Author Topic: C# Aurora Changes Discussion  (Read 441733 times)

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Offline Hazard

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #1215 on: December 22, 2017, 05:06:42 AM »
While there's no issue with the rebels lagging behind in TN tech, mostly because you don't need high TN level tech to handle slave labourers so the guards won't be equipped with it, if possible one can base their tech level on the factory/mining tech level, representing inefficient but dangerous repurposed industrial equipment.

A rebellion should be able to convert camps to factories and mines at some ratio though, should they manage to take control of the planet. Leave them alone for long enough and you might find an unpleasant result...
 

Offline TCD

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #1216 on: December 22, 2017, 08:35:15 AM »
A rebellion should be able to convert camps to factories and mines at some ratio though, should they manage to take control of the planet. Leave them alone for long enough and you might find an unpleasant result...
I imagine the rebels would be treated as a standard NPC who could take control of the planet?

I suppose Steve will need to create rules for what happens when either the player or NPCs capture camps. Maybe you have the option to close down any camps, gaining the 100k population, but costing wealth to pay for their rehabilitation? Or maybe camps are automatically destroyed in an invasion as the inhabitants take advantage of the fighting to escape.
 

Offline alex_brunius

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #1217 on: December 22, 2017, 09:36:34 AM »
I'm director of business analytics at PokerStars, which is a large online gaming company. It's a reasonably well-paid job that I really enjoy. Because we are based on an island most of the staff live relatively close together, so there is also a great social life. If I worked full-time on Aurora, I can see several issues:

1) I might get bored if that was my full-time job. I appreciate the time that I do get to spend on Aurora, but that appreciation might disappear with unlimited time.

2) I have had three previous hobbies that turned into jobs and they were never as much fun once they become my day job. That is why I haven't tried to make money from Aurora, to avoid the same situation.

3) It would be a fairly solitary existence, apart from my family. In my current job (almost 7 years now), it is all about personal interactions (well, with some analytics thrown in :) ), and I would miss that.

I'm in a similar situations, and what I am looking to do is to go down to 3-4 workdays a week on my regular job and start working "officially" 1-3 days a week with my hobby, allowing me to earn some money on it from home but still don't be alone and without a social life, or that my hobby turns dull. Ofcourse that depends on if the situation at your day job would allow that.

The best way to earn a bit of money from Aurora would probably be to release it as early access on Steam for €5-15, and this might also let you improve the UI, Graphics, Music by spending some of the income on hiring a few more resources to work on the areas you don't like if it sells alot of copies.

It's a bit of a shame that your fans can't spend money that could be used to improve the game if you ask me.
 

Offline Person012345

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #1218 on: December 22, 2017, 10:20:37 AM »
Releasing it on steam would be a categorically terrible idea.
 
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Offline Barkhorn

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #1219 on: December 22, 2017, 10:46:17 AM »
What about setting up a patreon like Dwarf Fortress uses?
 
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Offline alex_brunius

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #1220 on: December 22, 2017, 03:00:07 PM »
Releasing it on steam would be a categorically terrible idea.

Yes, because if you want to sell anything it's categorically a terrible idea to sell it where 95% of all customers go to buy those things?  ??? ::)
 

Offline Erik L

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #1221 on: December 22, 2017, 03:48:12 PM »
It's a bit of a shame that your fans can't spend money that could be used to improve the game if you ask me.

I'm fairly certain if you send money to Steve, he won't object. :)

Offline Erik L

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #1222 on: December 22, 2017, 03:49:51 PM »
I also seem to recall Steve saying he did not want to do something like that since then it would become a job and he'd be accountable to the users. As is, it is a hobby. :)

Offline AngrySnwMnky

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #1223 on: December 22, 2017, 03:50:58 PM »
Quote from: alex_brunius link=topic=8497. msg105722#msg105722 date=1513976407
Yes, because if you want to sell anything it's categorically a terrible idea to sell it where 95% of all customers go to buy those things?  ??? ::)
I think the point is that Steve doesn't want to sell it.   Selling something means customers and customers are demanding.   
 

Offline alex_brunius

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #1224 on: December 22, 2017, 05:05:15 PM »
I think the point is that Steve doesn't want to sell it.   Selling something means customers and customers are demanding.

In which case he wouldn't want to earn money from it so he wouldn't follow the advice I gave either... Whats your point here?

I'm fairly certain if you send money to Steve, he won't object. :)

I do recall sending some money to help maintain the website already some time ago, which I do consider the next best thing to spend money improving the game considering how much great input from the forums Steve puts in the game.

If I had half as well paid job as he does, and I'd know it would help him spend alot more time on the game as a result I'd probably consider sending some more as well directly to him, but I suspect neither of that would be the case here.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2017, 05:06:50 PM by alex_brunius »
 

Offline swarm_sadist

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #1225 on: December 22, 2017, 10:10:57 PM »
I think the point is that Steve doesn't want to sell it.   Selling something means customers and customers are demanding.

