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Posted by: Steve Walmsley
« on: July 31, 2023, 02:05:11 AM »

I was really enjoying this, does the carrier QOL update mean this story is over?

Yes, this AAR is done now. I've recently started another test campaign for the more recent changes and I'll publish updates from that at some point.
Posted by: HighAdmiral
« on: July 30, 2023, 06:03:17 PM »

I was really enjoying this, does the carrier QOL update mean this story is over?
Posted by: nuclearslurpee
« on: July 04, 2022, 10:39:55 AM »

If I didn't have heavily-armed motherships and mostly 100% crews, that battle might have gone very differently. I don't think it is necessarily a terrible tactic when confronted by a large enemy force - it just turned out to be terrible in that situation. I think the underlying issues may be that the AI places too much weight on speed when assessing the threat level of its opponents, which is exaggerated when facing fighters, plus it doesn't decrease threat assessment in the immediate aftermath of a transit. On that basis, it  took the option to 'retreat' through the jump point. I'll make some adjustments in that area.

I certainly think it cold be a tactic with merits. Granted, as a human player I would probably not make a blind jump without better intelligence of some sort, but given some idea what to expect it is potentially a good way to make an ambush happen or raid the enemy to flip the tables.

One thing that does sometimes confuse me with the AI though is the definition of "retreat" is often in the opposite direction from their base or colony. Seems a bit odd although in this case I suppose the Stave had another up-to-15 heavy cruisers to defend their home world, so it would work out if they weren't just plain overmatched.

In any case always glad to see AI improvements, 2.0 is shaping up to be one of the best updates yet for single-player campaigns!
Posted by: Steve Walmsley
« on: July 04, 2022, 04:13:58 AM »

No comments yet? Wow, some people don't know how to have fun...

Introductory paragraph highlights one of the big downsides of carrier fleets. While fighter swarms can be powerful and, as shown, tactically more efficient than missiles, and of course strategically very sound, the ability to press an offensive against a tough defense is very limited without... cooperation from the opponent. Of course, you've got a shockingly "cooperative" NPR, as we read, and also battlestars with integral armament which can execute a WP assault reasonably well on their own, at least long enough to launch the fighters.

Quote
In November, the Twelve Colonies launched the first Odysseus class Survey Cruiser, a new ship type intended for long-duration survey missions. [...] Production of the Odysseus class would gradually free up the four survey-configured Valkyrie II class Battlestars for combat assignments.

I'm curious Steve - is this move being done largely because of the need for Valkyries on the front lines, or because you've found survey parasites to be more trouble than they're worth? I recently tried using survey parasites in a campaign which I abandoned fairly quickly, mostly because survey operations were a pain in the butt as there's no way to automate the process of recalling parasites, moving to a new system, and issuing the exact same standing orders another half-dozen times.

The rather shocking Stave counter-attack proved quite ill-conceived. Is this a NPR behavior likely to be corrected before 2.0 release, or more or less WAI? Seems rather suicidal, as long as the attacking race leaves a reserve behind, but could also be considered a high risk/reward move as there is the chance to ambush the logistics train of an assaulting fleet. Didn't work in this case, but I would also note that the Stave are strategically outclassed anyways as they have severe technological and economic deficits by now.

I didn't actually know NPRs knew how to use terraformers, so that was a learning experience for me!

Quote
Once within a few million kilometres, Colonial active sensors detected a ground forces signature of 458,900 tons, indicating somewhere between two and three million tons of fortified ground forces. A huge program of increasing Colonial ground forces would be required before any assault could be launched.

Hurry up, I wanna see the first-ever Steve attacking an alien homeworld in an AAR. Not only because I expect it will lead to a lot of ideas to improve ground combat, no, I have interest in the ground attack for its own sake too...  ;)

A bit surprised to see the Stave shipyards destroyed. I suppose it makes sense here, since the Colonial Union doesn't need a lot of shipyards to build Battlestars at the rate their economy allows, but still it is a lot of yards to let go to waste (I can't remember if the conversion factor is 20x or 50x, but that 78,000 ton signature is either 1,560,000 or 3,900,000 tons of slipway space, right?).

Quote
Across known space, one jump beyond the survey base in Electra, the survey cruiser Odysseus transited a jump point in the Odessos system and discovered Hydra, a red dwarf system with a single Venusian world. On the far side of Hydra from the entry jump point was a strange, never-before-encountered, phenomenon; a swirling, dark purple vortex with a diameter of ten million kilometres. It appeared be a rift that penetrated both normal space and the Aether. As soon as news of the discovery arrived at Earth, a tug was dispatched with an Outpost sensor station that would monitor the rift.
Quote
On July 8th 2316, one month after the discovery of the mysterious rift in the Hydra system, a similar rift was discovered in Sphinx, four transits from the Sparta colony via Orpheus, Rho Leporis and Delphi.

