Question about the surrender mechanics

[kilo (OP)]

It is my first play through and I am still harassing the enemy (and the forums to some extend). On the last few occasions the enemy was a good sport and fought to the end, but this time they surrendered. I mean it is nice of them to do so but rather questionable after all. After all I got these three ships for free. (warning, the formatting might suck)

Two of these babies

TT Oraiste 007  (Oraiste class Troop Transport)      70,644 tons       424 Crew       2,712.6 BP       TCS 1,413    TH 1,536    EM 0
1087 km/s      Armour 6-152       Shields 0-0       HTK 169      Sensors 6/6/0/0      DCR 1      PPV 0
MSP 23    Max Repair 200 MSP
Troop Capacity 30,000 tons     Drop Capable    Cargo Shuttle Multiplier 4   
Captain (JG)    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months   

Commercial Nuclear Pulse Engine  EP128.0 (12)    Power 1536    Fuel Use 5.06%    Signature 128    Explosion 4%
Fuel Capacity 350,000 Litres    Range 17.6 billion km (187 days at full power)

CIWS-120 (2x6)    Range 1000 km     TS: 12,000 km/s     ROF 5       
Thermal Sensor TH1-6 (1)     Sensitivity 6     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  19.4m km
EM Sensor EM1-6 (1)     Sensitivity 6     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  19.4m km

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes


And this bad boy:


CJ Droichead Atha II 004  (Droichead Atha II class Jump Cruiser)      15,779 tons       393 Crew       2,170.4 BP       TCS 316    TH 1,000    EM 0
3168 km/s    JR 4-100      Armour 4-56       Shields 0-0       HTK 81      Sensors 18/18/0/0      DCR 8      PPV 0
Maint Life 0.84 Years     MSP 687    AFR 249%    IFR 3.5%    1YR 817    5YR 12,259    Max Repair 843.2 MSP
Commodore    Control Rating 2   BRG   CIC   
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Morale Check Required   

J23700(4-100) Military Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 23700 tons    Distance 100k km     Squadron Size 4

Improved Nuclear Pulse Engine  EP250 (4)    Power 1000    Fuel Use 63.25%    Signature 250    Explosion 10%
Fuel Capacity 950,000 Litres    Range 17.1 billion km (62 days at full power)

CIWS-120 (3x6)    Range 1000 km     TS: 12,000 km/s     ROF 5       
Active Search Sensor AS53-R97 (1)     GPS 6984     Range 53.9m km    Resolution 97
Thermal Sensor TH3-18 (1)     Sensitivity 18     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  33.5m km
EM Sensor EM3-18 (1)     Sensitivity 18     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  33.5m km

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes


These ships might not be the strongest ships ever fielded in the history of Aurora 4x, but they surrendered to my super cheap and slow long endurance fighter. For good reason it's class is named after one of the worst fighters in WW2. I guess the captain will get some medals and promotions for capturing 7595.6 BP worth of shipping and destroying 4 ships worth 145734 tons of enemy shipping in this piece of garbage.


RD I-16 Ishak (m) 002  (I-16 Ishak (m) class Raider)      492 tons       16 Crew       48.8 BP       TCS 10    TH 32    EM 0
3257 km/s      Armour 1-5       Shields 0-0       HTK 3      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 3
Maint Life 11.96 Years     MSP 21    AFR 6%    IFR 0.1%    1YR 0    5YR 4    Max Repair 9 MSP
Captain (JG)    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 10 months    Morale Check Required   

Iulian Thrust Magneto-plasma Drive  EP32.00 (1)    Power 32    Fuel Use 16.77%    Signature 32    Explosion 5%
Fuel Capacity 10,000 Litres    Range 21.8 billion km (77 days at full power)

Umbonius Armaments Company 10cm C3 Infrared Laser (1)    Range 30,000km     TS: 4,000 km/s     Power 3-3     RM 10,000 km    ROF 5       
Bodenius-Pollio Beam Fire Control R51-TS3000 (1)     Max Range: 51,200 km   TS: 3,000 km/s     60 46 31 16 2 0 0 0 0 0
Blandus-Romulus Aeromarine Stellarator Fusion Reactor R3-PB40 (1)     Total Power Output 3    Exp 20%

Trebonius & Tetricus Active Search Sensor AS15-R200 (1)     GPS 420     Range 15.9m km    Resolution 200

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and planetary interaction

[StarshipCactus]

You're fighting the space French.

