My very first beam cruiser

[Jorgen_CAB]

Turrets are quite heavy.  Considering the weight there you may want to swap them for a larger number of lasers and power plants,  I don't usually find much use for turrets on frontline combat ships.

That depends on what you intend to use them for. Let's say that your basic tracking speed is 2000km/s and the main combatant you fight against move at 4000km/s then a turret will be more efficient than a cannon at the basic 2000km/s. The turret in this instance is about 20% larger than the actual cannon and you obviously need a fire-control able to handle the speed as well.

In this case you get a cannon that hit at 100% efficiency against 50% efficiency for about 25% increase in cost and size. So, in general there are always tradeoffs and benefits in whatever way you go.

Personally, if the slowest speed of my enemy was 5000km/s I would try and match at least that speed with my laser cannons, anything less and I'm just wasting resources.

[Alfapiomega (OP)]

So I played today and designed the final shape of the ship. It was re-classed, renamed and edited and this is what we have now:

Monitor class Monitor    8,050 tons     235 Crew     1052.5125 BP      TCS 161  TH 47  EM 0
583 km/s     Armour 5-35     Shields 0-0     Sensors 10/10/0/0     Damage Control Rating 26     PPV 43.52
Maint Life 4.35 Years     MSP 490    AFR 86%    IFR 1.2%    1YR 42    5YR 627    Max Repair 115 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 24 months    Spare Berths 0   

Military Engine Class I "Comet" (3)    Power 31.25    Fuel Use 165.96%    Signature 15.625    Exp 12%
Fuel Capacity 750,000 Litres    Range 10.1 billion km   (200 days at full power)

Quad 12cm C2 Near Ultraviolet Laser Turret (2x4)    Range 120,000km     TS: 8000 km/s     Power 16-8     RM 3    ROF 10        4 4 4 3 2 2 1 1 1 1
Fire Control S16 96-8000 (1)    Max Range: 192,000 km   TS: 8000 km/s     95 90 84 79 74 69 64 58 53 48
PWR 4000/100tons (4)     Total Power Output 16    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Short Range Sensors Mk. I - 60/5 (1)     GPS 60     Range 3.0m km    Resolution 1
Medium Range Sensor - 60/5 (1)     GPS 2400     Range 19.0m km    Resolution 40
Thermal Sensor Array Basic Mk. I (1)     Sensitivity 10     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  10m km
EM Detection Array Basic Mk. I (1)     Sensitivity 10     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  10m km

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

I think I fixed almost every thing I didn't like. The armor is lighter, ship is faster, has better range, more engineering supplies, correct class. But most of all the tracking system was switched from S16 96-5000 to  S16 96-8000 which gives us 3000 km/s of tracking speed more!

Two ships are already in operation, Monitor and Vengeance with two more being build. Any more comments to this design?

For future I intend on switching the size of the turrets to smaller type of lasers + adding long range beams/torpedoes, adding a small boat bay for a pinnacle and adding long range sensors.

Thanks again for all the tips!

And btw - I designed the scout ship from scratch and this is what it has:

Raptor - Copy class Corvette    4,600 tons     122 Crew     568.3875 BP      TCS 92  TH 78  EM 0
1695 km/s     Armour 2-24     Shields 0-0     Sensors 30/30/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 5.6
Maint Life 1.06 Years     MSP 77    AFR 169%    IFR 2.4%    1YR 68    5YR 1023    Max Repair 115 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 11 months    Spare Berths 1   

Military Engine Class I "Comet" (5)    Power 31.25    Fuel Use 165.96%    Signature 15.625    Exp 12%
Fuel Capacity 500,000 Litres    Range 11.8 billion km   (80 days at full power)

Single 12cm C2 Near Ultraviolet Laser Turret (1x1)    Range 120,000km     TS: 8000 km/s     Power 4-2     RM 3    ROF 10        4 4 4 3 2 2 1 1 1 1
Fire Control S16 96-8000 (1)    Max Range: 192,000 km   TS: 8000 km/s     95 90 84 79 74 69 64 58 53 48
PWR 4000/100tons (1)     Total Power Output 4    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Short Range Sensors Mk. I - 60/5 (1)     GPS 60     Range 3.0m km    Resolution 1
Military Thermal Signal Array TH6-30 (1)     Sensitivity 30     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  30m km
Military Electromagnetic Detection Array EM6-30 (1)     Sensitivity 30     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  30m km

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Any comments on that one will be much appreciated too!

