Post reply

Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days.
Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic.

Note: this post will not display until it's been approved by a moderator.

Name:
Email:
Subject:
Message icon:

shortcuts: hit alt+s to submit/post or alt+p to preview

Please read the rules before you post!


Topic Summary

Posted by: TheDeadlyShoe
« on: May 29, 2012, 12:00:11 AM »

You don't need orbital habitats to make AMs work. You just need to not put engines on your mining platforms.  100kt-200kt commercial shipyards arn't that expensive, and they have other very useful applications (like divisional transports, fuel harvester platforms or superfreighters.)

Asteroid miners are particularly useful in the early game. But building tugs is a PITA. So I just stick tractors on various designs that tend to have powerful engines and sometimes idle about uselessly, such as colony ships and troop transports. 

In my current game, though, I've discovered virtually no worthwhile asteroids near Sol and the comets all sucked.  It's something like 40 billion km to the nearest worthwhile rock field. Urk. 
Posted by: Nathan_
« on: May 28, 2012, 11:37:02 PM »

Each unit of production takes 1 of the associated minerals and 1 unit of wealth, so those three are your bottlenecks. Ideally you'll expand all of them throughout the game, via colonization, research, automining colonies, and building more factories. I like to turn Mercury into a financial center, and truth be told mars would be a better fit for it, that tends solve my monetary crisis that I inevitably get into.

Habitat miners are basically the only way to compete with how useful freighter/automine combos are, especially since freighters can do other things and you'll want a bunch of them anyway. That said I played a game with no Automines and asteroid mines gained a new lease on life there(the game was painful in other regards since I limited myself to installation based terraformers as well).
Posted by: Redsyxx
« on: May 17, 2012, 09:42:31 AM »

It's funny with me being a newb, that as you said each game seems to be better than the last in terms of understanding.   I still have a lot to learn and many things I read on the forum etc. .  I have no idea how to go about them or how some things connect. . . .  but that in a sense is the fun and discovery of it.   I believe that DF and Aurora are to be played more like a unscripted story unfolding rather than trying to do x,y,z.   Once you begin to play that way, you risk more and losing does become fun as it is part of the story and overall less frustrating experience.

Posted by: Marthnn
« on: May 16, 2012, 09:37:41 PM »

Brings up the next question in this topic line.  What is the cost benefit/detriment of building your AM as a massive orbital via construction factories?
You would need bigger tugs to achieve reasonable speed. Big tugs take forever to build from a shipyard (my 30-engines tug takes 2.09 years), but they can be built faster (barely months) by prebuilding the engine components with factories. It transfers a lot of work from shipyards to factories for both the miners and the tugs, so you need to take that into account. Plus the habitat itself takes 250k tons, slowing the design with dead weight.

In my opinion, a habitat miner with 250+ mining modules and prebuilt tug engines would be worth it. Beats the huge shipyards. I still don't like habitats used in that way, but it's our only solution to assemble a huge mining/terraforming/whatever ship.

Aurora is letting you do anything, so evaluating if something is worth the time and ressources can be difficult. As of yet, I always make too many shipyards and expand them too much, but each new game is better than the previous. Reminds me of DF...
Posted by: xeryon
« on: May 16, 2012, 08:49:22 PM »

Brings up the next question in this topic line.  What is the cost benefit/detriment of building your AM as a massive orbital via construction factories?
Posted by: blue emu
« on: May 16, 2012, 05:56:02 PM »

Whoa, thanks for the number crunching, blue emu! I had already given up AMs completely because of their cost and slowness in mining but I had never tried 100k mining stations.

Since 5.70 is still some time away, I think I'll start a new 5.60 game and try them out once my civilian yards are big enough.

It's important to remember that Asteroid Miners are only useful on Asteroids and Comets... but in those specific cases, they do beat Auto-Mines in efficiency. And the larger you make them, the more efficient they are, since the percentage of parasitic weight is reduced.
Posted by: Garfunkel
« on: May 16, 2012, 04:42:44 PM »

Whoa, thanks for the number crunching, blue emu! I had already given up AMs completely because of their cost and slowness in mining but I had never tried 100k mining stations.