[vorpal+5]

I'm French, why the insult?

You should double check your history books or watch some videos. We French are very bored to see people without much knowledge of history convey this cliché that French soldiers run with the tails between the legs at the first shot fired. The very cliché of "French surrendered easily in WW2" is very offensive.

The half million soldiers dead during WW2 certainly deserves a better treatment.
The 600.000 soldiers fighting in 44 alongside the others allies deserve a better treatment.
The 40.000 dead Frenchmen who allowed 220.000 British soldiers to evacuate Dunkirk deserve a better treatment.

Shall I continue? So please amend your title, watch some videos or read more books and be a kinder man for the dead of WW2.

[RougeNPS]

Its an American thing. Because Americans are weird.

And it doesnt stem from WW2.

It stems from the many Civil Wars.

[Norm49]

It is weird to see the people that got there ass kick buy rice farmer make joke about the people that had to fight some of the most power full assault in history (french situation was not as bad as the Polish but still).

And yes the french soldier in Dunkirk deserve better they got F*** buy the British. Seriously the British should at lest help the french hold the line when waiting to run a way, when the french were not.

[ZimRathbone]

It is my first play through and I am still harassing the enemy (and the forums to some extend). On the last few occasions the enemy was a good sport and fought to the end, but this time they surrendered. I mean it is nice of them to do so but rather questionable after all. After all I got these three ships for free. (warning, the formatting might suck)

Why wouldn't they surrender?

(1) They cant run as they're slower than the fighter,
(2) they cant fight as CIWS only engages missiles (and even if it could be used against fighters its outranged 3x by the laser on the fighter),
(3) and they cant kamikaze as that's limited to certain spoilers, and also see point 1

As even BEM lives matter it seems a sensible option.

I'll leave the gratuitous insult to our noble French partners of the "Vieille Alliance" to others.

[Steve Walmsley]

And yes the french soldier in Dunkirk deserve better they got F*** buy the British. Seriously the British should at lest help the french hold the line when waiting to run a way, when the french were not.

140,000 French and Belgian soldiers were evacuated from Dunkirk, alongside about 200,000 British soldiers.

https://www.britannica.com/event/Dunkirk-evacuation

[Erik L]

Consider this an official warning. Play nice. Don't insult one group of people or another. If you must insult someone, insult the Cylons (damn toasters). Don't make me bring out the ban trout.

[Kristover]

Just to weigh in on the discussion, I'm a retired US Army Officer who served with the French in Afghanistan and Africa and studied at the French Joint Staff College in Paris.  Believe it or not, I have actually discussed this issue with French officers and have some perspective to share.   

1. The idea that the French aren't brave or see fights through isn't even remotely accurate.  The French historically have fielded some of the most professional and powerful armies in the world and it wasn't just the Napoleonic Wars.  French armies have been kicking ass for over a thousand years - if you go to the Musée de l'Armée (highly recommended, it is one of the best military museums in the world) you'll see that these guys have lineages to extend all the way back to Roman times.  It has already been mentioned here as well but WWI wasn't won by the US or the UK, it was won by millions of French soldiers trading punches with one of the best armies in history - seriously, the armies of the Kaiserreich were amazing.  And WWII the French soldier fought bravely and fiercely where ever they took the battlefield. 

2. The origin of the French being cowardly comes from a particular form of American arrogance.  The first combat action in Europe were US Army troops fighting Vichy French in North Africa and that didn't endear the Commanders there.  It was compounded later by French military leaders often having different aims and goals at key stages during the campaign - hell, most of the French officers I spoke with agreed that De Gaulle was kind of a prick.  And then there was our involvement in Vietnam where the initial waves of American advisors and troops were derogatory of the French defeat by the primitive NVA and Viet Cong until we learned our lesson that they were kind of tough.  And then there was the French electing not to participate in Operation Iraqi Freedom.  Any of y'all remember, 'Freedom Fries' and they other derogatory French insults?

