Survey Vessels

[wildfire142 (OP)]

What is people opinions on survey vessels is it better to have one class that can do both geological surveys and gravitational surveys or is it better to have separate classes?

Personally I think later in the game with bigger vessels one class could do both jobs but to start with two smaller classes works better.

[Steve Walmsley]

What is people opinions on survey vessels is it better to have one class that can do both geological surveys and gravitational surveys or is it better to have separate classes?

Personally I think later in the game with bigger vessels one class could do both jobs but to start with two smaller classes works better.

I am using separate vessels. The problem with a combined ship in cost terms is that half of the expensive sensors will always be inactive. However, a combined ship ship would be a lot more flexible.

Steve

[wildfire142 (OP)]

i'm also starting off with two seperate classes but I'm finding that they are spending to much time idle.
I intend to create a jump capable dual purpose survey ship at some point to see how it fairs.

[vergeraiders]

I'm using seperate ships. Deployed in groups of 6. So far I've found that JP surveys take less time than complete system body surveys.

I'm satisfied thar generally the Geo ships need less speed than the Grav ships. The spend much more time making short trips between system bodies.

I have created a jump capable resupply ship. Its can jump escort the Hunters, but not the stalkers.

Mike S.

Hunter B class Science Vessel    2650 tons     230 Crew     989 BP      Signature 53-207
3905 km/s     Armour 1     Shields 0-0     Sensors 0/0/0/10     Damage Control 0-0
Supply 400  
Ion Engine PB-15 AR-0 (3)    Armour 0    Exp 16%

Advanced Geological Sensors (5)   10 Survey Points

Stalker B class Survey Ship    4850 tons     420 Crew     1627 BP      Signature 97-483
4979 km/s     Armour 1     Shields 10-300     Sensors 0/0/16/0     Damage Control 0-0
Supply 400  
Ion Engine PB-15 AR-0 (7)    Armour 0    Exp 16%

Advanced Gravitational Sensors (   16 Survey Points

Caravan class Jump Tender    3750 tons     400 Crew     708 BP      Signature 75-414
5520 km/s    JR 3-50     Armour 1     Shields 0-0     Sensors 0/0/0/0     Damage Control 0-0
Supply 3200  
Ion Engine PB-15 AR-0 (6)    Armour 0    Exp 16%

[Michael Sandy]

A more serious question would be whether you have a dedicated Jump tender for the Grav survey ships, and a different one for the Geological Survey ships.  Especially if the survey fleets have different speeds.

I like the idea of filling out the Jump Tenders space with Engineering systems, for more supply capability.  How fast can Supply points be transferred?  There is an indicator for how long it takes to load cargo holds and cryo tanks, but I do not recall where it says how long Supply points take to load.

I think it is crucial that at least one ship in a survey fleet have good sensors.  Perhaps I am reading too much into the fate of the Terran Union jump tender, but I think the Jump Tender at least should have good sensors.  After all, if someone wishes harm to the survey fleet they can either try to chase down very fast survey ships, loiter on the waypoints, or block the way out.

By putting decent active and passive sensors on the Jump Tender they have better chances of detecting a drive field down ambush at a warp point.

I do agree that the Jump Tender should be as fast as possible.

[vergeraiders]

>I think it is crucial that at least one ship in a survey fleet have good >sensors...

Generically I agree - however I just found the first traces of another civilization so I hadn't much armed any of my exploration ships. That could change. I also didn't realize that active and passive sensors were not automatically included in my first round of designs, or even developed for that matter

I'm undecided about dedicated jump escorts for groups, though I think this will happen as ships star exploring farther from home. I'm finding out that exploration and survey goes much faster than colonization.

11 years (of which I spent the first 2 just researching and building, and 2 most inefficently exploring before I found the split command!) with 1 extra-solar colony but about 15 systems explored - one chain out to 5 jumps from the home system.

Survey jump tenders with supply is also a consideration, the one resupply ship is working ok for now - just another form of specilization - it doesn't need to be that fast as the average rate of travel of the survey squads is very small. And all my Jump Crusiers have 400 supply points so thay can serve as mini resupply points if needed.

6 ships is a very good number of ships in a grav survey squad.

Mike S.

[wildfire142 (OP)]

I'm trying out this design of survey vesel to see how well an jump capable grav and geo survey ship works.

