Author Topic: C# Suggestions  (Read 272860 times)

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Offline xenoscepter

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Re: C# Suggestions
« Reply #2565 on: April 22, 2022, 11:46:06 AM »
Not sure how I feel about large civilian sensors, sure they're less powerful for balance and I assume still expensive to build but having maintenance free mega-radar seems a bit off given how sensitive and delicate sensor equipment is supposed to be.

With engines though I'm kind of onboard with the idea of having a commercial toggle that is equivalent to current power/mass/fuel efficiency ratio to allow for commercial "fighters".

 --- Yeah, I'm iffy on the sensor bit myself, but figured I'd throw it in because it illustrates a place where gameplay could be simplified and wasn't, thus undermining simplification as an objection to the implementation of my suggestion... at least standing alone w/o other reasons.
 

Offline nuclearslurpee

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Re: C# Suggestions
« Reply #2566 on: April 22, 2022, 01:00:46 PM »
The problem, such as I intuit it, is that commercial ships cannot be small, because commercial engines cannot be small, and commercial ships cannot be relatively fast, because commercial engines have low EP per ton. The latter also limits the pulling power of Tugs.

I disagree that this is a problem; I think these are fair and valid tradeoffs for the lack of maintenance requirement.


--- If Commercial Engines get no fuel efficiency bonus above and beyond the typical, then that's fine, but the point is that a Commercial Engine can be used Commercial-y. It is valid for no maintenance designs. The Military Engine with 200% doesn't have this ability, while the commercial engine does, but trades away the power and instead gives that mass over to the ability to be No Maintenance when on a Commercial Design. Using Commercial Engines on a Military Ship thus have no utility anymore, since the No Maintenance is wasted.
--- I failed to communicate this, and I'm sorry for that, but my assumption was the Engine Size tech was still the upper limit for what you could choose as a base. So a 200% Military Engine that was 1,250 tons would indeed become a 100% Commercial Engine of 2,500 Tons. I deemed that mostly irrelevant since it confers no advantage, however with consideration of larger engines being more fuel efficient than smaller per hullsize that might not actually be the case.

There is actually a significant advantage, not so much because of the larger engines possible (although I do think it is a problem still), but because a ship with effectively military engines will appear to the sensors of other races to have commercial engines. Thus as long as I have the necessary techs (and engine boost tech is both cheap and necessary for any fleet which uses missiles, so this is quite probable), I have no reason to ever design, say, a 100% military engine when I could instead design a "200% + commercial" engine of half the size, with exactly the same performance characteristics and the ability to prevent my opponents from identifying which of my ship classes are military or commercial... currently to undertake such a deception requires significant sacrifice of efficiency.

We can discuss separately if it makes sense to have this distinction from sensor readings (personally I think it makes not much sense), but as it is the current game mechanic we have to consider such a change in light of that mechanic.

Another significant ramification, not yet discussed, is that commercial jump engines become able to jump military ships with military-speed engines. This is a significant point of balance (as always, in the Aurora sense of balance), because even though commercial jump drives are somewhat larger they are much cheaper to build and maintain.


Quote
--- This streamlines the how and why, since we can assume the how is that whatever is being used to make the Military one go 200% is halved or being used to the effect of making a smaller one at 100%, while using that space saved to add the Magic Doesn't Break Smoke that makes Commercial Engines do their thing. Likewise, the arbitrary engine size and power limit is no longer an arbitrary limit, but a flexible one with a simple toggle that asks the player: "Is this for a Warship or Not?" Another problem it solves is not being able to make tiny Commercial Ships... or even FAC sized ones, to be honest. Currently every Commercial ship MUST exceed 1,250 Tons... before Crew Quarters, Fuel and the lot.

Again I do not think this is a problem, although I do concede that there is a certain design space which is closed off (as you expand on following this block).

That said, I am not on principle opposed to enabling small commercial craft, but it needs to be done carefully or a design space for interesting decisions can be lost as well.  For example, if 500-ton commercial colony ships or tankers are possible, that's well and good, but does that also enable constructing commercial scouts in the same tonnage range? In many of my campaigns I make regular use of 250-ton scouts based from boat bays, but if those scouts are 'commercial' I no longer need to provide boat bays to transport them as I can just build several dozen of them and scatter them everywhere even without fleet support.

Whereas under the current rules, I can still access this maintenance-free ship-based scouting and monitoring capability, if I want it, but there is a tradeoff as such a ship will be >1,250 tons in size - I have done exactly this in my Duranium Legion AAR as a matter of fact. Thus there is a place for both types of designs as each has important tradeoffs and capabilities. This is the kind of interesting decision-making space the current commercial/military mechanic creates quite effectively, and which I am very hesitant to give up just for tanker FACs (to phrase a bit glibly).

