First serious attepts to build a fleet

[misanthropope]

how big was their fleet compared to what you can build?  do they seem to have comparable advantage over you in other tech fields as in engines? do you have any sense of their economic capacity?

with three distinct points of contact, i feel like both attrition in detail and major tempo loss await the side that cedes the initiative.  your FAC look like they could successfully take the battle to the enemy, i don't know how fast you can get carriers churned out for them, but i'd at least consider hitting the enemy with a big mob of those things ASAP.  possibly (stealthed?) box launcher destroyers might be available in a similar time frame; that could be a valid attrition approach if you've got the missile production to support it.

admittedly, VB6 bot players were pretty slow to exploit an advantage, but idk how you feel about planning around the hope that persists.

riffing on one of the design points carnagus brought up, your relatively shallow magazines are supporting large, high-rof launchers.  either playing to the dps by increasing your magazine volume, or (doing the usual thing, boo) packing in more smaller launchers would do you some good, on kirov and gnevny.

[d.rodin (OP)]

There's a huge disparity between your missile ranges and your fire control ranges.  Your missiles barely reach 17mkm while your fire controls see out to almost 300mkm.  Unless your enemy can cruise around at 70kkm/s I would decrease the "to hit chances" of your ASMs, and put the freed up space into more fuel, or alternatively if your doctrine is " small range big bang" into more warhead.  (the missiles the Gnevny uses are probably fine as they are if they are used against fighters, and those tend to be quite fast)

Your AMMs are fine, they are sort of "future proof" for when you decide to increase your AMM envelope to 10 mkm.

I would also put more fire controls on your missile ships.  Even though your ships are quite well armoured, a single unlucky penetrating hit could essentially neuter your offensive capabilities.  An other reason is to reduce the chances of overkill even if you fire missiles without sensors by dividing your firepower between several hostile ships (if you RP that your missiles have to have sensors then it's fine to have sensors, but fire control redundancy is still quite essential imho)

The Ognevoy and Gnevny does not have enough MSP to repair battle damage to the most expensive component (battle damage is max MSPx2 iirc)

I tend to design my ships (the exception being carriers) with half of the range you did, which frees up more space for weapons and such
Also your ASM Ships can only fire 3 salvos before they are out of missiles, which can be a problem.
But these two are more nitpicking than actual design flaws

These are the things I would personally change on these designs otherwise I think they are quite nice.

Enemy ships have observed ECM strenght 80, i don't know for sure will it increase or no, thats why all MFC's are way more range capable than missles (i still don't know what this "ECM" means in practice). And since they are 1HS - i don't thing that this is  big problem for 20kt ship. But make them 25tonns and install 2 - is interesting idea : for now 1 enemy "Titan" class require full salvo of 2 Kirov's, maybe with 2 MFC's 1,5 Kirov's will be enough. Anyway for next ~2 years i can't do anything : Kirov's tied to protecting core worlds and i will not refit them until i will have spare 20 Kirov's to be able to rotate them.

MSP's of Ognevoy and Gnevny - thx i will do something about that.

Now all my anti-ship missles already done with sensors:
With future missles techs priority will be strictly warhead (Enemy "Eclipse" class : 25k speed , 262 150 tonns , 168 x 3 dmg lasers , 4 x 289 dmg lasers). For now only 1 observed and destroyed. (this one rolled over my 5 Kirovs that run out of missles)

Missile Size: 6.00 MSP  (15.000 Tons)     Warhead: 16    Radiation Damage: 16    Manoeuvre Rating: 70
Speed: 105 000 km/s     Fuel: 750     Flight Time: 3 minutes     Range: 16.74m km
Active Sensor Strength: 1.2   EM Sensitivity Modifier: 40
Resolution: 100    Maximum Range vs 5000 ton object (or larger): 18 143 114 km
ECM Modifier: 70%     ECCM Modifier: 70%
Cost Per Missile: 35.87     Development Cost: 3 587
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 7350%   3k km/s 2450%   5k km/s 1470%   10k km/s 735.0%

Missile Size: 4.00 MSP  (10.000 Tons)     Warhead: 6    Radiation Damage: 6    Manoeuvre Rating: 68
Speed: 105 000 km/s     Fuel: 375     Flight Time: 97.6 seconds     Range: 10 248 000 km
Active Sensor Strength: 1.2   EM Sensitivity Modifier: 40
Resolution: 10    Maximum Range vs 500 ton object (or larger): 8 421 288 km
ECM Modifier: 70%     ECCM Modifier: 70%
Cost Per Missile: 25.52     Development Cost: 2 552
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 7140%   3k km/s 2380%   5k km/s 1428%   10k km/s 714.0%

About deployment and range: when i will have 2 full fleet's (i need ability to rotate them) i think i will reduce deplotment time to 6 months. Range : only if will create Military tankers that could operate with fleet.

