Size 3    Rate of Fire 30
Riley-Parry MFC-15  MR-05 class Missile Fire-control (1)     Range 15.5m km    Resolution 5

Vulcan-II class Anti-ship missile (10)  Speed: 16,000 km/s   End: 16.4m    Range: 15.8m km   WH: 6    Size: 3    TH: 74/44/22

Borkov PTL-8008  Primary Torpedo Launcher (8)    Missile Size 8    Rate of Fire 8000
Riley-Parry MFC-206  MR-180 class Missile Fire-control (1)     Range 206.1m km    Resolution 180
Barracuda-II class Long Range Torpedo (8)  Speed: 12,000 km/s   End: 292.5m    Range: 210.6m km   WH: 12    Size: 8    TH: 44/26/13

Thorpe Systems ASS-34  MR-05 class Search Sensor (1)     GPS 960     Range 34.3m km    Resolution 5
Thorpe Systems ASS-836  MR-01 class Search Sensor (1)     GPS 96     Range 7.7m km    MCR 836k km    Resolution 1
Parsons Electronics TH-04-32  Thermal Imaging System (1)     Sensitivity 32     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  32m km
Barton Inc. EM-04-32  EM Detection Sensor (1)     Sensitivity 32     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  32m km

ECCM-1 (1)         ECM 10

Strike Group
2x Lynx Early Warning Craft   Speed: 3200 km/s    Size: 10


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Lynx class Early Warning Craft    500 tons     10 Crew     115.2 BP      TCS 10  TH 32  EM 0
3200 km/s     Armour 1-5     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/16/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 0.6
Maint Life 1.92 Years     MSP 14    AFR 20%    IFR 0.3%    1YR 5    5YR 74    Max Repair 64 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 0.5 months    Spare Berths 2   

Stevenson Engineering NPE-01-16  Nuclear Pulse Stardrive (2)    Power 16    Fuel Use 392.02%    Signature 16    Exp 20%
Fuel Capacity 10,000 Litres    Range 0.9 billion km   (3 days at full power)

Shepherd-Barrett GC-R2-100  0.1 mm Gauss Cannon (1x3)    Range 20,000km     TS: 3200 km/s     Accuracy Modifier 10%     RM 2    ROF 5        1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Mann-Hicks SCFC-6024  Small Craft Fire-control (1)    Max Range: 48,000 km   TS: 4000 km/s     79 58 38 17 0 0 0 0 0 0

Thorpe Systems ASS-11  MR-05 class Search Sensor (1)     GPS 320     Range 11.4m km    Resolution 5
Barton Inc. EM-02-16  EM Detection Sensor (1)     Sensitivity 16     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  16m km


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Olliver class Fleet Support Vessel    16,250 tons     381 Crew     1953.5 BP      TCS 325  TH 456  EM 360
1403 km/s    JR 4-50     Armour 2-57     Shields 12-300     Sensors 8/8/0/0     Damage Control Rating 22     PPV 3.75
Maint Life 5.57 Years     MSP 4902    AFR 176%    IFR 2.4%    1YR 266    5YR 3988    Max Repair 551 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 9 months    Flight Crew Berths 27   
Hangar Deck Capacity 1000 tons     Magazine 678   

Saab JP-16254  Gravitational Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 16250 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 4
Andrews Aeronautical NPE-08-91  Nuclear Pulse Stardrive (5)    Power 91.2    Fuel Use 54.18%    Signature 91.2    Exp 9%
Fuel Capacity 1,250,000 Litres    Range 25.6 billion km   (210 days at full power)
Samsung R&D Inc SH-02-300 class Gamma Shields (6)   Total Fuel Cost  84 Litres per hour  (2,016 per day)

Osborne-Bolton Armaments CIWS-120 (2x6)    Range 1000 km     TS: 12000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit

Borkov ILS-1000  Interceptor Box Launcher (6)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 1000
Riley-Parry MFC-251  MR-01 class Missile Fire-control (1)     Range 2.3m km    Resolution 1
Viper-I class Fast Interceptor (6)  Speed: 17,600 km/s   End: 3.4m    Range: 3.6m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 129/77/38

Borkov SML-3003  Small Missile Box Launcher (3)    Missile Size 3    Rate of Fire 3000
Riley-Parry MFC-10  MR-05 class Missile Fire-control (1)     Range 10.3m km    Resolution 5
Vulcan-II class Anti-ship missile (3)  Speed: 16,000 km/s   End: 16.4m    Range: 15.8m km   WH: 6    Size: 3    TH: 74/44/22


