Rude things to do with Drone....

[Arwyn (OP)]

So, I was getting tired of running my poor Scout and Minelayers around my ever expanding empire, and decided that my bigger systems were perfectly capably of taking care of those duties without every getting off their lazy colonial butts.

The solution was inspired... drones! One small PDC with 5 box launchers filled with these;

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Albatross MK I
Missile Size: 28 MSP  (1.4 HS)     Warhead: 0    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 5
Speed: 8600 km/s    Endurance: 1042 minutes   Range: 537.5m km
Cost Per Missile: 16.95
Second Stage: Sensor Mine (Thermal) x1
Second Stage Separation Range: 1,000 km
Overall Endurance: 1621 days   Overall Range: 537.5m km

The Albatross can be configured to carry any of the standard Terran Confederation buoys or mines (all a standard size 18).

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Sensor Mine (Active)
Buoy Size: 18 MSP  (0.9 HS)     Armour: 0
Reactor Endurance: 72 months
Active Sensor Strength: 8.4   Sensitivity Modifier: 110%
Resolution: 50    Maximum Range vs 2500 ton object (or larger): 6,530,000 km
Cost Per Buoy: 23.05
Materials Required:    14.4x Boronide   8.4x Uridium

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Sensor Mine (Thermal)
Buoy Size: 18 MSP  (0.9 HS)     Armour: 0
Reactor Endurance: 72 months
Thermal Sensor Strength: 3.3    Detect Sig Strength 1000:  3,300,000 km
Cost Per Buoy: 17.95
Materials Required:    14.4x Boronide   3.3x Uridium
Then I realized that you can do some pretty NASTY things with PDC's (faster ground reload) and these suckers. Very handy area denial via drone dropped minefields....

These handy little items

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M18 Caltrop ASM Mine Mk III
Buoy Size: 18 MSP  (0.9 HS)     Armour: 0
Reactor Endurance: 45.6 months
Active Sensor Strength: 0.56   Sensitivity Modifier: 110%
Resolution: 50    Maximum Range vs 2500 ton object (or larger): 430,000 km
Cost Per Buoy: 20.9282
Second Stage: SS-N-2-B Thorn IV Submunition x4
Second Stage Separation Range: 400,000 km
Carrying 4 of these;

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SS-N-2-B Thorn IV Submunition
Missile Size: 2.5 MSP  (0.125 HS)     Warhead: 4    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 15
Speed: 26400 km/s    Endurance: 0 minutes   Range: 0.4m km
Active Sensor Strength: 0.5558   Sensitivity Modifier: 110%
Resolution: 50    Maximum Range vs 2500 ton object (or larger): 430,000 km
Cost Per Missile: 2.7808
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 396%   3k km/s 120%   5k km/s 79.2%   10k km/s 39.6%
Then I had an even nasty stroke of brilliance. The Caltrops have active sensors, which the bad guys dont like. It tends to have their defenses prepped since they can see them. So the trick is to NOT let them see them....

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M18HS Tarantula ASM Mine Mk II
Buoy Size: 18 MSP  (0.9 HS)     Armour: 0
Reactor Endurance: 49.8 months
Thermal Sensor Strength: 0.385    Detect Sig Strength 1000:  385,000 km
Cost Per Buoy: 19.168
Second Stage: SS-N-3-Mc Sidewinder Submunition x3
Second Stage Separation Range: 275,000 km

Carrying three of these;

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SS-N-3-Mc Sidewinder Submuntion
Missile Size: 3 MSP  (0.15 HS)     Warhead: 5    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 16
Speed: 24300 km/s    Endurance: 0 minutes   Range: 0.4m km
Thermal Sensor Strength: 0.275    Detect Sig Strength 1000:  275,000 km
Cost Per Missile: 2.891
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 388.8%   3k km/s 128%   5k km/s 77.8%   10k km/s 38.9%
I found that lobbing these in front of the advancing bad guys axis of advance can produce some pretty interesting results. Since they are very small, and thermally activated, the bad guys motored right over them and got a pretty nice surprise. 

Even more fun, they make EXCELLENT jump denial weapons. I had a truly ANNOYING enemy fleet that kept jumping in system, mixing up with my ships and running like hell when their ammo ran dry. I hadn't spotted the jump point they were using, since the annoying twits kept potting my survey ships. I had two drone carrier ships sitting WAY out from the area I suspected the jump point was, and I had a small PDC with the Thermal mine drones. I spammed the big thermal mine drones along the path they had taken before and fled down the last time.

Sure enough, the twits showed back up a couple of months later for another raid and the thermals spotted them. I didnt get the jump point that time, but I narrowed down the area and lobbed thermal mines. Four months later and BINGO, I get a enemy transit message in the log, and and a nice thermal spot to mark it.

Bad guys sortied to go attack my fleet, but while they were away, my two drone carriers dropped 40 Albatross drones with active mines in front of the suspected warp point.

Bad guys missile cruisers ran for the warp point again, and got to eat 160 missiles off of the mines. 

The only way this could be more fun, is if the Thermal mines didn't tip off the NPR's as to who shot them.... think of the fun to be had with THAT!!

[Sarganto]

So basically you use the orbital small PDC to fire Drones to your jump points that will fire on entering ships?

What is the advantage over "normal" mines?

And 50 months reactor endurance isn't really enough for long-term defense.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

So the thermal mines work? That's cool, I didn't think they would.

Size 28 though... !!! How much RP do these drones cost! It's got to be a lot....

Nice thing is tho, since you've already got all these designed, you could toss a launcher on a survey ship and give it some recon ability / or some ability to fight back... much better than glaring angrily at that NPR gravscout. :]

[Arwyn (OP)]

So basically you use the orbital small PDC to fire Drones to your jump points that will fire on entering ships?