Kirov's are capable only for 3 salvos : yes, this is a huge problem and i managed to provide only this solution for now:

Priboy-MLT G8 class Ammunition Transport      9 973 tons       276 Crew       6 814.9 BP       TCS 10    TH 125    EM 0
15667 km/s      Armour 10-41       Shields 0-0       HTK 71      Sensors 40/40/0/0      DCR 79      PPV 0
Maint Life 6.84 Years     MSP 8 114    AFR 42%    IFR 0.6%    1YR 302    5YR 4 524    Max Repair 2539.0625 MSP
Magazine 864   
Commander    Control Rating 2   BRG   AUX   
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Morale Check Required   

Gas Core AM Drive 125% EP1562.50 (2)    Power 3125.0    Fuel Use 13.81%    Signature 62.500    Explosion 12%
Fuel Capacity 1 000 000 Litres    Range 130.7 billion km (96 days at full power)

Medium ASM G8 (144)    Speed: 105 000 km/s    End: 2.7m     Range: 16.7m km    WH: 16    Size: 6    TH: 2450/1470/735
Ordnance Transfer Rate: 256 MSP per hour     Complete Transfer 3.4 hours

EM Sensor EM1.0-40.0 (5%) (1)     Sensitivity 40     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  50m km
Thermal Sensor TH1.0-40.0 (5%) (1)     Sensitivity 40     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  50m km
Cloaking Device: Class cross-section reduced to 5.00% of normal

ECM 70

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Designed to operate within Kirov's Groups directly : 5 Kirov + 5 Priboy-MLT G8 in group. I will build 20 of them and test in future Kapteys Star offensive, maybe will build more if results will be good.

[d.rodin (OP)]

how big was their fleet compared to what you can build?  do they seem to have comparable advantage over you in other tech fields as in engines? do you have any sense of their economic capacity?

with three distinct points of contact, i feel like both attrition in detail and major tempo loss await the side that cedes the initiative.  your FAC look like they could successfully take the battle to the enemy, i don't know how fast you can get carriers churned out for them, but i'd at least consider hitting the enemy with a big mob of those things ASAP.  possibly (stealthed?) box launcher destroyers might be available in a similar time frame; that could be a valid attrition approach if you've got the missile production to support it.

admittedly, VB6 bot players were pretty slow to exploit an advantage, but idk how you feel about planning around the hope that persists.

riffing on one of the design points carnagus brought up, your relatively shallow magazines are supporting large, high-rof launchers.  either playing to the dps by increasing your magazine volume, or (doing the usual thing, boo) packing in more smaller launchers would do you some good, on kirov and gnevny.

They have confirmed ~200 FAC's and about ~40 10k+ tonns ships. I don't have reliable information about real picture : all FAC's were observed during 1st battle, about 30-40 capital ships were destroyed during Struwe system defence. 1st time when i will go beyond my systems will be in ~1-2 years from now, only after that i could tell something close to reality.
I never observed any colonies, only thing that i encoultered and it is now spaceships are ground troops : Infantry - "Swarm Warrior".

I have some chokepoints near Sol system that i plan to take in future, to increase first warning range and block access to core worlds : FL Virgins and Barnard Star, it will give me at least 8 systems to grab.

I am building FAC's right now and i though about some sort of "Space Submarine" - cloaked long range missle plaform with ~30 size box launchers with 3-4 x my Medium ASM G8 as second stages.
I definitely will go on offensive, but bit later.

PS. is that normal that enemy ships are not leaving wrecks after being destroyed?

[Black]

They have confirmed ~200 FAC's and about ~40 10k+ tonns ships. I don't have reliable information about real picture : all FAC's were observed during 1st battle, about 30-40 capital ships were destroyed during Struwe system defence. 1st time when i will go beyond my systems will be in ~1-2 years from now, only after that i could tell something close to reality.
I never observed any colonies, only thing that i encoultered and it is now spaceships are ground troops : Infantry - "Swarm Warrior".

I have some chokepoints near Sol system that i plan to take in future, to increase first warning range and block access to core worlds : FL Virgins and Barnard Star, it will give me at least 8 systems to grab.

I am building FAC's right now and i though about some sort of "Space Submarine" - cloaked long range missle plaform with ~30 size box launchers with 3-4 x my Medium ASM G8 as second stages.
I definitely will go on offensive, but bit later.

