Combat issues

[Kamilo (OP)]

Hello together,

somehow I'm having problems with the combat and I'm sure I'm doing something wrong, obviously.

My PD dosen't seem to work. I'm using gauss turrets and I'm seeing the incomming salvos too. The BFC are on final defensive fire. I can't tell them to open fire because as soon as I click on the 'open fire all', it turns to 'cease fire all' and when I click on the ship again it shows 'open fire all' again.

Also it dosen't seem to copy to the whole fleet as well. I read in the changes, that PD fires automatically, but my gauss cannons are not firing at all.

[Jorgen_CAB]

Hello together,

somehow I'm having problems with the combat and I'm sure I'm doing something wrong, obviously.

My PD dosen't seem to work. I'm using gauss turrets and I'm seeing the incomming salvos too. The BFC are on final defensive fire. I can't tell them to open fire because as soon as I click on the 'open fire all', it turns to 'cease fire all' and when I click on the ship again it shows 'open fire all' again.

Also it dosen't seem to copy to the whole fleet as well. I read in the changes, that PD fires automatically, but my gauss cannons are not firing at all.

One thing that sometimes are forgotten is to actually set the aliens to "Hostile" on the Intelligence screen. Are incoming missile red on the map or some other colour?

[Kamilo (OP)]

The salvos and ships have a green-ish colour.

I checked and I have set them on ‘neutral’ and not hostile, so maybe that is the problem. I will try it.

[Jorgen_CAB]

The salvos and ships have a green-ish colour.

I checked and I have set them on ‘neutral’ and not hostile, so maybe that is the problem. I will try it.

That is probably your problem... if they are not hostile you can't target them and your PD will not fire automatically either.

[mike2R]

The salvos and ships have a green-ish colour.

I checked and I have set them on ‘neutral’ and not hostile, so maybe that is the problem. I will try it.

That is probably your problem... if they are not hostile you can't target them and your PD will not fire automatically either.

Should this be a bug report?  It seems hard to think of a situation where opening fire on the incoming missiles would not be the desired behaviour

[Kamilo (OP)]

The salvos and ships have a green-ish colour.

I checked and I have set them on ‘neutral’ and not hostile, so maybe that is the problem. I will try it.

That is probably your problem... if they are not hostile you can't target them and your PD will not fire automatically either.

Should this be a bug report?  It seems hard to think of a situation where opening fire on the incoming missiles would not be the desired behaviour

Maybe, because I never heard of friendly incomming salvos of 50 missiles. Correct me if I’m wrong.

[DoctorDanny]

Could be they are sending you lots of these Hawaian flower necklaces?

[Jorgen_CAB]

The salvos and ships have a green-ish colour.

I checked and I have set them on ‘neutral’ and not hostile, so maybe that is the problem. I will try it.

That is probably your problem... if they are not hostile you can't target them and your PD will not fire automatically either.

Should this be a bug report?  It seems hard to think of a situation where opening fire on the incoming missiles would not be the desired behaviour

Maybe, because I never heard of friendly incomming salvos of 50 missiles. Correct me if I’m wrong.

No... that can happen if YOU don't set THEM as hostile... they obviously flagged you as hostile....   

[Jorgen_CAB]

The salvos and ships have a green-ish colour.

I checked and I have set them on ‘neutral’ and not hostile, so maybe that is the problem. I will try it.

That is probably your problem... if they are not hostile you can't target them and your PD will not fire automatically either.

Should this be a bug report?  It seems hard to think of a situation where opening fire on the incoming missiles would not be the desired behaviour

The program is done that way if you have other NPR or factions in the same position... you will not know what ships are targeted until they impact. If you are not involved in that conflict you don't want to shoot at the missiles now do you?!? 

[mike2R]

The salvos and ships have a green-ish colour.

I checked and I have set them on ‘neutral’ and not hostile, so maybe that is the problem. I will try it.

That is probably your problem... if they are not hostile you can't target them and your PD will not fire automatically either.

Should this be a bug report?  It seems hard to think of a situation where opening fire on the incoming missiles would not be the desired behaviour

The program is done that way if you have other NPR or factions in the same position... you will not know what ships are targeted until they impact. If you are not involved in that conflict you don't want to shoot at the missiles now do you?!? 

I think i take the "shoot them all down and let God sort it out" attitude to missiles within my FDF PD range

Maybe different rules for AMM fire, or even area fire, but FDF should shoot IMO unless the missile is allied IMO.  Especially since the first indication that a newly discovered race is hostile is frequently the missile fire they send your way...

[Jorgen_CAB]

The salvos and ships have a green-ish colour.

