Partially Constructed Jump Gates

[sloanjh (OP)]

What happens when a construction ship leaves a jump gate construction task before it's finished?  Does a partially constructed gate remain, for which any construction ship can take up where the first left off?  Or does the 99% completed jump gate mystically dematerialize?

What's going on is that I've got an NPR building a jump gate in a system that I've got lots going on in.  The construction ships' sensors must be pretty bad, since I've been watching them build away.  Recently, though, the construction ships detected some of my traffic coming out of the WP in question - it seems they got scared and ran away; they took up a course directly opposite to mine for ~20 seconds, then headed back to the WP (presumably when they lost contact).  If they really were working on a jump gate, would it have gone the way of the dodo?  Or could they be finishing it off.

On an NPR/AI side note - there's two of these ships.  They built a gate on one side of the WP (btw, that's another event we should probably have "new jump gate detected"), then jumped through and sat on the other side.  I never noticed any cargo ships bringing in jump gate components, on the other hand, they're much higher tech and somewhat bigger than my construction ships (albeit much faster too) so maybe they have on-board cargo holds (or NPR don't need components to build jump gates).  Is it possible that they jumped into a system where they're trapped (no components to build a jump gate) or that they're trapped now that they ran away (because the jump gate evaporated and they don't have new components)?  Actually, I guess this is a bit of a moot point, since jump gates don't require components in 4.1.

One more thing I just realized - is the squadron size for a jump gate infinite?  That would give a pretty big tactical advantage to building a jump gate into a system you want to attack.  Also, what's the scatter radius for a jump gate?  I've actually been assuming it's zero.

John

PS - Did you ever decide on a mechanism to "blow" jump gates?

[Cassaralla]

I had a Contruction Ship explode due to maintenance failure 90% of the way through constructing a jump gate.  When I got a new ship out there to continue the construction I had to start from scratch again and also ferry out a new set of Jump Gate Components.

Not quite what you were asking, but an example of what can happen.

[sloanjh (OP)]

I had a Contruction Ship explode due to maintenance failure 90% of the way through constructing a jump gate.  When I got a new ship out there to continue the construction I had to start from scratch again and also ferry out a new set of Jump Gate Components.

Not quite what you were asking, but an example of what can happen.

I suspected that was the case - that's the way it works with GeoSurvey points (leaving the task eliminates progress).

John

[Steve Walmsley]

What happens when a construction ship leaves a jump gate construction task before it's finished?  Does a partially constructed gate remain, for which any construction ship can take up where the first left off?  Or does the 99% completed jump gate mystically dematerialize? . As to whether they need to start again, I am not sure. The order remains in place because the flee order is inserted ahead of their first order and then removed when no longer necessary but I can't remember if the time remaining is still the same. It might be reset when they arrive at the jump gate. The code is now completely different for v4.1 because I am rewriting the whole of movement and sensors and pretty much all of the NPR code to use objects instead of reading from the database. NPR combat fleets don't even have any saved orders anymore. Their orders are all calculated at the start of each increment and only ever held in memory, never in the DB. NPR commercial traffic is treated in the same way as civilians, which is that information is loaded at the start of the increment and then accessed from memory. Any changes are saved after combat.  However, to avoid confusion over exactly the type of situation you describe, it has already been coded in v4.1 that any civilian or NPR fleet that has already arrived at a destination and is involved in either loading/unloading or construction is unable to run away until the task is finished.

There is already a 'Jump Gate Detected' event in v4.1

One more thing I just realized - is the squadron size for a jump gate infinite?  That would give a pretty big tactical advantage to building a jump gate into a system you want to attack.  Also, what's the scatter radius for a jump gate?  I've actually been assuming it's zero.

Squadron size is infinite and scatter radius is zero. It is a big advantage to build a jump gate into a system you want to attack, although if things go badly getting out again might be tricky.

PS - Did you ever decide on a mechanism to "blow" jump gates?

I haven't coded it yet but the suggestions I liked best were that any damage would have a low percentage chance to destroy the gate (in effect, it would be one system with a huge HTK) and if the gate was destroyed it would destablise the jump point, which would then be unavailable for anything from days to years. I think I would also move the location of the jump point at both ends when it re-appeared. It would still link the same two systems but in a different location within each system. I don't know if this will make it into v4.1 but I would like to add it eventually.