[drmzsz7]

My fleets 1.5m/km tracking, 4.2bil km fuel range scout fighter

Tribal - Scout class Fighter    250 tons     2 Crew     43.5 BP      TCS 5  TH 6  EM 0
1200 km/s     Armour 1-3     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 0
Maint Life 34.36 Years     MSP 54    AFR 1%    IFR 0%    1YR 0    5YR 1    Max Repair 25 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 0.1 months    Spare Berths 8    

6.25x1.25 Fighter Drive V1.1.1 (1)    Power 6.25    Fuel Use 172.94%    Signature 6.25    Exp 12%
Fuel Capacity 10,000 Litres    Range 4.2 billion km   (40 days at full power)

Active Search Sensor MR1-R1 125 (1)     GPS 25     Range 1.5m km    MCR 163k km    Resolution 1

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes

If you dont have access to tiny parts yet, heres a basic longevity fighter design

Tribal - Recon class Fighter    495 tons     13 Crew     83.5 BP      TCS 9.9  TH 10  EM 0
1010 km/s     Armour 1-5     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 0
Maint Life 34.49 Years     MSP 105    AFR 1%    IFR 0%    1YR 0    5YR 3    Max Repair 30 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 300 months    Spare Berths 0   

Cyclon 5 v1.1.1 (2)    Power 5    Fuel Use 99%    Signature 5    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 50,000 Litres    Range 18.4 billion km   (210 days at full power)

Active Search Sensor MR1-R1 (1)     GPS 30     Range 1.8m km    MCR 196k km    Resolution 1

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes

2x5 EP Engines
1xcrew
1xfuel
1xengineering

1x 150 ton scanner to fill in the 500 heavy fighter frame it can go to pluto and back easy and with tanker support it can go anywhere intra system

[drmzsz7]

dont worry about making scout ships have defensive capabilities, the  best defense for scouting vessels is far sight mixed with high speeds. Aim for cheaper replacements and field larger swarms. , slap on the smallest most efficient engines possible and revolve your design around how far you want your scanner to reach. Keep in mind the BP difference 43/83 to your 568. Mind the fuel differences, the 250 frame has less then half your range but I consume 10k liters to your 500k. Also with a boat bay attachment you can extend the range exponentially.

Also another tip would be to construct the largest resolution 1 scanner possible and fit it on a hull, and slap the largest commercial engine on it twice with fuel for range into hundreds of billions, Knowing you possess the largest scanner your race can possess on at least a frame is pretty reassuring, with sensor drones as throwaway range extenders to boot.

Aegis class Intelligence Ship    7,850 tons     200 Crew     1064.25 BP      TCS 157  TH 125  EM 0
796 km/s     Armour 1-35     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 14     PPV 0
Maint Life 5.73 Years     MSP 1186    AFR 35%    IFR 0.5%    1YR 61    5YR 917    Max Repair 500 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 300 months    Spare Berths 0    

Commercial Drive 125 v50.25.25 (1)    Power 125    Fuel Use 8.84%    Signature 125    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 400,000 Litres    Range 103.7 billion km   (1508 days at full power)

Active Search Sensor MR30-R1 (1)     GPS 500     Range 30.0m km    MCR 3.3m km    Resolution 1

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

For the price of 2x the BP cost I have a scanner thats 10x as powerful as your scout vessel's. Its cheaper to build designs to radar up your territory in overlapping networks then to custom tailor ships to serve in multiple roles with any effectiveness. Granted I always build larger ships with backup redundants just in case but their cheap proximity scanners compared to these sector scanners. This way your killing machines can pack every ton with fight.

[MarcAFK]

I have never used full size sensors, basically because the research cost is quite significant. But I imagine they gave their uses.

[Alfapiomega (OP)]

dont worry about making scout ships have defensive capabilities, the  best defense for scouting vessels is far sight mixed with high speeds. Aim for cheaper replacements and field larger swarms. , slap on the smallest most efficient engines possible and revolve your design around how far you want your scanner to reach. Keep in mind the BP difference 43/83 to your 568. Mind the fuel differences, the 250 frame has less then half your range but I consume 10k liters to your 500k. Also with a boat bay attachment you can extend the range exponentially.

Also another tip would be to construct the largest resolution 1 scanner possible and fit it on a hull, and slap the largest commercial engine on it twice with fuel for range into hundreds of billions, Knowing you possess the largest scanner your race can possess on at least a frame is pretty reassuring, with sensor drones as throwaway range extenders to boot.