Yeah, and we are demanding enough as it is.
 

Offline Person012345

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #1226 on: December 22, 2017, 10:48:01 PM »
I think the point is that Steve doesn't want to sell it.   Selling something means customers and customers are demanding.

Yes and actually the "95% of people going there" IS the problem. Steam is full of people who don't understand development under the best of circumstance, that is full time devs who are putting everything into producing a polished game. Let alone a game with 1 dev that is known to be buggy and not finely balanced and with a learning cliff as steep as dwarf fortress (maybe even moreso) but is generally let slide because the community is quite forgiving due to the casual nature of development, the relatively small and helpful crowd and a number of other things.

Steve himself has said he doesn't want to go full time and the game would get torn apart if just put out into the general audience with a price of admission like that. It would turn the community toxic as we get flooded by newbies all asking the same questions over and over and people get tired of it and it would really necessitate steve working on the game full time and spending a bunch of time and effort on tedious fine-tuning of balancing regardless of whether he wants to or not. And there would be a lot of complaints (if you think putting a disclaimer in the description will stop that you're dreaming) regardless, which may discourage interaction with the community which wouldn't be good and all this may even lead to the death of the game.

So in short, it would be a terrible idea imo. Whilst what I said above may sound like doomsaying and maybe I was a little more pessimistic in tone than I intended, ultimately I think you'll find that this would be the result and it would likely ruin or kill the game. Steam is NOT the platform for a game like this even if you were going to sell it (which steve says he doesn't want to do anyway).
« Last Edit: December 23, 2017, 03:42:56 AM by Person012345 »
 

Offline Tuna-Fish

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #1227 on: December 23, 2017, 07:30:37 AM »
So, my current campaign is a bit bogged by micromanagement, and I couldn't help but think that three orders would greatly reduce the necessary amount of clicks.  In order of importance:

1.  Tractor any ships.

Available on a fleet that contains at least one ship with tractor beams when targeting any other fleet.  When the fleet arrives at the target, every ship with a tractor beam in it attempts to tractor one ship from the target (in any order).  The order succeeds and execution of order list continues if at least one ship was tractored, if no ships were tractored (or target fleet no longer exists, etc) the order list of the fleet is cleared and a message is printed.

Rationale: Moving 200 terraforming satellites is a total pain currently, as you have to do many clicks per each satellite.  With this, you could set up the target fleet, take your tug fleet, order "tractor any ships at old terraforming fleet -> release tractored ships at new terraforming fleet" and hit repeat and the entire terraforming fleet gets moved (eventually).

2.  Unload cargo.

Available for fleets with any cargo space (possibly only if something occupies that space at this point in orders?) when targeting anything with any cargo space or a colony.  Attempts to unload everything from own cargo space to target.  Succeeds if after the order there is nothing in own cargo space (even if there was nothing to start with!), fails with message and order clearing if after this there is still something loaded.

Rationale: reduces clicks when moving around various stuff.  Allows the use of a single order to guarantee that after that the cargo space is clear.  No more fleets moving minerals with a third of their capacity because you forgot to unload that one jump gate construction module!

3.  Load any ship components

Available for fleets with some cargo space when targeting a colony.  Loads the cargo space full of any ship components (regardless of type) from the colony.  Succeeds if at least one component was loaded, fails with message if none were.

Rationale: right now, moving a random assortment of ship components takes a lot of clicks.

Would there be any chance of having something like those for C# Aurora?

 

Offline Steve Walmsley

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #1228 on: December 23, 2017, 11:33:47 AM »
In terms of Steam, selling the game, etc., I want Aurora to be a hobby, rather than a job. As soon as I start trying to sell it, then I have certain obligations to support the customer base. I try to do that now but I don't have to. From my perspective, as soon as you have to do something, it is a job or a chore. When you can choose to do it, it is a hobby. Besides, if my goal was money, there are a lot easier ways to make money than developing a niche game for a relatively tiny audience :)

I know it might seem that full-time game developer would be fun. However, I've have been a professional musician (in the 1980s) and a professional poker player (from about 2004 - 2010), two jobs which were a lot of fun initially, but after a few years I eventually got bored of both and moved on to something else. I've also been a full-time developer before (C++ in the early nineties) and again I moved on to something else. Keeping Aurora as a hobby, and only having limited time to develop and play it, is what keeps me interested. I am very concerned if I worked on it full time, I would eventually lose interest.

BTW, if anyone wants any more details on the background and inspirations for Aurora, I did an interview with Rock, Paper, Shotgun a few years ago.

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/11/21/interview-aurora-the-4x-sci-fi-dwarf-fortress/#more-177034
 

Offline albertismo

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #1229 on: December 26, 2017, 04:53:57 AM »
Quote from: Steve Walmsley link=topic=8497. msg105740#msg105740 date=1514050427
there are a lot easier ways to make money
as example??  ;D