Building by committee

[Theodidactus (OP)]

I had a lot of fun a few years ago when I tasked myself to construct a suitably epic "megaproject" and build a nearly self sufficient science vessel which would lead to a lot of RP fun. The trouble was, real life interfered before I could actually use it much. I had considered redoing that but where's the fun in doing the same thing over and over again. Plus, it doesn't really suit the atmosphere of this campaign.

Instead, I need something else to occupy my time, and because I have no clue how to build it, I will need your help.

This is prompted by a real, in-game need, but makes for a good RP scenario as well.

It's 2147 and the past 5 years have lead to explosive growth of the military/industrial complex in terran space. The human species seems (mostly) united behind a common mutual defense alliance called the Concordance of Worlds. The agreement is simple: each colony develops in relative isolation, but the Concordance maintains an absolute monopoly on space based weaponry, and doesn't interfere with the colonies in any way. unfortunate circumstances lead to the destruction of the fleet's command ship about 5 years ago, and prompted significant military reforms. The concordance has grown in power and has assumed responsibility for policing all space within 20 Light years of Groombridge 34, a star system that sits nearly equidistant between the centers of the three dominant space empires in this area of the galaxy.

I would like this system to be the new center of my campaign, though it is actually quite far from terran space. (probably 1 month from earth). I would like to support my most powerful battlefleet out of this system, as well as maintain stores of fuel, supplies, and ammunition.

Here's the problem: there's no planets in Groombridge, at least, none that are in the center of the system.

So, I need to build a starbase which will function as the military command headquarters of my might space armada. I would also like to do it with minimal cheating, though i am ruling that some might be allowed. This station will police the space of the commune of Achird, a wealthy and powerful trader race that has a completely ineffective space military. I've saved their chitinous butts on numerous occasions and I figure they'll be more than happy to contribute some minerals and construction points to this project.

The concordant has decreed that the project must be complete by 2155. Specifications forthcoming.

[Theodidactus (OP)]

specs:

- The station itself must be a permanent or semi-permanent  fixed structure or group of structures that need only minimal replacing and upkeep
- the station cannot have an anchor given its geography
- It needs to have hanger space for 100,000 tons of starship. We would like to field a missile cruiser (25,000 tons) 2 destroyer escorts (combined 30,000 tons), a battlecruiser (25,000 tons) and a ranger (15,000 tons) as well as about 5,000 tons of dedicated fightercraft.  
- It needs to carry at least 10,000,000 gallons of fuel (I think the commune of Achird is going to pick up the fuel costs and this tank will always be magically full)
- It needs to have magazine storage enough to reload the ships it stores and possibly any operating carriers in the region, so, 1,000 missile size points of munitions
- It needs to have a size-30 thermal sensor and a size-30 active scanner, which will enable it to see virtually every ship in the center of the system
- It needs to have some defensive system of its own, I believe I could easily fit 9-12 large-bore double-barreled laser turrets on this monstrosity.
- It needs to have space for a luxury passenger module, and a flag bridge.

As I understand it, the best way to build this thing would be a modular design of some kind. The largest military construction facilities i have can build 50,000 ton modules, civilian ones can go up to 125,000. So, I believe the modules would be:

- 3 40,000 ton hanger modules, each with 10,000 tons of support stuff, including most likely the turrets, their fire controls, power plants, and magazines
- 2 120,000 ton civilian recreation modules, as I understand it, you need two. Might be enough room for luxury modules as well
- 1 large tanker module, which might also carry a bunch of supplies, probably 80,000 tons
- a "command" module with a flag bridge, sensors, and possibly an antimissile system, might be significantly smaller than the hanger modules
- several very long range tugs.


Is this design even feasible? Will it fall apart in 2 years? should i just rewind the clocks every 2 years and say the commune of achird is servicing it? Has anyone built a starbase this big before in a "real game"...how did you maintain it?

I understand maintenance modules can't be used to upkeep the station itself as they themselves would require maintenance.

[Theodidactus (OP)]

modular design seems necessary given that it will need constant upkeep, as I don't think I can feasibly have a module last longer than 5 years. The easiest solution seems to be to move a ton of maintenance facilities to the closest possible planet, along with some civilian tugs, and periodically overhaul modules once every 5-7 years or so. The closest planet is a Kruger 60 colony controlled by an allied alien race...they may be a little angry at me commandeering their south pole in the service of this cause, but I don't think it will start a war.

[Haji]

Considering you want to have 100 000T of boat bays and your largest military yard has 50 000T capacity then yes, you have no choice but to build modular 'station'.

The closest planet is a Kruger 60 colony controlled by an allied alien race...they may be a little angry at me commandeering their south pole in the service of this cause, but I don't think it will start a war.

I don't really know that much about how NPR reacts, but I'm pretty sure that making colony on a planet they already own will begin to deteriorate relations, possibly quite fast and lead to war (eventually). A good enough diplomatic team may (or may not) offset that.

Also I have a question: is there any asteroid near the A component or is it completely barren? Because it's feasible to make a full scale, self sufficient base on an asteroid that would support your fleet.

Now to the main problem. Unless you have a nearby body, you won't be able to make permanent or semi-permanent base. Worse, as far as I can remember there is no SM option to just rewind the clock (I may be wrong about that). So your base will be forced to have an overhaul every so often. In addition I'm not sure the recreation module is working, so intended deployment time will be an issue as well.

[Black]

Recreation module needs body with colony to work.

[Erik L]

Recreation module needs body with colony to work.

Does the colony need a population? Or can you get by with habitation modules?

[Black]

Does the colony need a population? Or can you get by with habitation modules?

