AMM set ups

[chrislocke2000 (OP)]

quick couple of questions on AMM set ups-

I currently have my missile defence destroyers set up with 20 size 1 launchers and 5 missile fire controls with 4 launchers allocated to each control on the basis that I want a 4 to 1 shoot ratio against incomming missiles. The question is do I actually need this number of controllers to achieve this 4-1 ratio?

Second one is I also have a active search sensor that can spot size 1 ships out to 8.8 million km however I was unable to detect incomming missiles until they were under 1m km out. I was under the impression from previous posts that a resolution 1 sensor picked up everything below size 1 as if they were size one - ie it would pick up incomming missiles at 8.8 mil km, but does this not appear to be the case?

[Steve Walmsley]

quick couple of questions on AMM set ups-

I currently have my missile defence destroyers set up with 20 size 1 launchers and 5 missile fire controls with 4 launchers allocated to each control on the basis that I want a 4 to 1 shoot ratio against incomming missiles. The question is do I actually need this number of controllers to achieve this 4-1 ratio?

You need one controller for every simultaneous salvo you want to fire. So if you want fire all your missiles in groups of four, you will need five fire controls. With only one fire control, you would have to fire all missiles at the same target. With a 4v1 engagement ratio you would effectively only fire four missiles per increment.

Second one is I also have a active search sensor that can spot size 1 ships out to 8.8 million km however I was unable to detect incomming missiles until they were under 1m km out. I was under the impression from previous posts that a resolution 1 sensor picked up everything below size 1 as if they were size one - ie it would pick up incomming missiles at 8.8 mil km, but does this not appear to be the case?

This used to be the case a few versions ago. Now it works a little differently. The formula for active sensor range now uses the following formula.

Range = SQRT(Resolution) x Active Sensor Strength x EM Sensitivity x 10,000 km

The formula for detecting objects smaller than the sensor resolution remains the same, which is: (Object Size / Resolution)^2

A resolution 1 sensor has to detect everything based on its actual size, even if that is smaller than 1 HS. However, Aurora also has a minimum target signature equal to one third of a hull space, or a size 6 missile. The technobabble is that any TN object, no matter how small, creates some minimal gravitational disturbance. Which means that a missile of size 6 or below is only going to be detected at about nine percent of the max range of a resolution 1 sensor. To compensate for the changes, the new active sensor formula means that resolution 1 sensors have about ten times the range they had before the change.

Here is an example of how this is displayed in the Create Research Project window. This is for a size 6, resolution 1 active sensor. The tech is Grav Sensor 21 and EM 11.

Missile Detection Sensor
Active Sensor Strength: 126   Sensitivity Modifier: 110%
Sensor Size: 6 HS    Sensor HTK: 1
Resolution: 1    Maximum Range: 13,860,000 km
Range vs Size 6 Missile (or smaller): 1,509,354 km
Range vs Size 8 Missile: 2,217,600 km
Range vs Size 12 Missile: 4,989,600 km
Chance of destruction by electronic damage: 100%
Cost: 126    Crew: 30
Materials Required: 31.5x Duranium  94.5x Uridium
Development Cost for Project: 1260RP

Steve

[Hawkeye]

quick couple of questions on AMM set ups-

I currently have my missile defence destroyers set up with 20 size 1 launchers and 5 missile fire controls with 4 launchers allocated to each control on the basis that I want a 4 to 1 shoot ratio against incomming missiles. The question is do I actually need this number of controllers to achieve this 4-1 ratio?

Not per se. Your ships will continue to launch missiles, until each enemy missile is targeted by 4 of your AMMs. As AMMs miss/hit, they will start launching AMMs again, until the requirement is again fullfilled.
However, as each MFC can only target one target at a time, if you are attacked by many small salvos, there might be problems engaging all enemy salvos in a timely manner

Second one is I also have a active search sensor that can spot size 1 ships out to 8.8 million km however I was unable to detect incomming missiles until they were under 1m km out. I was under the impression from previous posts that a resolution 1 sensor picked up everything below size 1 as if they were size one - ie it would pick up incomming missiles at 8.8 mil km, but does this not appear to be the case?

When you design your active sensor, there is some text showing the detection range for size 6, size 8 and size 12 missiles. An active sensor with a range of 19.4 mkm for example, can see small missiles (size-6 or smaller) only out to somewhat above 2 mkm.

[chrislocke2000 (OP)]

Great thanks for the quick responses, missed the sensor ranges against sized missiles in the design summary.

Given that my AMM launchers only fire once every ten second I assume I could therefore just asign 1 fire control to 8 launchers each so they fire on one incomming missile on first contact and then 5 seconds later use the remaining 4 tubes to fire on the next then switch back to the reloaded tubes in the thrid phase etc??

[Hawkeye]

No, no, you don´t shoot at individual missiles, you shoot at salvos.
If a salvo has 2 missiles, in your example, you would launch all 8 AMMs immediately
If a salvo has 4 missiles, two or your firecons would launch 8 AMMs each at it immediately and so on until you run out of either firecons/launchers or enemy missiles to target.