Vulcan-II class Anti-ship missile (57)  Speed: 16,000 km/s   End: 16.4m    Range: 15.8m km   WH: 6    Size: 3    TH: 74/44/22
Viper-I class Fast Interceptor (212)  Speed: 17,600 km/s   End: 3.4m    Range: 3.6m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 129/77/38
Barracuda-II class Long Range Torpedo (20)  Speed: 12,000 km/s   End: 292.5m    Range: 210.6m km   WH: 12    Size: 8    TH: 44/26/13
Morningstar-I class Short Range Torpedo (15)  Speed: 12,000 km/s   End: 95.7m    Range: 68.9m km   WH: 12    Size: 8    TH: 44/26/13

Thorpe Systems ASS-251  MR-01 class Search Sensor (1)     GPS 29     Range 2.3m km    MCR 251k km    Resolution 1
Thorpe Systems ASS-11  MR-05 class Search Sensor (1)     GPS 320     Range 11.4m km    Resolution 5
Parsons Electronics TH-01-08  Thermal Imaging System (1)     Sensitivity 8     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  8m km
Barton Inc. EM-01-08  EM Detection Sensor (1)     Sensitivity 8     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  8m km

ECCM-1 (1)         ECM 10

Strike Group
1x Aiden Rescue Shuttle   Speed: 2666 km/s    Size: 6
1x Star Fast Tanker   Speed: 4000 km/s    Size: 4
1x Thor Fast Replenishment Ship   Speed: 3200 km/s    Size: 10


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Aiden class Rescue Shuttle    300 tons     2 Crew     39 BP      TCS 6  TH 16  EM 0
2666 km/s     Armour 1-3     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 0
Maint Life 6.57 Years     MSP 8    AFR 7%    IFR 0.1%    1YR 0    5YR 5    Max Repair 8 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 0.5 months    Spare Berths 4   
Cryogenic Berths 800   

Stevenson Engineering NPE-01-16  Nuclear Pulse Stardrive (1)    Power 16    Fuel Use 392.02%    Signature 16    Exp 20%
Fuel Capacity 15,000 Litres    Range 2.3 billion km   (9 days at full power)


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Star class Fast Tanker    200 tons     2 Crew     39.2 BP      TCS 4  TH 16  EM 0
4000 km/s     Armour 1-3     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 0
Maint Life 14.29 Years     MSP 12    AFR 3%    IFR 0%    1YR 0    5YR 2    Max Repair 8 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 0.5 months    Spare Berths 4   

Stevenson Engineering NPE-01-16  Nuclear Pulse Stardrive (1)    Power 16    Fuel Use 392.02%    Signature 16    Exp 20%
Fuel Capacity 120,000 Litres    Range 27.5 billion km   (79 days at full power)


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Thor class Fast Replenishment Ship    500 tons     5 Crew     66.2 BP      TCS 10  TH 32  EM 0
3200 km/s     Armour 1-5     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 0.6
Maint Life 3.35 Years     MSP 8    AFR 20%    IFR 0.3%    1YR 1    5YR 16    Max Repair 8 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 0.5 months    Spare Berths 1   
Magazine 102   

Stevenson Engineering NPE-01-16  Nuclear Pulse Stardrive (2)    Power 16    Fuel Use 392.02%    Signature 16    Exp 20%
Fuel Capacity 15,000 Litres    Range 1.4 billion km   (4 days at full power)

Shepherd-Barrett GC-R2-100  0.1 mm Gauss Cannon (1x3)    Range 20,000km     TS: 3200 km/s     Accuracy Modifier 10%     RM 2    ROF 5        1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Mann-Hicks SCFC-6024  Small Craft Fire-control (1)    Max Range: 48,000 km   TS: 4000 km/s     79 58 38 17 0 0 0 0 0 0


[Prince of Space]

A few things I noticed:

The Ballista can detect a size 100 target at half a billion km, but its fire control can only target once it closes to ~380 million km. Assuming that the Ballista is targeting a ship of similar speed in a head on approach, that's roughly 4 hours of the crew with their fingers poised over the button, waiting to open fire. You might want to consider scaling down the sensor's size a smidge. Also, with only one fire control it only takes one lucky hit to neutralize the Ballista. Furthermore, with five missile launchers firing every two minutes, that's a slow trickle of missiles from a given Ballista. Maybe more launchers at the expense of fewer magazines would be a worthwhile trade-off.