Aegis class Intelligence Ship    7,850 tons     200 Crew     1064.25 BP      TCS 157  TH 125  EM 0
796 km/s     Armour 1-35     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 14     PPV 0
Maint Life 5.73 Years     MSP 1186    AFR 35%    IFR 0.5%    1YR 61    5YR 917    Max Repair 500 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 300 months    Spare Berths 0    

Commercial Drive 125 v50.25.25 (1)    Power 125    Fuel Use 8.84%    Signature 125    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 400,000 Litres    Range 103.7 billion km   (1508 days at full power)

Active Search Sensor MR30-R1 (1)     GPS 500     Range 30.0m km    MCR 3.3m km    Resolution 1

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

For the price of 2x the BP cost I have a scanner thats 10x as powerful as your scout vessel's. Its cheaper to build designs to radar up your territory in overlapping networks then to custom tailor ships to serve in multiple roles with any effectiveness. Granted I always build larger ships with backup redundants just in case but their cheap proximity scanners compared to these sector scanners. This way your killing machines can pack every ton with fight.

Thank you for the comment!

It is an interesting comparison to say the least. Rarely you see fighter/large sensor and a multi-purpose scout ship next to each other.

The reason behind the larger Raptor that I use (I have 3 Raptor II's now in service) was that I intended for them to be at least able to do some minimal point defence and make it easier for myself to increase their capabilities in the future (that future is basically coming in the next two years where Raptor III will enter service with three more ships of it's kind. These will have:
- improved military engine (better efficiency and less signature) which will in effect give them higher speed - this is optional as I have a new line of engines coming soon afterwards so maybe I'll withhold that until later (Raptor IIIe)
- new line of active sensor that will give them better range
- new twin turret (as opposed to single turret now] with both higher fire rate and targeting speed. We should get to 12 000 km/s easily, I will also get a new targeting sensor on

Same way the Monitor will be enhanced - better quad turrets, higher targeting speed, better engines and possibly even more fuel to extend their range. Sensor overhaul might wait.

The logic I am following here is to use a type of ship that will continually be upgraded and improved to adapt to current situation. If such thing is no longer possible there will be a new type of ship created to deal with it. I.e. for almost five decade's now I use Lilian class survey ships. They went from a conventional rocket ships to nuclear, their geosurvey sensors were improved, later they got more fuel, more efficient engines, gravitational sensors, EM and TH sensors and now I am preparing the project for Lilian IV class survey craft (they will carry shuttles and I intend to further increase their capabilities in the area of survey and independent travel).
On the other hand I can easily see your logic behind your design. Shuttles are dirt cheap and can reach as far as 18.4 billion (!!!) km. I could also increase that by more efficient engines and it would serve me well as well. And as for Aegis design, I actually consider making this one down the line. Though as was said the cost for the sensor must be incredible and I would say that size 1 is an overkill. On this range (maximum) even a 200 would be good enough to pick anything of interest at a reasonable range.

[drmzsz7]

I havent quite figured out the sensors inefficiency ratio. Everything in this game gets better with stacking until you reach that magic point when mass/power ratio gives you less and less returns per increase. A sensor built around that would be the smallest, most powerful, scanner according to effectiveness/efficiency in relation to mass/power. For example you could drop from a 50hs to a 30hs and only loose 100m km of scanning range for a several thousand ton drop. Your scanning range would be 500m km instead of 600m km (using max resolution ranges as a basis), shaving off a ton of space yet keeping overall losses minimal.

[Alfapiomega (OP)]

I havent quite figured out the sensors inefficiency ratio. Everything in this game gets better with stacking until you reach that magic point when mass/power ratio gives you less and less returns per increase. A sensor built around that would be the smallest, most powerful, scanner according to effectiveness/efficiency in relation to mass/power. For example you could drop from a 50hs to a 30hs and only loose 100m km of scanning range for a several thousand ton drop. Your scanning range would be 500m km instead of 600m km (using max resolution ranges as a basis), shaving off a ton of space yet keeping overall losses minimal.

