Does his work? 91 simultaneous salvos, on 1000t

[Iranon]

I haven't been able to test this yet as I'm currently having some technical issues.
The theory: If I rely on missiles, I'm normally a big proponent of massive salvos from box launchers to oversaturate enemy anti-missile defence.
But there is something better than large salvos: An even larger number of missiles (on the same tonnage) in single salvos, arriving in the same increment.

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Cheetah class Fast Attack Craft    1 000 tons     5 Crew     242 BP      TCS 20  TH 320  EM 0
16000 km/s     Armour 1-8     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 1
Maint Life 0 Years     MSP 0    AFR 200%    IFR 2.8%    1YR 23    5YR 343    Max Repair 21 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 0.1 months    Spare Berths 5   
Magazine 91   

32 EP Magneto-plasma Drive (10)    Power 32    Fuel Use 336.02%    Signature 32    Exp 20%
Fuel Capacity 100 000 Litres    Range 5.4 billion km   (3 days at full power)

Size 1 Missile Launcher (1)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 10
Missile Fire Control FC61-R80 (1)     Range 62.0m km    Resolution 80
ASM-1 Sloth (91)  Speed: 16 000 km/s   End: 72.1m    Range: 69.2m km   WH: 2    Size: 1    TH: 101/60/30

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

I hope to achieve this by matching missile and platform speed - very slow missiles fired by a fast ship. This one may take 15 minutes to empty its magazines during an attack run (over a distance of 13.5m km, cutting significantly into its effective range)... but they should all arrive on target at the same time, in single missile salvos, rendering most defences comically ineffective.

There are probably many things wrong with the particulars of the design... but is the basic principle sound?

[83athom]

Sure it would work, until a single shot hits and disables the ship instantly.

[MarcAFK]

Unless you shove sensors onto the missiles. Honestly fighter or fac launched anti capital missiles should be sensor equipped anyway because of how vulnerable the launch platform is.
Of course AMMs should have sensors too for maximum efficiency against overwhelming salvos or when used offensively.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

That's a pretty cool alternative to box launchers.  Too bad it only works with size 1-2 missiles! At least in terms of putting out a really big salvo.

[MarcAFK]

The other alternative is massive MIRV salvos.

[linkxsc]

Well.... TBH, this actually probably isn't tht bad of an idea.

Think of it this way, assuming you start your attack run at your max missile range (lets say you have something else providing your active sensor ping). lets round it to 60mkm for ease.

1 missiles fired once every 10 seconds, means 900 seconds to fire the whole supply (910 - 1,10 sec increment because you don't need to reload the first shot)
900 seconds @ 16,000km/s is ~14mkm. Assuming you started the run at 60, the ship will finish its firing at around 45m, and turn away.

91 shots out, which give or take a bit, would only fit about 50-60 equal sized box launchers. Which NEED a hangar to reload, as opposed to a collier which can support the OP's design without needing to be very much larger than the FAC itself.
Also to note, is that it will be in 91 separate target salvos coming in that need interception, As opposed to a single 60missile salvo, that the defenders fire control will have no trouble engaging.


Personally, I really like this idea, its kinda nifty, and I might be trying it out myself for the lulz, once 6.5 comes. Personal revisions I would make however.
Since I experiment the most at the ion tech it'd probably be around there.
Maybe stack a few launchers on the craft (4-5) with a tiny magazine with only a couple reloads, And build an equally sized collier, that makes the attack run with a handful of these craft, and can burn through the ammo supply in about 10 salvos rather than 90. This way your attack run is only ~160kkm, and your craft can turn back long before they made it anywhere near detection range.

Also by giving them a few more launchers of their own, this allows them to see other usage as AMM launching craft, if direly necessary (can feed off the AMM stock of a bigger ship, or collier)

[sneer]

this is a very bad idea
any PD weapon can cover this missile threat
16km/s missile without salvo density in magneto era means no hits unless there is real swarm of such FACs ( with a such swarm better to do bigger design for economy reason )
magneto era means 16km/s tracking gauses or 5-7km/s tracking railguns
if you use small crafts you want to stay in danger zone as short as possible not 15 minutess ....
also boxes means salvo density and guarantee something can leak through defence

[TheDeadlyShoe]

boxes are like 15k rp from standard launchers, if not more.

so that's like this with magneto plasma, versus ion tech with boxes

[Iranon]

Sure it would work, until a single shot hits and disables the ship instantly.