The Hound can detect size 150 targets at 47 million km, but the fire control can target size 10 targets at 14.6 million km. Taking into account the undersized target penalty, that means the Hound's sensor will pick up size 10 targets at roughly 208 thousand km, if my math is correct. That's a huge mismatch.

The Guardian can detect size 1 (or larger) targets at 2.6 million km, making it better suited to sensing size 10 targets than the Hound's sensor. However, the Guardian's fire control reaches out to 3.1 million km, which is longer than the associated sensor. An overengineered fire control is fine for proof against ECM, but why build it into the anti-missile system and not the anti-ship system? Ship ECM seems more likely than missile ECM in my estimation.

The Magna Carta has AMMs on board, but no fire controls that are suited to fire them. In fact its Swiss Army knife approach to missile loadout doesn't really appeal to me, but if there's something to it that I'm not appreciating then I'd love to hear it. Also the speed doesn't match the destroyers. Is that so it can leave the destroyers in the dust if they all retreat?

All four ships have different ranges, which is odd if they are intended to work together as a group. It's not a big deal, but I'm persnickety about that kind of stuff in my own designs and it stood out to me.

Anyway, I don't mean to be too critical. If I missed the boat on your design choices then I'd appreciate the correction.

[NihilRex (OP)]

There is a lot of "group design" thinking in the group, as well as planning for the future.

The Ballista is protected by the rest of the group, and a very long range combatant, so it mounts the Overwatch sensors to let you locate targets far out, so the DesRon commander can decide how to respond.

The Hound is intended mostly for close range defense, and had space for the Std sensor package, so that is what it got.  A CM sensor would have been to short ranged, and space for a Panoptic or Overwatch was not available.

The Guardian has a longer ranged missile FC than it needs, in case of hoped-for  increases in MCR detection and better CMs, when newer designs join the squadrons.

The Magna Carta had some spare magazine space, so it has some reloads for the rest of the fleet.  It is faster than the others because it needed 3 engines to not slow the rest of the DesRon.  I had 14 labs, I had to pick and choose research carefully, and designing a special DL engine would have taken far too long.

Basically, the Ballistas are the Very Long Range combatants, Magna Carta the Long Range, Hounds are Medium, and Guardians are PD.  All of them, except the Hound, have overbuilt FCs, so that when I can make better missiles and torpedoes, there wont be a need for a refit to utilize them.

Better sprint missiles means higher agility and eventually sensors onboard, not longer range.

-----

The intention is that the Hounds and Guardians will be long service, with only minor upgrades.  Ballistae will be relegated to support duties once I can afford cruisers and newer DDGs with higher tech launchers and missiles.  Magna Carta will be refitted as soon as possible into a true DDG-style design once tech allows, or possibly moving to a box launchered jump\collier if major advances take too long in coming.

[NihilRex (OP)]

Also forgot to mention - The Magna Carta was supposed to have a Panoptic system, but it got cut when it failed to fit once the JD was researched.  2000tons is a huge system, and there have been plenty of times I have missed it, particularly against a certain spoiler.

Panoptic Search System m1 (1)     GPS 6400     Range 161.9m km    Resolution 10

[Jorgen_CAB]

Also forgot to mention - The Magna Carta was supposed to have a Panoptic system, but it got cut when it failed to fit once the JD was researched.  2000tons is a huge system, and there have been plenty of times I have missed it, particularly against a certain spoiler.

Panoptic Search System m1 (1)     GPS 6400     Range 161.9m km    Resolution 10

With a size four (technology 8 ) passive EM detection sensor you will detect this ship at a distance of 200mkm. A dedicated sensor ship will detect it at billions of kilometres, not to mention ground based listening stations that will pick it up from more or less any ware in a solar system.

In general I view it as a waste of time to develop such systems since they only draw the attention too whomever are using it. Any ship small enough to be detected can generally either outrun the ship using it or other smaller ships can slip in under the resolution and engage with missiles anyway. The ship using the expensive sensor will also be target number one. I no longer put anything with a bigger resolution of 5 on any capital ships any more since the power output that will be detected by other higher resolutions is so high. Larger resolutions are only fitted to smaller and fast scout ships that can avoid enemy capital ships and who can rarely be engaged before I have had time to launch my missiles, probably even from a safe distance without even being detected. Not to mention the very expensive research I need to dedicate for such huge projects.