What is the advantage over "normal" mines?

And 50 months reactor endurance isn't really enough for long-term defense.

The biggest advantage is that I dont have to have ships in the system to provide some defense at the jump points, or against scouts. Normal missiles work fine IF they actually come into range of the PDC.

The problem I have seen is the scouts that come in and grav survey the system unopposed, and if there arent any of my ships insystem, I cant stop him. With these, I can drop mines on the warp points or the grav survey locations and knock down those ships.

[Arwyn (OP)]

So the thermal mines work? That's cool, I didn't think they would.

Size 28 though... !!! How much RP do these drones cost! It's got to be a lot....

Nice thing is tho, since you've already got all these designed, you could toss a launcher on a survey ship and give it some recon ability / or some ability to fight back... much better than glaring angrily at that NPR gravscout. :]

1695 RP for the basic thermal
2295 RP for the Active sensors
2174 for the active mines
1858 for the thermal mines

They arent cheap, but considering the cost of the other techs at the level I am at, its not too bad.

And yes, they do a nice job on grav scouts.

I have box launchers for some size 12 missiles for the next version of my scouts that pack some serious missiles for those other guys ships.

[Thiosk]

This is interesting.  I've never looked into MIRV or Drone designs.  You should put some of this in the wiki, especially those designs, since they're now battle tested and include a basic doctrine.

[Theokrat]

Well you could have had the same effect by deploying the mines the "normal" way through a dedicated ship.  This ship would not have to be around when the bad guys enter either, the whole point of a minefield being to operate on its own.

On the other hand the ability to rapidly lay a minefield in a short amount of time without having a big radar signature flying around can of course be very valuable when the enemy is already present.  But if the purpose of this is "hot" mine laying in the presence of the enemy, then the mines could do with significantly less reactor endurance.  If the mines are deployed right into the path of advancing enemy they could well do with a duration of 1-2 months, no? That could save some significant space.

A question though: I tend to run around with my PD-radar activated most of the time, and even at relatively low tech levels a 18 MSP (=0. 9 HS) mine would show up on the sensors when they are still several million miles away.  Seeing that the mines "only" have a range of 400k km, they would be unlikely to do much damage except for JP defense, no? Or are enemies just that unlikely to switch on their PD radars?

[dgibso29]

I keep the most powerful Anti-Missile Sensor in each task group active at all times. Generally the most powerful search sensor, as well.

[Arwyn (OP)]

A question though: I tend to run around with my PD-radar activated most of the time, and even at relatively low tech levels a 18 MSP (=0. 9 HS) mine would show up on the sensors when they are still several million miles away.  Seeing that the mines "only" have a range of 400k km, they would be unlikely to do much damage except for JP defense, no? Or are enemies just that unlikely to switch on their PD radars?

I have managed to bushwack the bad guys repeatedly with these, especially with the thermal based mines. Until the first attack, the NPR's tend to keep their actives turned off. Once the first salvo goes in, the sensors come up, but by then, the mines have fired. As soon as they see active sensors painting them, the NPR's WILL turn on their own actives and any unfired mines die.

Once the sensors are up, the mines are generally dead, which is why I don't have very dense minefields, they tend to be a waste.

My usual usage is active mines on jump points, usually with several groups in a box pattern. The sensor range/missile range is within the maximum jump distance, most of the time to trigger most, if not all of the mines.

Thermal mines are usually the ones that get used for "hot" minelaying, since the don't require active sensors to place them or target the bad guys.

I used short ranged missile mines for point blank use. As you push up the sensor range, the number of missiles per mine has to shrink to keep the mine size consistent. The big issue is mine sensors are good to trigger separation, but lack fire control. So, you have to rely on the missiles seeking warheads to target the bad guys. That immediately limits the range of the missiles, unless you make them huge.

If you want to push the mines outside of beam range, you can, but the missile size goes up to 4 or 5 to get a 1m k/m sensor and range with a decent sized warhead.

[luarvic]

Arwyn, did i understand that right: a PDC lunching a drone that fly to jump point and lunching mine that ready to lunch missiles? But i thought missiles need any kind of contact to lunch their second stage thing? Is it possible to lunch drone at way point, and when he arrives he will lunch mines?

[TheDeadlyShoe]

if you target a waypoint, the drone will launch when it reaches it, yes.  You don't need active sensor contact to target a waypoint.

[luarvic]

if you target a waypoint, the drone will launch when it reaches it, yes.   You don't need active sensor contact to target a waypoint. 

Okay, but what if i place sensor on drone, will he lunch submunition if he meet some enemies on his way?

[Arwyn (OP)]

Okay, but what if i place sensor on drone, will he lunch submunition if he meet some enemies on his way?

No, if the drone has a target set for the waypoint, it will still head for the waypoint and then fire the 2nd stage.

[Arwyn (OP)]

Arwyn, did i understand that right: a PDC lunching a drone that fly to jump point and lunching mine that ready to lunch missiles? But i thought missiles need any kind of contact to lunch their second stage thing? Is it possible to lunch drone at way point, and when he arrives he will lunch mines?

Actually, you can launch missiles/drones/buoys WITHOUT a sensor, but they have to be fired at a waypoint or object. If the missile has internal sensors, it will stay at that point and look for targets till its fuel runs out. Anything hostile that approaches the missiles will be targeted once the come within sensor range, and the missiles will attack.

[Nathan_]

Dumping mines directly on a waypoint seems to be tripping half of them into firing their salvo(and wasting it), so I'm finding that I need to be a few km away from said waypoint to use mines.