Author Topic: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions  (Read 345053 times)

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Offline Hazard

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #90 on: March 11, 2018, 06:27:37 PM »
I have considered this in the past as well, plus fuelling civilian ships from civilian harvesters. It adds a lot of complexity around civilians though and it is probably not worth it. The proposal about Duranium for infrastructure does add a useful extra dimension though as it slows down civilian growth and adds meaningful decisions for players regarding the construction of infrastructure.

It breaks consistency with TN materials not actually being important to civilians and instead more of an abstract that can be used as a cash cow or useful source of minerals. I mean, Civilian Mining Colonies are worth 10 Automated Mines, but Automated Mines cost 120 Duranium and 120 Corundum each so that's 2400 in minerals right there for each CMC. Building civilian ships would require Duranium (structural components), Sorium (fuel, which is not tracked for civilians except for sale to the civilian market), Neutronium (shipyards to build all those ships and bases), Mercassium (Crew quarters/life support) and Gallicite for the engines. And there's those free garrison units that you get in VB6 and most likely will still get in C# which cost Duranium and Neutronium.

It would be easier to explain if (LG-)infrastructure is just expensive to build in terms of wealth and time with no TN material component or by removing it from the player constructed buildings list and instead be allowed only to buy it from the civilian market with transportation orders. For that matter, make acquisition of market acquired infrastructure by civilians cost wealth in general, easily explained as the planetary government subsidizing transportation or local production of infrastructure, and add a button that lets the player decide if a colony is allowed to receive infrastructure in this manner.
 

Offline the obelisk

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #91 on: March 13, 2018, 08:55:25 PM »
You'd have to link civilian ship production to mining of other materials as well and work out more of the civilian economical background activity.
That would be nice though.  A more robust economic model seams like it should mean the possibility for more differences in the economies of different empires, both in the same game and in different games.

Agreed.  At present, I would argue that Aurora is already extremely unrealistic in terms of the level of detail and control that a single individual (the player) has over the empire.  Even (especially?) autocrats have to cope with bureaucrats who don't do as they're told. 
It seems to me that in any game like this, where the workings of government aren't really explored, the assumption is that you're playing as either the government in general or the nation/empire in general, rather than the president/dictator/king (and in fact, in the case of the Civilization series I'm pretty sure that's explicitly stated).
« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 09:02:41 PM by the obelisk »
 

Offline TMaekler

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #92 on: March 15, 2018, 08:23:54 AM »
Whilst the missile loadout for a ship usually does not change that often, it does for ammunition transports. So I suggest to enable ships which function as an ammunition transport to have several loadout variations - and when giving a command to resupply from a stockpile, you can choose which loadout variation should be loaded - would also be helpful if you only use one design of ammunition transport which resupplies all the different classes of ships you have and not having to manually supply on each reload... .
 
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Offline Laurence

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #93 on: March 16, 2018, 11:33:16 AM »
I kind of like the struggling part of conventional starts. Wish that it was modeled in even more details with chemical rockets ( low fuel / inefficient ) more conventional techs, and so on

I agree on enjoying the Conventional start. I especially like running multiple nations competing as they convert to the new technology, and would also like more options for conventional level technology as well.
 

Offline Shuul

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #94 on: March 16, 2018, 05:28:06 PM »
May i suggest to add a fighter/missile/ship production modules, so that they may be added to habitats? I always wanted to play a space-bound civilization with habitats only. Or build ships like GSVs from "Culture" series by Banks.
 

Offline Conscript Gary

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #95 on: March 16, 2018, 05:32:24 PM »
Current behavior: Asteroid Mining Modules only operate in orbit of a colony on an asteroid or comet.
Suggestion: Use the gravity of a body to determine whether or not Asteroid mining Modules can extract from it- possibly rename the module, and maybe add a tech line to increase the tolerance.
 
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Offline TMaekler

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #96 on: March 17, 2018, 11:43:19 AM »
Are there any plans to modify the UI? I am thinking of the system view, where the billions of names of all the objects clutter the readability. How about an option to hide them - and then when you mouseover over a circle, it shows the name... sounds a bit Stellaris? Indeed... But it helps keeping what is visible readable...
 

Offline Zincat

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #97 on: March 20, 2018, 03:28:07 AM »
Following my posts here
http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=9861.msg107310#msg107310
I will re-post my suggestions to improve civilians, in a way that they are more consistent.

Steve's latest changes to civilian trade and movements of installations are a step in the right direction, but in my opinion they are not enough.
IF one plays with the civilians, I do not have that much of a problem with "Phantom fuel and minerals" that the civilians seem to be able to obtain. I too have always roleplayed it as the civilians getting their hands of low-grade TN minerals that the state does not see as "pure enough" to use. Although I don't like it, it's the least "offensive" way to think of the situation.