In a setting such as mine investing such resources into a huge active scanner locked into a specific resolution is a waste of resources since the only thing someone else need is to have bombers of many different sizes, and strangely enough that is what usually happens in my campaigns. Bombers and FAC usually range from 125-1000t... smaller ships generally deploy their payload closer and larger at bigger distances. It becomes too research heavy to build large sensors to catch them all, that is why passive sensors are much more important to me.

I would rather build a huge thermal sensor to detect the above ships you mentioned earlier, which also might let your main ship be undetected if you are lucky. Throw out a net of surveillance ships around your fleet with huge passive and large EM sensors. It is much easier and cheaper to research a maximum size passive sensor than an active one and in my opinion you get better use of them too. Then build a scout ship with a resolution XX active scanner to paint that target once they are detected. With this method you can send in your surveillance ship and detect the enemy long before they know you are there and attack them with whatever resources you need to get the job done.

The absolutely most important ships in most of my arsenal are my surveillance ships, usually about 3000-4000t with only passive sensor systems. Usually a size 30 Thermal and a size 10 EM sensor, their engines are often with as much reduced thermal as possible and then they also run slow to avoid being detected by ground or ship based detection systems. Each fleet get as many surveillance ships as I think they will need, depending on how many there are. When cloaking is researched then my surveillance ships are the first to be fitted with one.
In addition to these surveillance ships I also deploy smaller reconnaissance ships that the fleet keep in their hangar bays, these usually range from 500-1000t and also get a decent EM and a very large thermal sensor. These are generally the advanced picket of any task-force, or they can be sent of to search remote places as needed. The smaller 500t get stationed in more regular ships such as destroyer leaders while the larger are stationed in utility carriers. These utility carriers are mainly the same size as destroyers and can operate with such task forces.

[Prince of Space]

So the Hound has the Std Sensor Package because it had room available for it, which is reasonable, I suppose. But why does this squadron even need the Std Sensor? It has a larger resolution and a shorter range than the Overwatch, and since the Overwatch is mounted on the 5-ASM-per-2-minutes Ballista, I would hope that you've got multiple Ballistas and thus multiple Overwatches available to a given squadron anyway. This itself may be an inefficient use of space, but maybe you like the redundancy.

The Magna Carta's spare missile capacity seems too low to count on. Of all four destroyers it has the smallest magazine capacity, meaning you won't even get a full reload on one ship from it.

If the Hounds and Guardians are intended to operate for a long time without refits, you might find them falling behind in terms of speed once you get new engine tech, which would undermine the group design tactic, as I understand it.

[NihilRex (OP)]

So the Hound has the Std Sensor Package because it had room available for it, which is reasonable, I suppose. But why does this squadron even need the Std Sensor? It has a larger resolution and a shorter range than the Overwatch, and since the Overwatch is mounted on the 5-ASM-per-2-minutes Ballista, I would hope that you've got multiple Ballistas and thus multiple Overwatches available to a given squadron anyway. This itself may be an inefficient use of space, but maybe you like the redundancy.

The Magna Carta's spare missile capacity seems too low to count on. Of all four destroyers it has the smallest magazine capacity, meaning you won't even get a full reload on one ship from it.

If the Hounds and Guardians are intended to operate for a long time without refits, you might find them falling behind in terms of speed once you get new engine tech, which would undermine the group design tactic, as I understand it.

I agree on the speed thing.  Doctrine at that point called for 2 of everything except the DL, making a single Squadron Jump possible for each DG.  Im out of town without synching my database, so Im working on a different doctrine now.

Honestly, the reloads on the Magna Carta were more of a "fill leftover space with something other than MSP and engineering to get a nice round number," and it never hurts to have extra missiles.

The IDEAL would be a DL with PD guns, 2 DDGs with Torps and Capital Missiles, and 2 DEs for PD and sprint missiles.  That takes much better tech than I had when I designed these.  Overlapping sensors, with Overwatch at 100res and 2-3 light seconds, Panoptic at 10res and ~half overwatch, and then CM sensors that have an MCR of 1mil km would be lovely too.