If it was not for considerations like this, I would honestly be fine with just saying any engine with 0.5x or lower boost is commercial (unless it has thermal reduction, of course). However, in practice the implications for small-craft design are not those which I would be happy with, so I prefer the current system.


Quote
--- Hell, while we're at it, why not do the same for sensors? Give it a dropdown to tag it as Commercial, same size, but half the strength... but putting it on a ship doesn't make it military?

Because frelloff huge, maintenance-free sensor platforms or ships are a really bad idea for Aurora gameplay.


Verisimilitude is always nice.  :)

Not always, there is such a thing as trying to be too realistic at the cost of good gameplay. Every game with such a level of detail must be careful not to cross such a line lest we end up requiring Italian spaceships to carry 25% more water to boil their pasta.  :P

----

Overall, to sum up a bit my perspective: an arbitrary commercial vs. military divide is necessary for Aurora's style of gameplay. The current rule of 50% boost and size >= 25 may not cover every case someone might wish for, but it is simple enough to be easily understood as a rule (it is literally documented in the component design screen, it is not arcane hidden knowledge) and it creates interesting design decisions which is a fundamental imperative of Aurora's gameplay.

In my mind, any suggestion to change the commercial vs. military mechanics, whether for engines or more generally, needs to demonstrate not that it is "more realistic" but that it preserves and creates interesting gameplay decisions in line with the current mechanics.
 
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Offline Froggiest1982

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Re: C# Suggestions
« Reply #2567 on: April 22, 2022, 05:33:35 PM »
You forgot the extra cargo space to bring our mandolinos....

Offline Indefatigable

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Re: C# Suggestions
« Reply #2568 on: April 23, 2022, 04:16:20 AM »
Construction Cycle Time
Order Delay


Instead of inputting the amount in seconds only, which can be big values in the hundreds of thousands or even millions, in addition one could type for example:

7d for 7 days, which the code would convert into 604800 seconds
3m for 3 months
1y for 1 year etc.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2022, 04:19:17 AM by Indefatigable »
 
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Offline Destragon

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Re: C# Suggestions
« Reply #2569 on: April 25, 2022, 08:03:19 PM »
I have a small suggestion that would probably be very useful:
On the left side of the Class Design window, where it lists all your ship designs, put in brackets an "(o)" next to the names of classes that use components that are marked as obsolete.
Alternatively, the names of the ships with obsolete components could be given a colour like red or yellow and when clicking on one of those ships and then on the "class components" tab, the obsolete components could also be highlighted in that colour. That would be nice, too.

Edit:
Similarly, unlocked class designs should also have either an "(u)" next to their name or have a different colour for their name.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2022, 09:10:57 AM by Destragon »
 
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Offline nuclearslurpee

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Re: C# Suggestions
« Reply #2570 on: April 25, 2022, 09:04:21 PM »
I have a small suggestion that would probably be very useful:
On the left side of the Class Design window, where it lists all your ship designs, put in brackets an "(o)" next to the names of classes that use components that are marked as obsolete.
Alternatively, the names of the ships with obsolete components could be given a colour like red or yellow and when clicking on one of those ships and then on the "class components" tab, the obsolete components could also be highlighted in that colour. That would be nice, too.

Coloring the class name would be a great addition. Maybe also a different color for classes with "design issues" in the lower-right pane?
 

Offline alex_brunius

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Re: C# Suggestions
« Reply #2571 on: April 26, 2022, 05:54:13 AM »
Orbital Commerce and Finance Module:
- A new ship module along the lines of others but with the purpose of generating wealth ( Same function as Financial Center but for large commercial stations )


Other loosely related ideas to wealth and trade:
- It could be cool to have some tradegoods generation and demand in some way connected to wealth generated by Financial Centers instead of population. For example high demand of Luxury tradegoods in colonies with a strong Financial Center base.
- Maybe instead of transporting pointlessly small numbers of population the Civilian Luxury Liners could have a seperate category of "cargohold" the only ones capable of transporting a new type of trade goods "Business Travelers" from and to Financial Centers and other colonies in these small fast luxury liners, these would be paying a high premium tax for the fast trip.
- Overall more dynamic tradegoods for flavor and story ( colonies with lots of Industry generating things like construction material, machinery and personal transports, while mining colonies generate more things like precious metals or chemicals ).
- Exotic unique tradegoods that can be discovered in planets ( and will only be added as a demand to all other planets after discovered ). Think stuff like a delicious animal or fun pet (luxury from habitable planet) or useful unique material (mining colony) or cultural unique tradegood ( one per alien race homeworld ).
 