PS. is that normal that enemy ships are not leaving wrecks after being destroyed?

It is normal for this particular alien species, that they leave no wreck. But they are not normal NPR.

[d.rodin (OP)]

Is this Star Swarm ? I am in bigger trouble than i imagined ?

[Carnagus]

ECM: every lvl of ECM decreases fire control range by 10%.   and Every lvl of ECCM will neutralize equal lvl of ECM.   so for example a 30mkm range fire control will only be able to target a ship with lvl1 ECM at 27mkm. 
You have lvl7 ECCM so if you assign it to your fire control it will only degrade by 10% because of their lvl8 ECM, which means your FC has a ~270mkm range against the enemy. 
I usually design fire controls with a10-20% longer range than my missile to counter potential high lvl ECM my ECCM can not neutralize. 

Multiple MFCs are important as a redundancy mostly.   So an armour penetrating hit could knock out your single MFC, and then your ship becomes a useless piece of floating metal.   With multiple MFCs if one gets knocked out, you can switch your weapons to the other working ones, and keep your ship in the fight. 

If enemy ship moves at 25kkm/s you only need about 250-300% chance to hit a 10kkm/s moving target for the missiles.   the rest can be put into warhead or fuel. 

[Black]

Is this Star Swarm ? I am in bigger trouble than i imagined ?

Yes it is. You can check Steve's test campaign inspired by WH40K, he encountered them there. Main problem is that they travel between systems so they can invade your colonies. That is something Precursors will not do.

[d.rodin (OP)]

Is this Star Swarm ? I am in bigger trouble than i imagined ?

Yes it is. You can check Steve's test campaign inspired by WH40K, he encountered them there. Main problem is that they travel between systems so they can invade your colonies. That is something Precursors will not do.

Well i fight of theyr initial push succesfully in the end and after that expanded very rapidly, that why some systems where i don't have fleet received this (2-4 per system):

Ural-FB G8 class Fighter Base      25 000 tons       420 Crew       4 066.6 BP       TCS 500    TH 0    EM 18 960
1 km/s      Armour 10-76       Shields 632-474       HTK 137      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 30      PPV 0
Maint Life 8.25 Years     MSP 7 050    AFR 167%    IFR 2.3%    1YR 184    5YR 2 764    Max Repair 516 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 10 000 tons     Magazine 1 152   
Captain    Control Rating 4   BRG   AUX   ENG   PFC   
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Flight Crew Berths 200    Morale Check Required   

Fuel Capacity 4 000 000 Litres    Range N/A
Sigma S316 / R474 Shields (2)     Recharge Time 474 seconds (1.3 per second)

Medium ASM G8 (192)    Speed: 105 000 km/s    End: 2.7m     Range: 16.7m km    WH: 16    Size: 6    TH: 2450/1470/735

ECM 70

Strike Group
16x Tu-160-M6 G8 Fighter-bomber   Speed: 45059 km/s    Size: 9.99
4x Tu-142-AS-100 G8 Recon Fighter   Speed: 46145 km/s    Size: 9.75

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Tu-160-M6 G8 class Fighter-bomber      500 tons       19 Crew       927.3 BP       TCS 10    TH 18    EM 0
45059 km/s      Armour 1-5       Shields 0-0       HTK 1      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 1      PPV 3.6
Maint Life 23.76 Years     MSP 1 160    AFR 2%    IFR 0.0%    1YR 4    5YR 59    Max Repair 731.25 MSP
Magazine 24   
Lieutenant Commander    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 2 days    Morale Check Required   

Gas Core AM Drive 300% EP450.00 (1)    Power 450    Fuel Use 355.76%    Signature 18.00    Explosion 30%
Fuel Capacity 50 000 Litres    Range 5.1 billion km (31 hours at full power)

Size 6.00 Box Launcher (4)     Missile Size: 6    Hangar Reload 122 minutes    MF Reload 20 hours
Missile Fire Control FC209-R100 (5%) (1)     Range 209.5m km    Resolution 100
Medium ASM G8 (4)    Speed: 105 000 km/s    End: 2.7m     Range: 16.7m km    WH: 16    Size: 6    TH: 2450/1470/735

Active Search Sensor AS104-R100 (5%) (1)     GPS 4000     Range 104.7m km    Resolution 100

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and planetary interaction

[Droll]

ECM: every lvl of ECM decreases fire control range by 10%.   and Every lvl of ECCM will neutralize equal lvl of ECM.   so for example a 30mkm range fire control will only be able to target a ship with lvl1 ECM at 27mkm. 
You have lvl7 ECCM so if you assign it to your fire control it will only degrade by 10% because of their lvl8 ECM, which means your FC has a ~270mkm range against the enemy. 
I usually design fire controls with a10-20% longer range than my missile to counter potential high lvl ECM my ECCM can not neutralize. 

