Posted by: vorpal+5
« on: December 04, 2020, 10:37:05 PM »My base unit size is 5000 (regiment), although I have independent 1000-sized battalions. 25.000 is a brigade, made of 4 regiments and 5000ish in size of attachment (mostly artillery).
A standard transport bay can carry 1000 tons of equipment, so I made my smallest units 1000 ton companies.
That's a good source of inspiration, but 1000t is much too small for your front-line formations. I recommend making everything 10× larger so that you only have to make and transport ¹???th as many formations.
Some people model down to individual squads, which are, like, 6 dudes.
A standard transport bay can carry 1000 tons of equipment, so I made my smallest units 1000 ton companies.
That's a good source of inspiration, but 1000t is much too small for your front-line formations. I recommend making everything 10× larger so that you only have to make and transport ¹???th as many formations.
A standard transport bay can carry 1000 tons of equipment, so I made my smallest units 1000 ton companies.
I too did some testing back then, with large forces shooting at each other. Regular bonuses were clearly visible, those of the superiors were not.
Anyway, this was confirmed as a bug for 1.11
http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=11565.msg135390#msg135390
Well that's good its a 25% drop off per level. If so your looking at 3 levels of HQ. As the 4th would only be . 0008 to . 0031 increase which is probably getting small enough to not matter expect in very large battles. While anything is possible i don't see the logic of it being 100% 25% 12. 5%, seems odd for it to vary it's rate of diminishing returns. Not sure how you would test it though, as most of the things commanders impacts don't show up as concrete values.
Sure, if you only have access to T5/T6 commanders then you stop at T5/T6, but that would be the same for any order of battles. The amount of T1 commanders wouldn't be any different from any other order of battle. So if your lacking T1 commanders you be lacking them in any order of battle. Not being able to specialize is a valid point.
I didn't see any fixes or changes to ground combat listed. We've tested it in 1.10 and no bonuses were passed in hierarchy back then.
The previous thread on this topic:
http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=11560
Second, if you are using auto-promotions then you may not have sufficient high-ranking generals to command a formation higher than T5 or T6, since every formation requires a commander who outranks any commanders of subordinate formations. Related to this, you will waste a number of leaders and/or HQ tiers - if your T2 commander is rank 2, then only rank-1 commanders can command the combat troops and rank 2+ leaders will compete for a single job at each rank; on the other hand, if you allow commanders of any rank below your highest to control T1 formations, then your highest-ranked commander will be at T2 and the higher commands will be useless. Finally, by placing a single commander (at each tier) above all formations you lose the ability to specialize - you could for example gain more benefits from grouping armor formations under commanders with high offensive and maneuver ratings, grouping infantry formations under skilled defensive commanders, and so on.
Finally, the last major problem with this HQ structure is research and build costs, which both increase linearly with the HQ command size with no upper limit. For example, if you have 50 battalions of 5,000 tons each, the HQ to control them all must have capacity 250,000 tons which will take 5,000 RP to research and 100 BP to build for each level of HQ (more if you want to armor them for added protection). For a single unit this isn't prohibitive, but you will have to continually re-make your HQ every time your forces increase in size to keep command over all units. Frankly, not only is it prohibitively expensive to research and build a HQ that can command your entire ground army, it's unnecessary - most people only build their OOBs with 2-4 levels/tiers unless they are RPing heavily and do not have a top-level command that controls all units. If for example you have HQs for 5,000, 20,000, and 75,000-ton command ranks, not only are these cheaper to research and build but the higher-level HQs which usually stay in the rear areas will rarely need to be upgraded since they do not have to grow as your army grows (smaller front-line HQs should still be upgraded for survivability of course).Well you probably have all the HQ be the same size so the player is only researching one unit (or 2 if you only want the last HQ holding supplies, but that's only if research isn't an issue). If having a large HQ with all units under it was effective, then in any order of battle you would be researching it. In fact you would end up saving research as you would only need 2 HQ, instead of a bunch of different sizes. Sure every once in a while you would need to up the size, but that would be the same for all ways to organize, if high level HQ where worth it.
T1 Formation commander: 100%
T2 Superior formation commander: 25%
That's easy enough. But has anyone tested whether it's
T3 Higher formation commander: 12.5%
OR
T3 Higher formation commander: 5% (which would be 25% of 25% of 100%)
because if it's the latter, then the bonuses go down to nothing really fast. If it's the former, then there is a mechanical advantage in having like 5 layers of HQs.
Also, as nuclearslurpee said, Commander bonuses vary - you want Defensive commanders for your Static and Infantry formations, Manoeuvre commanders for your vehicle formations, Artillery commanders for bombardment formations and so on.
Regimental HQ - 20k ton capacity, HQ only, 100 ton size
Infantry Battalion - 5k tons
Infantry Battalion - 5k tons
Armor Battalion - 5k tons
Artillery Battalion - 4,900 tons
In this case, the regiment commander gives 25% of his bonuses to four battalions for a net 100% bonus. That sounds good, however we can do better.Regimental HQ - 20k ton capacity, 100 ton HQ + 4,900 tons of artillery
Infantry Battalion - 5k tons
Infantry Battalion - 5k tons
Armor Battalion - 5k tons
In this case, since there are only three subordinate battalions the commander gives 25% of his bonuses to three units for a net 75%. However, in addition the artillery which is now directly under a commander gets a full 100% of the regimental commander's bonus, thus the grand total is 175% bonus which is much better than the above.Which means the most effective O/B would be the following
A single T9 HQ (full size of army)
->Supply Truck Formation(s)
->A single T8 HQ (Army size - supply size)
->->A single T7 HQ (Army size - supply size)
->->->A single T6 HQ (Army size - supply size)
->->->->A single T5 HQ (Army size - supply size)
->->->->->A single T4 HQ (Army size - supply size)
->->->->->->A single T3 HQ (Army size - supply size)
->->->->->->->A single T2 HQ with all med size AA guns(Army size - supply size)
->->->->->->->->Multiple T1 HQs (this is where ALL of the troops are)
So the O/B is less of a tree, and just a long line, only branching once you get to T1. It doesn't seem like any of the commanders effects do anything to supply trucks so they don't need any HQs. (logistical ability checks the unit firing not the supply truck if my understanding is correct)
Please someone tell me im wrong about this,