I checked and I have set them on ‘neutral’ and not hostile, so maybe that is the problem. I will try it.

That is probably your problem... if they are not hostile you can't target them and your PD will not fire automatically either.

Should this be a bug report?  It seems hard to think of a situation where opening fire on the incoming missiles would not be the desired behaviour

The program is done that way if you have other NPR or factions in the same position... you will not know what ships are targeted until they impact. If you are not involved in that conflict you don't want to shoot at the missiles now do you?!? 

I think i take the "shoot them all down and let God sort it out" attitude to missiles within my FDF PD range

Maybe different rules for AMM fire, or even area fire, but FDF should shoot IMO unless the missile is allied IMO.  Especially since the first indication that a newly discovered race is hostile is frequently the missile fire they send your way...

I understand that... but from a game play perspective there need to be a choice... so currently the implementation is that you as a player have to decide if you want to consider the alien hostile or not by flipping the switch.

I do think however that CIWS will always fore no matter what though.

[Kamilo (OP)]

The salvos and ships have a green-ish colour.

I checked and I have set them on ‘neutral’ and not hostile, so maybe that is the problem. I will try it.

That is probably your problem... if they are not hostile you can't target them and your PD will not fire automatically either.

Should this be a bug report?  It seems hard to think of a situation where opening fire on the incoming missiles would not be the desired behaviour

The program is done that way if you have other NPR or factions in the same position... you will not know what ships are targeted until they impact. If you are not involved in that conflict you don't want to shoot at the missiles now do you?!? 

I think i take the "shoot them all down and let God sort it out" attitude to missiles within my FDF PD range

Maybe different rules for AMM fire, or even area fire, but FDF should shoot IMO unless the missile is allied IMO.  Especially since the first indication that a newly discovered race is hostile is frequently the missile fire they send your way...

Exactly, what are the chances that a salvo a few kms away from you is not targeting your ships. Modern fighters also get a notice if they are targeted by a missile.

[Jorgen_CAB]

The salvos and ships have a green-ish colour.

I checked and I have set them on ‘neutral’ and not hostile, so maybe that is the problem. I will try it.

That is probably your problem... if they are not hostile you can't target them and your PD will not fire automatically either.

Should this be a bug report?  It seems hard to think of a situation where opening fire on the incoming missiles would not be the desired behaviour

The program is done that way if you have other NPR or factions in the same position... you will not know what ships are targeted until they impact. If you are not involved in that conflict you don't want to shoot at the missiles now do you?!? 

I think i take the "shoot them all down and let God sort it out" attitude to missiles within my FDF PD range

Maybe different rules for AMM fire, or even area fire, but FDF should shoot IMO unless the missile is allied IMO.  Especially since the first indication that a newly discovered race is hostile is frequently the missile fire they send your way...

Exactly, what are the chances that a salvo a few kms away from you is not targeting your ships. Modern fighters also get a notice if they are targeted by a missile.

But there can be many scenarios you are not covering... the missiles are targeting another faction that are in the same spot or behind you and you are just in the path. If might even be fighters or FAC that you have not even detected.
Let's take another scenario... you get into a new system and meet an NPR at a planet. This NPR does not appear hostile... suddenly you have incoming missiles from another unknown NPR... now you have decision to make... will you wait and see who those missiles are targeting or not... you don't know if the two NPR is in a war with each other.

If the game flags any incoming missiles automatically as hostile you might accidentally fire AMM against a friendly faction. This is a game mechanic sort of reason why you need to make the decision if something is hostile or not... the game should not make that decision for you. A soon as you see the missiles you simply flag the race as hostile and not every missile from that race will be hostile until you flag them as neutral again.

It is semantic argument otherwise as it has to be flagged hostile at some point and all you are arguing for is if the game does it or you do. I think it is better if the player have the choice depending on the circumstances so there is no risk of accidental firing on the wrong thing.

[Pedroig]

Carrier Groups have two ROE's:

Intercept/Deter ROE range, this tends to be outside 75 miles of the group.

Destroy/Kill ROE range, this tends to be within 100 miles of the group.  (Which means there is 25 miles of "discretion")

Missiles with a vector of "incoming" should ALL be treated hostile unless shot by own/allied forces.

[mike2R]

Thinking about it, in VB6 I believe FDF fire would activate for missiles targeted at yours and allied ships, but not for those targeted at neutrals.  If this is correct, and still the case in C#, then canonically a missile's target can be identified at FDF range.  In this situation I don't think the diplomatic status of the race who fired the missile should be taken into account...

Maybe there could be a special exception for captains who are low scoring in everything except the Political Reliability bonus    "No! Hold fire! I must think of my career!  KABOOOM!"