Don't quote me on this but I think this is how VB6 ECM works. In C# I think it directly affects accuracy instead of nerfing FC ranges.

[amram]

June 11, 2017:  http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=8495.msg103096#msg103096

3) ECM is now a fixed 0.25 MSP for missiles. The 'Missile ECM' tech line has been removed and if a missile is equipped with ECM it will have the same ECM capability as the current racial ECM technology, The missile design will maintain that ECM capability and will not be upgraded if the racial tech improves. For each level of ECM, the missile will be 10% harder to hit with energy weapons and will reduce the lock of missile fire controls by 10%. This can be negated by linking a similar level of ECCM to the point defence fire controls.

4) Missiles can be equipped with ECCM, which is a fixed 0.25 MSP. The missile ECCM level will be equal to the current racial ECCM tech. In C# Aurora, the ECCM of missile fire controls will only affect the range at which the fire control can lock on. The ECCM of the missile itself will affect the chance of the missile striking its target, if that target has active ECM.

Missiles and beam firecontrols suffer accuracy loss, missile firecontrols suffer range loss.

[Droll]

June 11, 2017:  http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=8495.msg103096#msg103096

3) ECM is now a fixed 0.25 MSP for missiles. The 'Missile ECM' tech line has been removed and if a missile is equipped with ECM it will have the same ECM capability as the current racial ECM technology, The missile design will maintain that ECM capability and will not be upgraded if the racial tech improves. For each level of ECM, the missile will be 10% harder to hit with energy weapons and will reduce the lock of missile fire controls by 10%. This can be negated by linking a similar level of ECCM to the point defence fire controls.

4) Missiles can be equipped with ECCM, which is a fixed 0.25 MSP. The missile ECCM level will be equal to the current racial ECCM tech. In C# Aurora, the ECCM of missile fire controls will only affect the range at which the fire control can lock on. The ECCM of the missile itself will affect the chance of the missile striking its target, if that target has active ECM.

Missiles and beam firecontrols suffer accuracy loss, missile firecontrols suffer range loss.

Ah thats good to know - so if a missile has ECM 100 and the MFC has no ECCM, then it has a lock-on range of 0?

[SpikeTheHobbitMage]

June 11, 2017:  http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=8495.msg103096#msg103096

3) ECM is now a fixed 0.25 MSP for missiles. The 'Missile ECM' tech line has been removed and if a missile is equipped with ECM it will have the same ECM capability as the current racial ECM technology, The missile design will maintain that ECM capability and will not be upgraded if the racial tech improves. For each level of ECM, the missile will be 10% harder to hit with energy weapons and will reduce the lock of missile fire controls by 10%. This can be negated by linking a similar level of ECCM to the point defence fire controls.

4) Missiles can be equipped with ECCM, which is a fixed 0.25 MSP. The missile ECCM level will be equal to the current racial ECCM tech. In C# Aurora, the ECCM of missile fire controls will only affect the range at which the fire control can lock on. The ECCM of the missile itself will affect the chance of the missile striking its target, if that target has active ECM.

Missiles and beam firecontrols suffer accuracy loss, missile firecontrols suffer range loss.

Ah thats good to know - so if a missile has ECM 100 and the MFC has no ECCM, then it has a lock-on range of 0?

ECM 10, since each rank gives a 10% penalty.  That also means that BFCs without ECCM can't hit it either, and even if your MFC as ECCM your AMMs will also need ECCM unless they have a speed and MR advantage.

[liveware]

how big was their fleet compared to what you can build?  do they seem to have comparable advantage over you in other tech fields as in engines? do you have any sense of their economic capacity?

with three distinct points of contact, i feel like both attrition in detail and major tempo loss await the side that cedes the initiative.  your FAC look like they could successfully take the battle to the enemy, i don't know how fast you can get carriers churned out for them, but i'd at least consider hitting the enemy with a big mob of those things ASAP.  possibly (stealthed?) box launcher destroyers might be available in a similar time frame; that could be a valid attrition approach if you've got the missile production to support it.

admittedly, VB6 bot players were pretty slow to exploit an advantage, but idk how you feel about planning around the hope that persists.

riffing on one of the design points carnagus brought up, your relatively shallow magazines are supporting large, high-rof launchers.  either playing to the dps by increasing your magazine volume, or (doing the usual thing, boo) packing in more smaller launchers would do you some good, on kirov and gnevny.