3.  Just from my professional aperture, the French are great fighters and we owe a debt to them.  I know this won't be a popular statement with many of my UK friends but having served with both, the French Army was a better and more capable Army.  Brits are great with really good leadership to boot but cautious and deliberate to a fault in my professional opinion.  The French were always down for a fight and when they committed to being involved - and keep in mind the French have different national policy objectives than the US - they were some of the most insanely brave and aggressive fighters I saw.  That is also historically accurate for French Armies - you might be 'better' on paper but the French were going to fight you.  If I had to find a fault with them is that they have great junior leaders and some really excellent senior officers but they lack a bit in the middle ranks....they weren't bad at all it was just compared to the middle ranked staff officers of the US I thought they lacked some of the skillsets we cultivate among our own.  But bottom line, if I had to pick three armies in the world to fight with, my choices would be the French, the Australians, and Koreans.

[kilo (OP)]

Ok, sorry guys. My intention has never been to insult any French players of the game and I did not expect that the infamous 8 weeks in 1940 would hurt you guys so much.

I will look into editing the title. It will not happen again.

[Zap0]

ITT: How to get triggered by a stereotype.

Do you still have a save from before they surrendered? It'd be interesting to know if they had low determinisim/militancy or a stat like that and if they would react differently if you cranked them up.

[Garfunkel]

So the actual mechanic is that once a colony surrenders in a system, there is a chance for every and all ships in the system to surrender alongside the colony. Ships in systems without colonies will not surrender until the very last colony of that NPR surrenders and in some cases not even then.

This can lead to Bad Things to you as well because if you're fighting in a system with your colony in it and your colony gets bombarded hard, it will surrender to the enemy and might cause some of your ships in the system to flip sides alongside it.

[kilo (OP)]

ITT: How to get triggered by a stereotype.

Do you still have a save from before they surrendered? It'd be interesting to know if they had low determinisim/militancy or a stat like that and if they would react differently if you cranked them up.

I think I destroyed the game without a backup. There is an error message every time the time progresses after I did two things.
1. I halved the research speed
2. I unloaded a ground unit which was on one of the captured troop transports to Earth and it went missing.

But as far as I know it is not the species that did the surrendering but only one fleet, which jumped into one system.

[Zap0]

So the actual mechanic is that once a colony surrenders in a system, there is a chance for every and all ships in the system to surrender alongside the colony. Ships in systems without colonies will not surrender until the very last colony of that NPR surrenders and in some cases not even then.

I didn't even know colony surrender could make ships elsewhere in the system surrender. Clearly I need to invade more xenos! But I thought they surrendered to a ship, not a colony invasion event.

I think I destroyed the game without a backup. There is an error message every time the time progresses after I did two things.
1. I halved the research speed
2. I unloaded a ground unit which was on one of the captured troop transports to Earth and it went missing.

But as far as I know it is not the species that did the surrendering but only one fleet, which jumped into one system.

Oh well. Sounds like something was wrong with the transport that broke it's references to which empire it's troops belong or somesuch, that sounds hard to replicate.

[kilo (OP)]

So the actual mechanic is that once a colony surrenders in a system, there is a chance for every and all ships in the system to surrender alongside the colony. Ships in systems without colonies will not surrender until the very last colony of that NPR surrenders and in some cases not even then.

This can lead to Bad Things to you as well because if you're fighting in a system with your colony in it and your colony gets bombarded hard, it will surrender to the enemy and might cause some of your ships in the system to flip sides alongside it.

I did not attack any colonies. I just met these guys when expanding outward from Earth or to be more precise, they found me as they jumped into a system in which I installed a bunch of listening posts. My bet is they are the starting NPR, as they were bringing survey ships, jump point stabilization ships, laser cruisers and troop transports.
At the moment I was simply backtracking their route they took with the intention of finding their home world by monitoring jump points. The engagement happened minutes away from a jump point in a system that has no habitable planets at all.