PD modes and independent guidance

[bean (OP)]

I've been trying to figure out how the integrated PD system works.   When I set it on automatic, I tend to see a lot of weapons losing targets.   This has provoked the following questions:
1.  How exactly does the PD system prioritize targets?  I've heard that it's by closest salvo, then largest (either size of missile or number in salvo), but I'd like confirmation.
2.  The above, if applied individually to each PD system, would mean that the entire TG would target a single salvo.   This obviously doesn't happen.   How are targets allocated amond various fire controls and various ships in the fleet?  In other words, why am I overkilling so much?  (I have a couple of theories.   First, I was shooting bus CMs at 1v1, so it's possible these were follow-up salvos.   I've asked for a 1 CM/salvo button to fix this.   Second, if the target switched fire control, it could have the same result).   

I was operating under the mistaken assumption that missiles needed independent terminal guidance systems, so all of the CMBs launched during the battle had resolution 1 sensors, usually in the 10k km range.   I was running for the jump point, and the enemy was directly behind me, firing salvos of size 6 missiles.   
Why do I recount all of this? Of the dozens of CMBs that lost targes, I don't believe a single one picked up a new target dispite being in the middle of the incoming missiles.   I thus assume that independent sensors only pick up targets during the 5-second break, but I'd like confirmation before posting a suggestion to change that.
The above brought a question to mind.   If a bus loses lock, and picks a new target, do it's submunitions need independent sensors?  What if it's outside of fire control?  What about bouys?

[Hawkeye]

You have to use the PD settings on the Battle Window (F8)

If you set a Missile Firecon to 2 AMMs per target missile. it will fire 2 missile against each enemy missile in range. The settings is fleet-wide, meaning, if you have 5 escorts with two PD-Missile Firecons with 5 launchers assigned each and 3 Salvos of 12 missile each in range, your fleet will launch 24 missiles against the closest salvo, 24 missiles against the second salvo and the remaining 2 missiles against the third salvo. As soon as the launchers reload, another 22 AMMs will be launched against the third salvo. As your missiles start to intercept the enemy salvos, they will destroy some, some will miss. Any missile, not targeted by 2 missiles after this, will have new AMMs launched against it again.
Closer salvos take priority (100% sure)
If several salvos are at the same distance, larger salvos/missiles take priority (not 100% sure)

10k sensor range is way too little for AMMs. IMO, sensors on AMMs are not worth it. Better invest in more agility/speed and improve to-hit chance.
You only need sensors on missiles, if
a) The original target gets destroyed
b) The ship firing gets destroyed

[Brian Neumann]

Currently there are only a couple of times in a 5 second round when sensors check for possible targets.  If the missiles have a short range sensor then they will probably not see the new salvo of incomming missiles.  For things to work out right you will want the range of the onboard sensor to be about equal to 10 seconds of flight time.  This will allow for the minimum 5 seconds of flight time for both the counter missiles and the incomming salvo's to move.  This is also the reason that putting a sensor on the counter missiles just is not generally worth it untill you are at a very high tech level.

For the bus launched missiles the individual submunition will need to have their own sensors that can see the target when they are released only if the original target was a waypoint, or the original targeting fire control loses the range/is destroyed.

Brian

[bean (OP)]

I know where the PD settings are, but I do have a question.   What would be the result if there were ships with different PD numbers in the fleet?  How would that work? 
And I do know not to have sensors on my CMs now.   

[Hawkeye]

What would be the result if there were ships with different PD numbers in the fleet?  How would that work?   

Doesn´t matter. Aurora will simply launch missiles until each enemy missile is assigned the appropriate number of AMMs

[bean (OP)]

Appropriate according to who?  Would the 1v1s launch until there was 1v1, then the 2v1s take over, and so on?

[Erik L]

On the F8 screen you should see near the upper right corner the point defense area. This allows you to select a ratio for AMM (1v1, 2v1, 3v1, etc) as well as engagement ranges for non-missile/non-CIWS PD weapons.

Note - You can layer your defenses (and this is highly suggested). You can also mix missile ratios on different classes/ships.

[bean (OP)]

I figured that much out.  What I was wondering was, for example, the answer to this:
I have two fire control systems.  One is set for 1v1 at 5m with 4 launchers.  The other has it at 2v1 for 1m with 6.  There are three incoming salvos, at .5m, 1 m and 3 m.  Each contains 4 missiles.  How many missiles target which salvo from the first launch?  What about the second?  And so on.

[Erik L]

I figured that much out.  What I was wondering was, for example, the answer to this:
I have two fire control systems.  One is set for 1v1 at 5m with 4 launchers.  The other has it at 2v1 for 1m with 6.  There are three incoming salvos, at .5m, 1 m and 3 m.  Each contains 4 missiles.  How many missiles target which salvo from the first launch?  What about the second?  And so on.

Without actually gaming it out, my gut says that when the first salvo crosses the 5m mark your 1v1 salvo launches 4 missiles. When the salvo reaches the 1m mark, the second launcher group pops out 6 missiles, and on it's next reload increment fires 2 more.

This process is repeated for each incoming salvo.

My gut also says your AMM will be swamped. Of course, I don't know what your tech is like, but 1v1 is usually not overly effective.

[bean (OP)]

That answers my question, then.  I was just using it as an example.  Though 1v1 works fine when you're shooting busses.  Actually, it works too well.

[Brian Neumann]

1v1 also works very well at high tech levels.  I have seen agilities of 140%, so they can hit a target going about 1/3 faster without any problem.  Of course at that tech you can't get the missile to fly faster as it is already close to speed of light.

Brian

[ZimRathbone]

It really depends on (1) the relative to hit % of the AMM to the inbound (2) the number of defending launchers vs the no of inbounds in each wave and (3) the frequency of the inbound waves compared to your AMM ROF (running away from the enemy helps with this)

I quite often have good results in 1 vs 1 engagements, even if dealing with relatively small numbers of missiles (say 3+ defending launchers per inbound).  My escort groups usually have AMMs capable of engagement out to the range of the size 6 R1 sensor, usually with 10 launchers per fire control (size 2 to match with the sensor), and also always have a beam armed backstop for final intercepts.  At one point I experimented with using small beam armed ships as pickets (a small distance out from the main body) but found that in most cases that inbounds could cover their entire engagement range in 1 pulse and that even if they didnt the intercept shot was at much poorer to hits than I could get if I kept the escorts in with the main body on final defensive fire.  Missile armed pickets worked a little better but were quite vulnerable to being picked off by fighters/gunboats.

In my experience, you're almost always better off with 1 vs 1 unless you vastly outnumber the inbounds AND they have a high closing speed  causing you to have fewer than 3 intercept cycles AND your AMMs have poor to hit probabilities.

[Brian Neumann]

Another factor that can be very important is what you want your missile pd to do.  Are they the primary point defense for your fleet, or do you have heavy beam pd with decent chances to stop the missiles.  For the second option what I want my missile pd to do is to thin out the incomming salvo's.  This way the beam pd then kills what got through and I don't waste to many expensive missiles.

Brian