They have confirmed ~200 FAC's and about ~40 10k+ tonns ships. I don't have reliable information about real picture : all FAC's were observed during 1st battle, about 30-40 capital ships were destroyed during Struwe system defence. 1st time when i will go beyond my systems will be in ~1-2 years from now, only after that i could tell something close to reality.
I never observed any colonies, only thing that i encoultered and it is now spaceships are ground troops : Infantry - "Swarm Warrior".

I have some chokepoints near Sol system that i plan to take in future, to increase first warning range and block access to core worlds : FL Virgins and Barnard Star, it will give me at least 8 systems to grab.

I am building FAC's right now and i though about some sort of "Space Submarine" - cloaked long range missle plaform with ~30 size box launchers with 3-4 x my Medium ASM G8 as second stages.
I definitely will go on offensive, but bit later.

PS. is that normal that enemy ships are not leaving wrecks after being destroyed?

Space submarine. I like it. I'm gonna build one someday...

[d.rodin (OP)]

with rebuild strike fleet and more or less solid homedef force (and to utilize some old generation 8 missles) i finally made visit to the system where i first encountered my enemy.
10x Nakhimov, 20x Kirov, 20x Sevastopol, 20x Ognevoy.
I managed to destroy around ~150 enemy FAC's and around 10 ~10kt ships, losing 3x Sevastopol to FAC's and 1 Nakhimov to boarding.

With introduction of new Auxiliary Carriers, repairs and replenishemt i will return again with ground force, fighter bases for defence and block access to Sol sector systems.

Admiral Ushakov G9 class Auxiliary Carrier      24 994 tons       535 Crew       20 255.2 BP       TCS 500    TH 400    EM 11 850
20005 km/s      Armour 15-76       Shields 395-474       HTK 137      Sensors 125/125/0/0      DCR 100      PPV 0
Maint Life 5.44 Years     MSP 20 513    AFR 123%    IFR 1.7%    1YR 1 162    5YR 17 426    Max Repair 3250 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 3 000 tons     Troop Capacity 4 000 tons     Drop Capable    Cryogenic Berths 400   
Captain    Control Rating 4   BRG   AUX   ENG   PFC   
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Flight Crew Berths 60    Morale Check Required   

Plasma Core AM Drive 125% EP2000.00 (5)    Power 10000    Fuel Use 13.81%    Signature 80.00    Explosion 12%
Fuel Capacity 3 000 000 Litres    Range 156.4 billion km (90 days at full power)
Tau S395 / R474 Shields (1)     Recharge Time 474 seconds (0.8 per second)

EM Sensor EM2.50-125.00 (5%) (1)     Sensitivity 125     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  88.4m km
Thermal Sensor TH2.50-125.00 (5%) (1)     Sensitivity 125     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  88.4m km

ECM 70

Strike Group
2x Udaloy-TC-500 G9 Assault Shuttle   Speed: 57627 km/s    Size: 19.99

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

5 of them total, each carries 2 boarding FAC's and had 1000 spare hangar space. Additionally each can carry 1 droppable Infantry Batallion or Brigade HQ. 5 Aux carriers - 4 Batallions + Brigade HQ.

Udaloy-TC-500 G9 class Assault Shuttle      1 000 tons       32 Crew       1 929.7 BP       TCS 20    TH 46    EM 0
57627 km/s      Armour 3-8       Shields 0-0       HTK 5      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 0
Maint Life 4.87 Years     MSP 844    AFR 11%    IFR 0.2%    1YR 59    5YR 883    Max Repair 1872 MSP
Troop Capacity 500 tons     Boarding Capable   
Lieutenant Commander    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 6 days    Morale Check Required   

Plasma Core AM Drive 300% EP1152.00 (1)    Power 1152    Fuel Use 251.56%    Signature 46.08    Explosion 30%
Fuel Capacity 50 000 Litres    Range 3.6 billion km (17 hours at full power)

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Each can carry 2x 250 tonns Boarding Platoon.

[liveware]

I think you might reconsider your fleet composition.

I have been using a (somewhat slower) carrier with about 5x the capacity of your Ushakov to great success in my recent campaign. Instead of a multitude of fleet ships I have been using fighter craft and have had much success against the enemy.

I am at much lower engine tech but I am surviving and also each of my 70k ton ish carriers can deploy about 600 tons of boarding troops (deployed from 500 ton boarding craft) in a typical engagement.