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Offline skoormit

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Re: C# Suggestions
« Reply #2572 on: May 01, 2022, 08:24:12 AM »
ELINT ships tend to be deployed for many years at a time, following an NPR population at a large distance--just close enough for the ELINT sensors to detect the EM signature of the population.

Sometimes, the EM signature of an NPR population decreases.
When this happens, the ELINT ship can lose contact with the population.
As a result, the ELINT ship is no longer gathering intel, and this can continue for years, since the player is not made aware when this happens.

It would be nice if an ELINT losing contact with an enemy population caused an event log message to appear.
 
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Offline Garfunkel

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Re: C# Suggestions
« Reply #2573 on: May 02, 2022, 12:02:41 AM »
ELINT ships tend to be deployed for many years at a time, following an NPR population at a large distance--just close enough for the ELINT sensors to detect the EM signature of the population.

Sometimes, the EM signature of an NPR population decreases.
When this happens, the ELINT ship can lose contact with the population.
As a result, the ELINT ship is no longer gathering intel, and this can continue for years, since the player is not made aware when this happens.

It would be nice if an ELINT losing contact with an enemy population caused an event log message to appear.
Hear hear, this would be very useful!
 
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Offline xenoscepter

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Re: C# Suggestions
« Reply #2574 on: May 11, 2022, 12:10:25 PM »
 Would it be possible for Artillery, when being subjected to Counter-Battery Fire, would use the higher of their two "evasion" stats? So the higher of Hit Mod or Fortification. This I think would make representing a vehicle's ability to "shoot and scoot" over a Static pieces in-ability better represented w/ minimal effort. Since it happens in the Bombardment phase, which I assume is distinct from the regular Attack / Defend phase, this might be simple~ish to execute.
 
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Offline boolybooly

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Re: C# Suggestions
« Reply #2575 on: May 12, 2022, 03:01:23 AM »
Top of my suggestion list would be edit for orders.

I know it would be harder than it sounds as the orders are contextual, one following on from the context of the preceding order, but I think it might be possible to edit at a pointer in the order stack to insert or remove an order based on the preceding order as context and then remember the rest of the stack and add them back one by one when the edit is done with a context check on each as it is added back using the existing context subroutines. If a context is detectably broken, then the order would go red and if a break occurs during gameplay then you get the same as is currently the case and a message saying ShipX cannot complete order.

Would also be nice (in C#) to be able to add / insert chunks of template based on the preceding order context rather than current context of the ship being ordered, which I recall was different in VB6 so I am sure you know what I mean. Must be practicalities I am not aware of but just thought I would mention it.

Its just giving orders is such a substantial part of the way Aurora plays it strikes me it would be worth adding order queue edit and imagine that Steve would enjoy the result for his own QoL, so just airing the thought since this is the suggestions thread. :)
 

Offline skoormit

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Re: C# Suggestions
« Reply #2576 on: May 12, 2022, 09:37:47 AM »
Top of my suggestion list would be edit for orders....

I would love this so much.
Inserting a new order in the middle of a list costs me many, many clicks per hour of play.

I would also appreciate a "Refresh Lagrange Point Usage" feature that would re-check all the intra-system movement for Lagrange shortcuts.
 
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Offline Scandinavian

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Re: C# Suggestions
« Reply #2577 on: May 12, 2022, 11:32:19 AM »
I would also appreciate a "Refresh Lagrange Point Usage" feature that would re-check all the intra-system movement for Lagrange shortcuts.
And the ability to put it in as an order too, so you can re-plot course every time you enter a system on a looping order.
 
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Offline alex_brunius

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Re: C# Suggestions
« Reply #2578 on: May 13, 2022, 04:39:54 AM »
In addition to game setup options for Speeds ( Research, Terraforming and Survey ) it could be interesting to be able to easily modify some of the larger posts of wealth income/expenses in a similar manner for a tailored experience.

You could for example set up a game like this:
Income from Population tax = 50%
Income from Financial Centers = 400%
Income from Civilians = 600% ( CMC + all different shipping )
Production Expense = 200%
Research Expense = 400%
Army Expense = 200% ( construction + maintenance )
Navy Expense = 300% ( shipbuilding + MSP prod + others )

...to tailor an experience where building tall instead of wide is more promoted ( main limitation for growth/tech isn't population but wealth instead ). Could also be a fun way to experiment with how potential future tweaks to baseline wealth would feel/play without needing code changes once it's set up.

 
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Offline skoormit

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Re: C# Suggestions
« Reply #2579 on: May 25, 2022, 09:30:53 AM »
How about a Fighter Shipyard?

Half the cost and workers of a normal Naval Shipyard, but has only 500t capacity.

I would use them mainly for refitting fighters.
 
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