Well the problem is elsewhere IMO. They have the resolution that they focus on (1, 50, 5000 etc.) that you chose. This sets what they are balanced to take. Obviously the sensor 1 has shorter range than sensor 5000 on the same size of the sensor. But then they are modified by the actual size of what they looks for. IF it's bigger the range increases, if it's smaller the range sharply decreases.
So i.e. a sensor with resolution 1 will pick a size 1 object (say a missile) on the range of 3 million km. It will also detect any bigger ship on an increased range, say object of a resolution 40 at 8 milion km no problem (just an educated ass-pull).
On the other hand a resolution 40 will pick resolution 40 anywhere near 19 milion km's but it will only pick the size 1 say 600k km away.

So in effect the number only tells you about the one resolution you have but it picks larger and smaller objects as well. And I have hard time imagining why I would need to see missiles so god damn far away when increasing the resolution to say 10x wouldn't really hurt my missile interception capabilities but would also give me a lot of increased range for everything bigger.

[MarcAFK]

If I might interject, actually the range listed for an active sensor is literally the maximum range it will detect anything equal to or larger than its resolution, but anything smaller is detected at significantly decreasing range as size drops. Passive sensors however do work that way, a sensor that can detect a 1000 thermal contact at 30 million kilometers will detect a 2000 thermal at a higher range. I can think of 2 reasons you might want a seriously long range missile sensor, 1) longer interception time, only useful if your anti missiles are equally long ranged, and 2) to give time for anti missile pickets to redeploy to a different bearing from vulnerable task group members, not particularly useful as most commanders will leave antimissile escorts in the same location as their capital assets, as moving them further from the center of the fleet does increase their interception range, but decreases the number of ships that can actually reach each salvo in a few particular locations. Still I imagine any admiral would prefer as much warning as possible before contact with enemy missiles. Oh, also it would be useful for sweeping minefields.

[Alfapiomega (OP)]

If I might interject, actually the range listed for an active sensor is literally the maximum range it will detect anything equal to or larger than its resolution, but anything smaller is detected at significantly decreasing range as size drops.

This is new to me. So the max range is maximum range even for a bigger object?

[MarcAFK]

Well this us what the wiki says : "Active sensors consist of grav pulse sensors and allow a ship to detect other ships or missiles equal to or above it's stated resolution size within it's stated range. " There is an excellent comparison of different sensors on the wiki "http://aurorawiki.pentarch.org/index.php?title=Active_Sensor_Design, you see how the detection range becomes a flat line at its max range no matter the size of the contact.

[drmzsz7]

I have a question in regards to scanning ranges and their relationship to this tracking missile bonus I see. Does this tracking speed modifier apply to the ship in questions active scanner or does it receive tracking bonus's from a Command Ships Sensor Array, which can see alot further.

[Charlie Beeler]

The missile tracking bonus starts incrementing when a missile is detected, no matter the friendly tracking source. 

It's not a speed modifier though.  It's an offset to any to hit penalty incurred if you're beam fire controls tracking speed is lower than the speed of the missile you're attempting to intercept.  If memory serves, it increments at 2% per 5 second cycle starting with the first cycle after initial detection. 

And MarcAFK is quite correct about the max range of an active sensor.  The designed size and resolution determines maximum range for the set resolution and larger.  If the target is smaller then the detection range drops.

[Alfapiomega (OP)]

And MarcAFK is quite correct about the max range of an active sensor.  The designed size and resolution determines maximum range for the set resolution and larger.  If the target is smaller then the detection range drops.

Awesome, thank you for the information!

[Jorgen_CAB]

The missile tracking bonus starts incrementing when a missile is detected, no matter the friendly tracking source. 

It's not a speed modifier though.  It's an offset to any to hit penalty incurred if you're beam fire controls tracking speed is lower than the speed of the missile you're attempting to intercept.  If memory serves, it increments at 2% per 5 second cycle starting with the first cycle after initial detection. 

And MarcAFK is quite correct about the max range of an active sensor.  The designed size and resolution determines maximum range for the set resolution and larger.  If the target is smaller then the detection range drops.

I just would like to point out that the "missile tracking bonus" does actually not work as intended. I have tested this about half a dozen times across the few latest versions of the game including 6.30. Unless I'm proven wrong that is my findings.
So don't build a big res 1 sensor for that purpose for the time being.

I would not build any sensor bigger that I actually need to get a lock on something. I personally like small scouts to paint my targets than one giant sensor ship that just is a target. My capital ship just keep low to medium range high/low res sensors as backup. This reserve RP for more pressing issues such as more advances sensor technology and also make upgrading my sensor equipment much cheaper.