Things are about to get really exciting around here...  ;D

A great update, Steve. Overall a lot of excitement and action, but we've reached the point in the game where the action is all along major threads instead of the disjointed chaos of early game. The galaxy is taking shape quite nicely and I anticipate some interesting strategic challenges ahead for the Twelve Colonies.

The survey cruisers are to free up the Valkyries from long-ranged exploration. I'm actually still building some survey parasites, but they are being based at colonies now instead of Battlestars. The Raptors are shorter-ranged so they are 'filling in' rather than going further into deep space.

The destruction of the shipyards was so I could get away with stationing a relatively small force to monitor the Stave until I could assemble a real invasion force. Even if I left them intact, it would be many years before I could launch an assault that would capture them.

I've covered the 'counter-attack in the post above.
Posted by: Steve Walmsley
« on: July 04, 2022, 04:05:59 AM »

The rather shocking Stave counter-attack proved quite ill-conceived. Is this a NPR behavior likely to be corrected before 2.0 release, or more or less WAI? Seems rather suicidal, as long as the attacking race leaves a reserve behind, but could also be considered a high risk/reward move as there is the chance to ambush the logistics train of an assaulting fleet. Didn't work in this case, but I would also note that the Stave are strategically outclassed anyways as they have severe technological and economic deficits by now.
I'd wager the AI was attempting to retreat rather than counter-attack, having decided the attacking fighter force was too much to handle. I'm not sure how such behavior could be corrected (if indeed it's actually "wrong" - despite the outcome in this case being objectively wrong from the AI's perspective!) without causing other problems - AI's pressing hopeless attacks rather than strategically retreating, as one example.

If I didn't have heavily-armed motherships and mostly 100% crews, that battle might have gone very differently. I don't think it is necessarily a terrible tactic when confronted by a large enemy force - it just turned out to be terrible in that situation. I think the underlying issues may be that the AI places too much weight on speed when assessing the threat level of its opponents, which is exaggerated when facing fighters, plus it doesn't decrease threat assessment in the immediate aftermath of a transit. On that basis, it  took the option to 'retreat' through the jump point. I'll make some adjustments in that area.
Posted by: Ragnarsson
« on: July 04, 2022, 02:58:06 AM »

The rather shocking Stave counter-attack proved quite ill-conceived. Is this a NPR behavior likely to be corrected before 2.0 release, or more or less WAI? Seems rather suicidal, as long as the attacking race leaves a reserve behind, but could also be considered a high risk/reward move as there is the chance to ambush the logistics train of an assaulting fleet. Didn't work in this case, but I would also note that the Stave are strategically outclassed anyways as they have severe technological and economic deficits by now.
I'd wager the AI was attempting to retreat rather than counter-attack, having decided the attacking fighter force was too much to handle. I'm not sure how such behavior could be corrected (if indeed it's actually "wrong" - despite the outcome in this case being objectively wrong from the AI's perspective!) without causing other problems - AI's pressing hopeless attacks rather than strategically retreating, as one example.
Posted by: nuclearslurpee
« on: July 04, 2022, 12:14:24 AM »

No comments yet? Wow, some people don't know how to have fun...

Introductory paragraph highlights one of the big downsides of carrier fleets. While fighter swarms can be powerful and, as shown, tactically more efficient than missiles, and of course strategically very sound, the ability to press an offensive against a tough defense is very limited without... cooperation from the opponent. Of course, you've got a shockingly "cooperative" NPR, as we read, and also battlestars with integral armament which can execute a WP assault reasonably well on their own, at least long enough to launch the fighters.

Quote
In November, the Twelve Colonies launched the first Odysseus class Survey Cruiser, a new ship type intended for long-duration survey missions. [...] Production of the Odysseus class would gradually free up the four survey-configured Valkyrie II class Battlestars for combat assignments.

I'm curious Steve - is this move being done largely because of the need for Valkyries on the front lines, or because you've found survey parasites to be more trouble than they're worth? I recently tried using survey parasites in a campaign which I abandoned fairly quickly, mostly because survey operations were a pain in the butt as there's no way to automate the process of recalling parasites, moving to a new system, and issuing the exact same standing orders another half-dozen times.

The rather shocking Stave counter-attack proved quite ill-conceived. Is this a NPR behavior likely to be corrected before 2.0 release, or more or less WAI? Seems rather suicidal, as long as the attacking race leaves a reserve behind, but could also be considered a high risk/reward move as there is the chance to ambush the logistics train of an assaulting fleet. Didn't work in this case, but I would also note that the Stave are strategically outclassed anyways as they have severe technological and economic deficits by now.

I didn't actually know NPRs knew how to use terraformers, so that was a learning experience for me!