Specifically however, I think the following capabilities should be added, in order to flesh out the civilians more:
- The ability to ship everything the nation asks for. Minerals, installations, trade goods, ship parts.
- The ability to prioritize a cargo transfer request, if the nation pays more. In that case a civilian ship should ignore other possible routes, and just go and ship that one thing
- The ability to interdict civilians from certain places. If I don't want civilians to go into a system for whatever reason, I should be able to block them. If not, I'll blow them up. Because I refuse to lose my civilization because idiot civilians went into a system with an invader wormhole while I'm trying to lay low. Roleplay is everything.
- The ability to subsidize a planet's production of certain trade goods, if I want to do so, or to avoid the production of certain trade goods. Because when I roleplay an autocratic nation, I should definitely be able to do so.
- A more proportionate civilian fleet, based on the size of the nation / of the number of colonies / of the size of those colonies. Because no matter how rich a shipping line is, it makes no sense for them to create many ships if all I have is a 2 million colony on the Moon. I am unsure if Steve already added something along these lines.
- The existence of "shipping line shipyards". Because it makes no sense that shipping lines can create ships from nothingness. They need to have their own "company shipyard", which can also be blown up. It should cost wealth and time for them to rebuild it if it gets blown up.

I think all these would definitely be steps in the right direction.
 
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Offline Barkhorn

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #98 on: March 21, 2018, 02:26:57 PM »
Suggestion, Better flesh out the lives of officers: 

1)  Let them change type in a believable way.  The specific one I'm thinking of is to allow military officers to become civilian administrators.  History is full of examples of military leaders become government officials.  Like Eisenhower going from Supreme Commander of the European Theater to President.  Maybe also allow them to go the other way, so you could have something like Richard the Lionheart on crusade.  Starts as king, becomes a general and goes to war, and if he isn't killed in battle can come home and go back to being king.

2)  Have some officers be the children of other officers.  That's happened plenty of times throughout history too; basically every monarch and plenty of democratic leaders too.  You wouldn't need to keep a whole family tree, we can do that if we want.

3)  Give us a "Memorial Wall" of sorts.  Basically, retain the histories of important officers, and allow us to issue posthumous medals and promotions.  I think a good definition of "important" would be any officer killed in battle or via black hole, any officer who lead any team, any military officer who's ship/unit did damage, any scientist who discovered a tech, and any civilian administrator who lead a colony greater than some population threshold.
 

Offline ardem

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #99 on: March 21, 2018, 09:48:15 PM »
I like the idea of a memorial wall. I think this is great sometimes when they die and disappear straight away, I miss the details when I did the fiction, it made it harder.So +1 for a memorial wall.
 

Offline TMaekler

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #100 on: March 22, 2018, 10:30:33 AM »
It was discussed some time ago to "transfer" those people who die into a separate DB-table so you can see their final values and experiences for AAR. At the moment it is quite annoying when you read in the log that someone died, so you have to go into a DB backup to see details on that person.
However, I don't recall if that will be in C# or not... Steve?
 

Offline Needler

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #101 on: March 22, 2018, 05:22:50 PM »
A small mod for civilian lines, I'd like a Step or Increment function added to transport of installations.

IE: Supply: 5xConstruction Factories Step 1 
           Would put 1 factory in the queue and then upon DELIVERY (not pickup) would put the next factory in the queue.

      Supply: 5xConstruction Factories Step 2 
           Would put 2 factories in the queue and then upon DELIVERY (not pickup) would put the next 2 (or remainder) factories in the queue.

I'm tired of wrecking my civilian trade and infrastructure transport just to move some relatively low priority colony upgrades.
 

Offline TCD

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #102 on: March 23, 2018, 08:30:48 AM »
A small mod for civilian lines, I'd like a Step or Increment function added to transport of installations.

IE: Supply: 5xConstruction Factories Step 1 
           Would put 1 factory in the queue and then upon DELIVERY (not pickup) would put the next factory in the queue.

      Supply: 5xConstruction Factories Step 2 
           Would put 2 factories in the queue and then upon DELIVERY (not pickup) would put the next 2 (or remainder) factories in the queue.

I'm tired of wrecking my civilian trade and infrastructure transport just to move some relatively low priority colony upgrades.
For this exact case wouldn't it be easier to just build a cargo ship of your own? Civilian transport is useful but I'm not sure it's supposed to be a full replacement for building your own ships.
 

Offline Steve Walmsley

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #103 on: March 23, 2018, 10:39:45 AM »
For this exact case wouldn't it be easier to just build a cargo ship of your own? Civilian transport is useful but I'm not sure it's supposed to be a full replacement for building your own ships.

Yes, this is true. Civilian traffic is happening alongside your empire. It is not intended to be something over which you have direct control or a replacement for your own shipping. My original aim was to have civilians as a part of your economic base that will require defending if your empire comes under attack. They should be difficult to defend but important enough to require the effort. Plus they are intended to grow all colonies to make your empire more interesting (and again, add defensive responsibilities).

You can offer government contracts, which the civilians will fulfill, but the price you pay beyond the immediate contract cost is the disruption of the civilian economy. Decisions need both advantages and disadvantages or they aren't decisions.

Equally, civilians will avoid a recent war zone but you can't force civilian traffic into a particular area by banning everywhere else. In the real world, you can't close all oceans except the North Atlantic for example. You can effectively enforce trade sanctions by shutting down any trade treaty though.

In summary, I will avoid any measures that give direct or effective control of civilians to the player.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2018, 10:44:40 AM by Steve Walmsley »
 
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Offline Barkhorn

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #104 on: March 23, 2018, 11:11:55 AM »
What about allowing civilians to transport everything the player can, with the possible exception of missiles and ground troops?

In real life, the US military doesn't transport rare earth metals in from Africa, even if they are strategically important.