Steve

[sloanjh (OP)]

One more thing I just realized - is the squadron size for a jump gate infinite?  That would give a pretty big tactical advantage to building a jump gate into a system you want to attack.  Also, what's the scatter radius for a jump gate?  I've actually been assuming it's zero.

Squadron size is infinite and scatter radius is zero. It is a big advantage to build a jump gate into a system you want to attack, although if things go badly getting out again might be tricky.

thx - that's what I suspected.  And yes, it could be a "come back with your shields or don't bother coming back" situation

PS - Did you ever decide on a mechanism to "blow" jump gates?

I haven't coded it yet but the suggestions I liked best were that any damage would have a low percentage chance to destroy the gate (in effect, it would be one system with a huge HTK) and if the gate was destroyed it would destablise the jump point, which would then be unavailable for anything from days to years. I think I would also move the location of the jump point at both ends when it re-appeared. It would still link the same two systems but in a different location within each system. I don't know if this will make it into v4.1 but I would like to add it eventually.

Would you require a resurvey if the WP moved?  From a realism point it seems "yes" would be good; from a coding point it would be a pain.

Hmmmmm - what happens if someone opens a "dormant" WP into a system you've already surveyed?  Can you see it, or is it forever hidden, or is there some event that will make it visible (e.g. seeing a transit), or can you resurvey for it?  It seems like a very similar scenario from a coding/mechanics point of view.

John

[Steve Walmsley]

PS - Did you ever decide on a mechanism to "blow" jump gates?

I haven't coded it yet but the suggestions I liked best were that any damage would have a low percentage chance to destroy the gate (in effect, it would be one system with a huge HTK) and if the gate was destroyed it would destablise the jump point, which would then be unavailable for anything from days to years. I think I would also move the location of the jump point at both ends when it re-appeared. It would still link the same two systems but in a different location within each system. I don't know if this will make it into v4.1 but I would like to add it eventually.

Would you require a resurvey if the WP moved?  From a realism point it seems "yes" would be good; from a coding point it would be a pain.

Hmmmmm - what happens if someone opens a "dormant" WP into a system you've already surveyed?  Can you see it, or is it forever hidden, or is there some event that will make it visible (e.g. seeing a transit), or can you resurvey for it?  It seems like a very similar scenario from a coding/mechanics point of view.

At the moment you have to resurvey for dormant jump points, unless you are lucky enough to detect a ship entering the system, in which case the jump point becomes charted. The transit observation applies for all jump points, not just dormant ones. If you need to resurvey, you can set a system as unsurveyed using SM mode on the F9 window.

For shifting jump point, there could either be some visible sign of re-appearance if you had a ship or pop in the system, or perhaps the same scenario would exist as in the sequel to the Mote in God's Eye, where no one knew when the Alderson Point had shifted until a ship came through - although that's more difficult in this case as both ends will have moved

Steve

[sloanjh (OP)]

At the moment you have to resurvey for dormant jump points, unless you are lucky enough to detect a ship entering the system, in which case the jump point becomes charted. The transit observation applies for all jump points, not just dormant ones. If you need to resurvey, you can set a system as unsurveyed using SM mode on the F9 window.

Thx - I hadn't thought of the SM workaround.   Ummmmm is that why the warp points did't go away when I set the system to unsurveyed at the start?

John

PS - Have fun in Italy!!

[Steve Walmsley]

At the moment you have to resurvey for dormant jump points, unless you are lucky enough to detect a ship entering the system, in which case the jump point becomes charted. The transit observation applies for all jump points, not just dormant ones. If you need to resurvey, you can set a system as unsurveyed using SM mode on the F9 window.

Thx - I hadn't thought of the SM workaround.   Ummmmm is that why the warp points did't go away when I set the system to unsurveyed at the start?

It doesn't remove any known jump points. It just resets the status so you can resurvey if you suspect there are newly activated dormant jump points

PS - Have fun in Italy!!

Thanks - I will . We have a villa in the hills overlooking Lake Trasimeno in Umbria so I am hoping for a few restful days plus day trips out to Rome, Florence and Siena.

Steve