I try to make an example:
Say you have 4 MFCs with 5 launchers each and have them set to 2 AMMs vs. each enemy missile

Say you are attacked by 4 missileboats, launching 4 missiles every 20 seconds.

On time 0 seconds, you detect the first 4 salvos of 4 missiles inbound and your ship launches 5 missiles against each of the enemy salvos
At time 10 seconds, your launchers have reloaded and each MFC launches 3 missiles at each of the enemy salvos
At time 20 seconds, the next four salvos are detected. As your launcher have reloaded, another 5 missiles are launched at each of the new salvos

This goes on until the first AMMs start to intercept the enemy missiles. Some of the them are destroyed, some are not. The remaining missiles are again targeted by your MFCs. This is, where many MFCs come in handy.
There will probably be quite a few 1- or 2-missile salvos left after some time. With only one or two MFCs, those will be the only salvos engaged by your ship, while the new, full-sized salvos, appearing in the meantime, will go unengaged for the time being.

[Erik L]

No, no, you don´t shoot at individual missiles, you shoot at salvos.
If a salvo has 2 missiles, in your example, you would launch all 8 AMMs immediately
If a salvo has 4 missiles, two or your firecons would launch 8 AMMs each at it immediately and so on until you run out of either firecons/launchers or enemy missiles to target.

I try to make an example:
Say you have 4 MFCs with 5 launchers each and have them set to 2 AMMs vs. each enemy missile

Say you are attacked by 4 missileboats, launching 4 missiles every 20 seconds.

On time 0 seconds, you detect the first 4 salvos of 4 missiles inbound and your ship launches 5 missiles against each of the enemy salvos
At time 10 seconds, your launchers have reloaded and each MFC launches 3 missiles at each of the enemy salvos
At time 20 seconds, the next four salvos are detected. As your launcher have reloaded, another 5 missiles are launched at each of the new salvos

This goes on until the first AMMs start to intercept the enemy missiles. Some of the them are destroyed, some are not. The remaining missiles are again targeted by your MFCs. This is, where many MFCs come in handy.
There will probably be quite a few 1- or 2-missile salvos left after some time. With only one or two MFCs, those will be the only salvos engaged by your ship, while the new, full-sized salvos, appearing in the meantime, will go unengaged for the time being.

Which is why I'm a proponent of the multi-layered PD school. Your AMM go after the long-range intercepts, laser turrets for those in the 200k - 300k range, and CIWS for last ditch.

[chrislocke2000 (OP)]

Thanks guys, i had not realised the distinction between salvos and individual missiles for the purposes of the fire control.

Oh and yes I will be layering my defense as soon as I can research some laser tech!

[DatAlien]

Gauss cannon are goood to as soon you have 3 shots per 5 secs

[Erik L]

Anything that can be turretted. Lasers are good for a long (for beams) range punch against armored missiles. Meson and gauss are good against unarmored missiles. Though I think meson would ignore missile armor too.

[Brian Neumann]

Anything that can be turretted. Lasers are good for a long (for beams) range punch against armored missiles. Meson and gauss are good against unarmored missiles. Though I think meson would ignore missile armor too.

Mesons do ignore missile armor.  Also at lower tech especially the 10cm railgun is quite effective for pd work.  It is basically the same as a gauss cannon setup for low level weapons, and of course it can not be turreted.

Brian

[varth]

("Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days.
Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic. ")

Thanks for that, but this seems as good a place as any; I've 'searched' for a while for a place to post this question lol. . . .

WHEN does my Missile Design convert from 'Anti Ship Missile' to 'Anti Missile Missile', in the default Tech Name box?
I know it has to be size 1 and do at least SOME damage, but I can't create or find this magic formula.

My 1st post (I think?) Thank you

[Erik L]

("Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days.
Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic. ")

Thanks for that, but this seems as good a place as any; I've 'searched' for a while for a place to post this question lol. . . .

WHEN does my Missile Design convert from 'Anti Ship Missile' to 'Anti Missile Missile', in the default Tech Name box?
I know it has to be size 1 and do at least SOME damage, but I can't create or find this magic formula.

My 1st post (I think?) Thank you

AMM are size 1 missiles. Anything larger is ASM.

[niflheimr]

I've recently fumbled with size 10 external missile buses (mines) for when you know someone has launched birds at you. Each bus has 700k res 1 sensors ( I'm around inertial fusion tech) and 4 size 1.5 AMMs. It seems to work well against massive salvos since you can saturate the attack cone with them and you are not limited by your rate of fire.

 Only problem is that you can't change your attack vector or position once you deploy them since you'd lose your AMM shield - and once they are gone you won't have the time to deploy more.

What I'd really enjoy is some kind of ECM/chaff pod - deploy it and a percentage of the missiles will lock on them - would make my fighters survive more than a couple of turns