Quote
Once within a few million kilometres, Colonial active sensors detected a ground forces signature of 458,900 tons, indicating somewhere between two and three million tons of fortified ground forces. A huge program of increasing Colonial ground forces would be required before any assault could be launched.

Hurry up, I wanna see the first-ever Steve attacking an alien homeworld in an AAR. Not only because I expect it will lead to a lot of ideas to improve ground combat, no, I have interest in the ground attack for its own sake too...  ;)

A bit surprised to see the Stave shipyards destroyed. I suppose it makes sense here, since the Colonial Union doesn't need a lot of shipyards to build Battlestars at the rate their economy allows, but still it is a lot of yards to let go to waste (I can't remember if the conversion factor is 20x or 50x, but that 78,000 ton signature is either 1,560,000 or 3,900,000 tons of slipway space, right?).

Quote
Across known space, one jump beyond the survey base in Electra, the survey cruiser Odysseus transited a jump point in the Odessos system and discovered Hydra, a red dwarf system with a single Venusian world. On the far side of Hydra from the entry jump point was a strange, never-before-encountered, phenomenon; a swirling, dark purple vortex with a diameter of ten million kilometres. It appeared be a rift that penetrated both normal space and the Aether. As soon as news of the discovery arrived at Earth, a tug was dispatched with an Outpost sensor station that would monitor the rift.
Quote
On July 8th 2316, one month after the discovery of the mysterious rift in the Hydra system, a similar rift was discovered in Sphinx, four transits from the Sparta colony via Orpheus, Rho Leporis and Delphi.

Things are about to get really exciting around here...  ;D

A great update, Steve. Overall a lot of excitement and action, but we've reached the point in the game where the action is all along major threads instead of the disjointed chaos of early game. The galaxy is taking shape quite nicely and I anticipate some interesting strategic challenges ahead for the Twelve Colonies.



Posted by: nakorkren
« on: May 23, 2022, 11:04:57 PM »

I started a new thread to address the fighter training fuel cost discussion, so we can continue that conversation without taking the Twelve Colonies Comments thread on too big a tangent.

Looking forward to the next story update!
Posted by: ZimRathbone
« on: May 23, 2022, 06:47:11 PM »

Make a training command, put fighters inside a carrier, move carrier under the training command with a tanker set to refuel own fleet.

also add a Supply ship set to Resupply own fleet (handles the maint failures assuming that all ships have at least enough MSP to repair the largest component on each ship).  I usually set this up for all my major fleets, and have these as a separate sub-fleet (along with an ammo collier) that can be detached before advancing into combat.  You do have to reset the Supply ship status periodically (at least after every save) as for some reason the status keeps reverting to No Resupply.
Posted by: Garfunkel
« on: May 23, 2022, 06:30:32 PM »

Make a training command, put fighters inside a carrier, move carrier under the training command with a tanker set to refuel own fleet.
Posted by: nuclearslurpee
« on: May 23, 2022, 10:38:54 AM »

Would adding a big tanker to the fleet, set to "refuel own fleet" help with this?

Possibly. I'm not sure (1) how the order would interact with the training mission, and (2) if it would be fast enough. You also still have the problem of maintenance failures blowing up fighters if they're not in a hangar.
Posted by: skoormit
« on: May 23, 2022, 06:13:09 AM »

EDIT: right after I posted this, I realized that you may be training the fighters while they're docked in the carrier. If that's the case, please confirm.

I can confirm that this doesn't really help. The fighters simply drain fuel from the carrier in this case, so you will not run out of fuel as quickly but still often enough that it is very annoying to try and train them.

Would adding a big tanker to the fleet, set to "refuel own fleet" help with this?
Posted by: Steve Walmsley
« on: May 23, 2022, 04:21:35 AM »

They have been active long enough for the background fleet training to take effect.
Posted by: nuclearslurpee
« on: May 22, 2022, 06:00:23 PM »

EDIT: right after I posted this, I realized that you may be training the fighters while they're docked in the carrier. If that's the case, please confirm.

I can confirm that this doesn't really help. The fighters simply drain fuel from the carrier in this case, so you will not run out of fuel as quickly but still often enough that it is very annoying to try and train them.
Posted by: nakorkren
« on: May 22, 2022, 04:45:27 PM »

Steve (or others with fighter experience), you commented in the update thread that one group of fighters were highly trained and experienced almost no delay in targeting/retargeting. How did they achieve that high training? Did you actively train them, or did they accumulate it through time and combat experience?

I'm accumulating fighters while my carriers are out working (fighting) and I tried training the fighters. They ran out of fuel almost immediately, even when I tried the somewhat hokey trick of putting a slower ship in the fleet. I could add a tanker, but they'd still be burning through fuel at an insane rate.

EDIT: right after I posted this, I realized that you may be training the fighters while they're docked in the carrier. If that's the case, please confirm.