Since 5.70 is still some time away, I think I'll start a new 5.60 game and try them out once my civilian yards are big enough.
Posted by: Erik L
« on: May 15, 2012, 09:39:10 PM »

Of course, this all goes back to the original post. Your economy is going to be based on your individual needs at the moment :)
Posted by: blue emu
« on: May 15, 2012, 08:58:23 PM »

I've never had an asteroid that nice... Probably one reason I've not bothered with asteroid miners too much ;)

:D Eat your heart out...



... but even "average" rich deposits can pay for the whole Asteroid Miner construction program in a decade or so, and from then on its pure profit. Plus, of course, not all minerals are created equal... you might be short of a specific mineral (Gallicite, for example, for building Missiles) while still having loads of Duranium and Corundium.
Posted by: Erik L
« on: May 15, 2012, 08:52:06 PM »

I've never had an asteroid that nice... Probably one reason I've not bothered with asteroid miners too much ;)
Posted by: blue emu
« on: May 15, 2012, 08:40:46 PM »

I must have misread that bit.

Now take it a step further... what is the average mineral amount on an asteroid? And how long would it take to be mined out?

It varies way too much to categorize. Most Asteroids aren't even worth mining. But some are exceptionally rich.

In my current Conventional-start game, I have an asteroid with 215,000 Uridium (1), 129,000 Gallicite (1), 52,000 Vendarite (0.9) and 21,000 Duranium (0.9). Another with 83,000 Duranium, 85,000 Vendarite, 43,000 Neutronuim, 29,000 Boronide and 18,000 Uridium (all 0.9).

These deposits would be pretty decent for a Home World.

These are of course very rich Asteroids... but it only takes ONE of them to pay for your entire ship-building program.

Comets are more dependable, almost always having several deposits of tens-to-hundreds of thousands of minerals in the 0.8+ range.

Posted by: Erik L
« on: May 15, 2012, 08:28:56 PM »

Yes, the bolded part at the bottom of my post (above) assumes NO governors, ship captains, or techs... and it still beats Auto-Mines by 15-to-24 under those same conditions.

Naturally, both methods have advantages and disadvantages. Auto-Mines have a slower ROI, but can be used on planets and moons. Asteroid Miners are more efficient, but can only be used on Comets and Asteroids; and also require a shipyard.

I must have misread that bit.

Now take it a step further... what is the average mineral amount on an asteroid? And how long would it take to be mined out?
Posted by: blue emu
« on: May 15, 2012, 08:26:44 PM »

But as I was saying, you can't always count on captains or governors. Having one is icing, but shouldn't be included in the base calculation because it varies so much.

Yes, the bolded part at the bottom of my post (above) assumes NO governors, ship captains, or techs... and it still beats Auto-Mines by 15-to-24 under those same conditions.

Naturally, both methods have advantages and disadvantages. Auto-Mines have a slower ROI, but can be used on planets and moons. Asteroid Miners are more efficient, but can only be used on Comets and Asteroids; and also require a shipyard.
Posted by: Erik L
« on: May 15, 2012, 08:23:01 PM »

But as I was saying, you can't always count on captains or governors. Having one is icing, but shouldn't be included in the base calculation because it varies so much.
Posted by: blue emu
« on: May 15, 2012, 08:09:26 PM »

I usually don't fuss over the numbers. I mine asteroids & comets because I like to mine asteroids & comets.

Sure. This game is an excellent venue for role-play. On the Paradox forum, we had nearly 100 forum members "participating" in one of my single-player games, as warship captains, planetary governors, researchers, geologists, scouts, spies, diplomats, staff officers...

I usually make in-game decisions based simply on how I feel... but it's nice to know how the numbers work.