Warlock class Survey Cruiser    8000 tons     750 Crew     2316 BP      Signature 160-528
3300 km/s    JR 4-100     Armour 1     Shields 0-0     Sensors 12/9/8/8     Damage Control 0-0
Tractor 5   Supply 1600  
Ion Engine Mk 1 PB-10 AR-0 (    Armour 0    Exp 12%

Passive Sensor  Mk 1 S3-12 (1)     Strength 12     Detect Signature 10: 1.2m km     Detect Signature 100: 12m km
Active Sensor Mk 1 S3-9 (1)     Strength 9     Detect Size 10: 0.9m km     Detect Size 100: 9m km
Advanced Geological Sensors (4)   8 Survey Points
Advanced Gravitational Sensors (4)   8 Survey Points

[Michael Sandy]

This does not look like a cost efficient design.
Also, I am not familiar with Jump Engine notation.  That jump engine looks too small to move the ship, and a jump engine large enough to move that ship would be much more expensive.

Steve, can you put a warning in the software if you install a jump engine that is too small to move the ship it is installed in?  I just checked.  The design thingy gives no warning that the jump engine size is smaller than the ship size.

[vergeraiders]

>Also, I am not familiar with Jump Engine notation. That jump engine looks too small to move the ship,

Actually it would be nice if the JE design project automatically included the max tonnage it can handle in the design line.

It can be added by hand - but that will make it hard to compare designs.

I've taken to adding 5000 (or whatever) to the designation to show tonage.

Mike S.

[wildfire142 (OP)]

This does not look like a cost efficient design.
Also, I am not familiar with Jump Engine notation.  That jump engine looks too small to move the ship, and a jump engine large enough to move that ship would be much more expensive.

Steve, can you put a warning in the software if you install a jump engine that is too small to move the ship it is installed in?  I just checked.  The design thingy gives no warning that the jump engine size is smaller than the ship size.

The jump engine can handle up to 8000 tons which is why it's that size.
It may not be economic which is why I'm experimenting with designs. It's designed for long endurance missions of about 2-3 years between resupply.

[Michael Sandy]

With survey ships, the big design consideration is to make sure you are spending as much time as possible with the survey sensors in use.

There is no way to use grav sensors and geo sensors at the same time.

If you are finding that your survey ships are idle too much, perhaps you need more jump tenders.

If you send two size 75 jump tenders with your survey fleets you can have the grav survey in one system while the geo survey is in another.

If they are operating in the same system, you can run communications further back towards the homeworld.  And you can probe two warp points at the same time, saving, potentially, on travel time for the survey ships.

I suspect that part of the problem isn't efficiency, it is bookkeeping.  It is easier to keep track of dual-purpose survey ships and to give them orders.  If the name of the ship clearly indicates its purpose, it will be easier to look up and give appropriate orders to it.

[Steve Walmsley]

This does not look like a cost efficient design.
Also, I am not familiar with Jump Engine notation.  That jump engine looks too small to move the ship, and a jump engine large enough to move that ship would be much more expensive.

Steve, can you put a warning in the software if you install a jump engine that is too small to move the ship it is installed in?  I just checked.  The design thingy gives no warning that the jump engine size is smaller than the ship size.

The 4-100 in the notation shows a max of 4 ships in the squadron that can jump up to 100,000 kilometers from the jump point. There is no notation for the jump engine size as it is assumed the designer will add one large enough for the ship. The ship design window already has a warning if the jump engine is too small for the ship size.

Steve

[Michael Sandy]

Oh.  I just double-checked, and yes, it gave the warning.

The 4 ship squadron and 100,000 km jump distance are _definitely_ unnecessary expenses for a non-combat survey vessel.

[wildfire142 (OP)]

I only designed one type of jmp drive to start with so it got fitted to all ships.
it may not be using both types of sensors at once but it will be using at least one most of the time. My normal useage is enter new system start some on mineral survey and some on jump point survey then move which ever finshes first on to the other, repeat on next system etc.

[Steve Walmsley]

Oh.  I just double-checked, and yes, it gave the warning.

The 4 ship squadron and 100,000 km jump distance are _definitely_ unnecessary expenses for a non-combat survey vessel.

While that is true, each new jump drive you design costs research time so it can be better to design one jump drive and then use it for different ships, including some that may not make full use of its capabilities.

Steve