Details!
Of course we could slap some armour on... or take some precautions to avoid being shot at.
Slow missiles have a lot of flexibility. If I don't blow 40% of missile weight on a 2-damage warhead, I can easily get 150-200m range with some space left over for more agility. Even if we lose 10% effective range to our peculiar attack run, that should be a safe distance for FACs. Of course, this would require a more powerful missiles fire control and probably cost us a magazine.

Maybe stack a few launchers on the craft (4-5) with a tiny magazine with only a couple reloads, And build an equally sized collier, that makes the attack run with a handful of these craft, and can burn through the ammo supply in about 10 salvos rather than 90. This way your attack run is only ~160kkm, and your craft can turn back long before they made it anywhere near detection range.

Also by giving them a few more launchers of their own, this allows them to see other usage as AMM launching craft, if direly necessary (can feed off the AMM stock of a bigger ship, or collier)

Thanks for the encouragement. While your suggestion would shorten the attack run, multiple launchers would sacrifice some of the salvo dispersion that was a main reason for this approach.
I only chose 1000t FACs for a high ratio of magazines to launchers/FC, which in turn requires a long attack run and limits a secondary role as AMM escorts... if that trade-off is not desired, I'd simply use smaller ships (possibly fighters).

this is a very bad idea
any PD weapon can cover this missile threat
16km/s missile without salvo density in magneto era means no hits unless there is real swarm of such FACs ( with a such swarm better to do bigger design for economy reason )
magneto era means 16km/s tracking gauses or 5-7km/s tracking railguns
if you use small crafts you want to stay in danger zone as short as possible not 15 minutess ....
also boxes means salvo density and guarantee something can leak through defence

1) If this works as intended, the finest beam defence in the universe it will shoot down exactly 1 missile per fire control in final fire mode. AMMs will be similarly useless unless they have truly impressive R1 sensors. A unified volley of 91 missiles in 91 salvos may overtax the PD capabilities of a small fleet, pathetic missile speed is irrelevant to this (they'll shoot down anything they target, but they can't target them all). And they come from a single FAC...
2) A bigger design would be more visible. FAC was chosen over fighter because it enables multiple magazines per launcher/FC.
3) Duration of the launch procedure isn't relevant, range-to-target when we fire the last missile is. The 15 minute attack run for 90 reloads costs us 10-20m km effective range (depending on target movement, we cover 14.4m during it). Maybe we need longer-ranged missiles and FCs to launch from a comfortable distance, but "15 minutes in the danger zone" is a red herring.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

1) If this works as intended, the finest beam defence in the universe it will shoot down exactly 1 missile per fire control in final fire mode. AMMs will be similarly useless unless they have truly impressive R1 sensors. A unified volley of 91 missiles in 91 salvos may overtax the PD capabilities of a small fleet, pathetic missile speed is irrelevant to this (they'll shoot down anything they target, but they can't target them all). And they come from a single FAC...

well, the low missile speed actually is a problem. a fast magneto-plasma warship might go 4500-6000 m/s, which constitutes a massive increase in engagement time when reduced from the missile speed.  it's plausible you might even be able to use fast escorts in area beam defence mode to get more shots off. 

and ofc there are ships faster than 16kkm/s out there

[Prince of Space]

You might be able to get around the slow missile speed by using two-stage missiles: the first is a slowish stage that allows the FAC to keep pace, and the second is a zippy little missile that separates from the first stage after the FAC's magazine has been emptied, but before the salvos get engaged by the enemy AMMs. The combined stage will probably be larger than your current missiles, but they may get more warheads onto the target in the end.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

oh, incidentally. you may suffer some salvo fragmentation depending on enemy movement, initiative, etc.   hard to say how it would fall out in practice.

[sneer]

5-6km/s speed on magneto era warships is not rare
so it has 30-40%hit chance ? and low speed is working as intended ?
slow ships - fast missiles are understandable but reverse ?

[TheDeadlyShoe]

well, with a slow missile you could afford a lot of agility.

[chrislocke2000]

How many do you expect to be deploying at any one time?