I believe that empty colony is enough. Then ship with recreational module should work.

[Theodidactus (OP)]

well if I need a body then this is a real problem, because Groombridge A is completely deserted. There are of course many bodies that are orbiting groombridge B, but recall that this system requires months to fly through.

It's a crying shame if this will really require some body, because this location is about the most flavorful I've seen in Aurora, almost exactly equidistant between my empire, my allies empire, and my enemy's empire, and along the busiest freighter lane in space.

Ah well, I'm sure a suitable asteroid can be found in some nearby system...

[Barkhorn]

You CAN build a station that maintains itself.  Maintenance modules are civilian, so you can just cram as many maintenance modules as you need to maintain the military segments of the station in the civilian sections.  Since the civilian sections never need maintenance, you don't have to worry about the fact that the maintenance modules can't repair themselves.

[Theodidactus (OP)]

well yes and no, the problem is morale, since recreation modules require a body to operate, which i was not aware of.

[Haji]

Actually if my memory serves it's the maintenance modules that require a body for sure. I seem to remember that recreational module does operate in deep space, but sometimes it's not working at all - buggy in other words.

There is a good news (kinda). I was trying to build a carrier module for one of your battlecruisers and turns out it has maintenance life of 0.0 years. It took me a while to figure it out - while magazines and boat bays/hangars are military they do not break. In short, you can have a military installation with infinite life span. As such you could make bases/large hangars for your ships and you could just put them anywhere in deep space and they would not require maintenance. However, I did not try it, so having infinite maintenance life on a military object may lead to bugs/errors. Also other modules (like the one with sensors) will need overhaul. Here's an example of what I'm talking about:

Code: [Select]

Battlecruiser Support Module class Maintenance Base    48 550 tons     675 Crew     5334 BP      TCS 971  TH 0  EM 0
1 km/s     Armour 4-118     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 41     PPV 0
Maint Life 0 Years     MSP 2815    AFR 459%    IFR 6.4%    1YR 0    5YR 0    Max Repair 12 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 240 months    Flight Crew Berths 0   
Hangar Deck Capacity 25000 tons     Magazine 3300   

Fuel Capacity 5 000 000 Litres    Range N/A

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
It has magazine space to re-arm your vessel (even if it's armed with box launchers) and fuel storage. It should be noted that I personally consider this something of an exploit and it should probably be reported as a bug.

[Black]

Well there is original info on recreational module from Steve: http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php/topic,4835.30.html (next to last entry).

can tour bases or anchorages to provide

I believe that means that it needs colony to work. Same as Asteroid Miner or Maintenance Module.

It is unfortunate because I would be very happy to be able to construct self sufficient space stations.

[Theodidactus (OP)]

Seems to be a moot idea: the maintenance modules necessary to support a 40,000 ton hanger are about 500,000 tons. Prohibitively large.

There are no viable bodies within groombridge or its neighboring systems, save 1 asteroid that might work within the home system of my ally, and I don't think they'd take kindly to a foreign military base. Looks like we're going with the "stupifyingly large command ship" option.

[Wolfius]

There is a good news (kinda). I was trying to build a carrier module for one of your battlecruisers and turns out it has maintenance life of 0.0 years. It took me a while to figure it out - while magazines and boat bays/hangars are military they do not break. In short, you can have a military installation with infinite life span. As such you could make bases/large hangars for your ships and you could just put them anywhere in deep space and they would not require maintenance. However, I did not try it, so having infinite maintenance life on a military object may lead to bugs/errors. Also other modules (like the one with sensors) will need overhaul.

That's the solution, then.

Build one hangar module with nothing that can break due to maintaince failure, that has a hangar large enough to accept any of the other military modules. IIRC you can then stick the other military modules into it to overhaul them as needed.

Deployment time is still an issue, but it's not that expensive to design ships with century-long deployment times.

[Vandermeer]

Recreation module needs body with colony to work.

well yes and no, the problem is morale, since recreation modules require a body to operate, which i was not aware of.

"A" body is true. They definitely do not need a colony, as I have seen them operate at jump points when my jump gate builder (with recreation module) was busy and I got message from his returning escort that they had enough shore leave. Seen this on many many occasions since then, as every of my freighters is big and has such a thing. Anyway, you will have a jump point in the system, so this will work for you. Probably even the sun is enough, if anything needed is some sort of reference point.
///Nevermind, I just tested it with waypoints in void space in 6.4, and yes, it works perfectly. My fighters gained clock, but no morale loss. Now celebrate!

Actually if my memory serves it's the maintenance modules that require a body for sure. I seem to remember that recreational module does operate in deep space, but sometimes it's not working at all - buggy in other words.

Yupp, sometimes they just don't work for no reason. I once had a recreation capable terraforming module above a planet, and it would still get increase in crew stress. However, when I also dragged a sole-purpose fuel module there into the same task group, it suddenly worked... . Same happened to fuel harvester bases, which needed to have such a fuel module around to work with crew morale (the fuel module didn't have such a thing itself btw.). For some reason I guess there is sometimes a giver-receiver necessity before anything starts. ..Yet, in my newest game I basically built the same terraforming module from above again, but this time it worked just fine hovering over uninhabited worlds... .

Seems to be a moot idea: the maintenance modules necessary to support a 40,000 ton hanger are about 500,000 tons. Prohibitively large.

*1,000,000 tons
The factor is 25 for that a 5000 ton module supports 200 tons of military. ..And that is just the maintenance module, so some extras on top of that.


Interesting information from Haji there for the hangars. I had already tested this and thought it didn't work, but now I have to check again, for I must have made some mistake somewhere.(..I assume I accidentally placed ciws on board)