Author Topic: An Early look at my Navy; the core of my Cruiser Groups.  (Read 2905 times)

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Offline xenoscepter (OP)

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 --- As the title implies, these three ships form the core of my Cruiser Groups and serve as the most basic operational unit of them. Up to three more ships can be attached depending on what needs to be fought; although the "basic" configuration is: 1 Jester-Class, 1-Confederate-Class, 1 Intrepid-Class a Warrior-Class Destroyer and a two Arcadia-Class Carriers. All of them mass 12,500 Tons, move 6,000 km/s and provide enough fuel and life support for a five month deployment. Pardon the roughness; once I'm finished tweaking these, I'll write up that good fluff with named components and sane(ish) naming conventions. Leaning towards a fusion of Christian-themed, Greek Mythology-themed, and Norse Mythology-themed divvied up into three "series" of ships. Oh, and one of them will be named the Leviathan Class and one will be named the Apophis Class; FOR CHAOS!

 --- The Sentinel-Class Frigate which is a part of these can be found here, along with an interesting concept for a Railgun ship:

http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=10446.0


The Confederate-Class Cruiser:
------------------------------------


Code: [Select]
Confederate-Class Cruiser    12,500 tons     396 Crew     5726 BP      TCS 250  TH 360  EM 270
6000 km/s    JR 5-50     Armour 3-47     Shields 9-300     Sensors 90/90/0/0     Damage Control Rating 72     PPV 22.8
Maint Life 4.25 Years     MSP 3579    AFR 100%    IFR 1.4%    1YR 317    5YR 4762    Max Repair 1080 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 5 months    Spare Berths 4   

J12500(5-50) Military Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 12500 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 5
750 EP Internal Fusion Drive (2)    Power 750    Fuel Use 9.74%    Signature 180    Exp 7%
Fuel Capacity 670,000 Litres    Range 99.1 billion km   (191 days at full power)
Epsilon R300/288 Shields (3)   Total Fuel Cost  36 Litres per hour  (864 per day)

Single 10cm C3 Ultraviolet Laser Turret (2x1)    Range 120,000km     TS: 20000 km/s     Power 3-3     RM 4    ROF 5        3 3 3 3 2 2 1 1 1 1
15cm C3 Ultraviolet Laser (1)    Range 240,000km     TS: 10000 km/s     Power 6-3     RM 4    ROF 10        6 6 6 6 4 4 3 3 2 2
15cm C3 Ultraviolet Laser (1)    Range 240,000km     TS: 10000 km/s     Power 6-3     RM 4    ROF 10        6 6 6 6 4 4 3 3 2 2
15cm Railgun V8/C6 (2x4)    Range 240,000km     TS: 10000 km/s     Power 9-6     RM 8    ROF 10        3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 2
Fire Control S04 240-20000 H50 (2)    Max Range: 480,000 km   TS: 20000 km/s     98 96 94 92 90 88 85 83 81 79
Tokamak Fusion Reactor Technology PB-1.5 (1)     Total Power Output 24    Armour 0    Exp 35%

Active Search Sensor MR324-R100 (50%) (1)     GPS 18000     Range 324.0m km    Resolution 100
Active Search Sensor MR32-R1 (50%) (1)     GPS 180     Range 32.4m km    MCR 3.5m km    Resolution 1
Thermal Sensor TH5-90 (50%) (1)     Sensitivity 90     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  90m km
EM Detection Sensor EM5-90 (50%) (1)     Sensitivity 90     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  90m km

Compact ECCM-3 (2)         ECM 30

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes


 --- I have this design here as well: http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=10402.0 It isn't changed too radically, but rather it has been refined. Gotten the kinks worked out, so to speak. Big differences include the turrets, the Railguns being upped from 10cm models to 15cm models, less spare berths, stronger shields and better fuel economy. The B-FCS has also been radically altered, with the count dropped from 3 of 'em to just 2. The ship also uses 50% boosted reactor tech, because if you're going to die by reactor explosion you might as well be seen from the next galaxy over.

 --- The Confederate is still a generalist Cruiser, my main peace keeper, shipping savior and generally "do whatever" utility cruiser. This refinement offers the ability to bring two more ships along for the fun, up to a total of five, than it's previous iteration. It blends good speed with hard hitting weaponry, and wraps it all up in a platform which exhibits a good deployment range. The trade-off is light defenses; three layers of armor and strength nine shields aren't stopping much, although good HTK padding [3 Bridges, turreted lasers. etc.] and good Damage Control paired with adequate MSPs make the Confederate a robust class of ship. Thermal Signature Reduction of 50% and Electronic Hardening of 50% make the ship half as hot, as well as providing it with coin flip odds to survive an attack from an HPM.



The Intrepid-Class Light Cruiser:
--------------------------------------


Code: [Select]
Intrepid-Class Light Cruiser    12,500 tons     320 Crew     3495.4 BP      TCS 250  TH 360  EM 270
6000 km/s     Armour 3-47     Shields 9-300     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 72     PPV 28
Maint Life 4.18 Years     MSP 3150    AFR 101%    IFR 1.4%    1YR 289    5YR 4331    Max Repair 562.5 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 5 months    Spare Berths 1   
Magazine 558   

750 EP Internal Fusion Drive (2)    Power 750    Fuel Use 9.74%    Signature 180    Exp 7%
Fuel Capacity 670,000 Litres    Range 99.1 billion km   (191 days at full power)
Epsilon R300/288 Shields (3)   Total Fuel Cost  36 Litres per hour  (864 per day)

Triple Gauss Cannon R4-50 Turret (1x12)    Range 40,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 4    ROF 5        1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S00.7 60-12000 H50 (1)    Max Range: 120,000 km   TS: 12000 km/s     92 83 75 67 58 50 42 33 25 17

Size 6 Missile Launcher (3)    Missile Size 6    Rate of Fire 30
Missile Fire Control FC58-R1 (50%) (1)     Range 58.3m km    Resolution 1
Size 6 Anti-ship Missile (48)  Speed: 20,000 km/s   End: 47.2m    Range: 56.7m km   WH: 16    Size: 6    TH: 180/108/54
Size 6 Radiation Missile (9)  Speed: 5,000 km/s   End: 224.6m    Range: 67.4m km   WH: 8    Size: 6    TH: 16/10/5
Size 6 EM Passive Probe (9)  Speed: 3,300 km/s   End: 1.3d    Range: 363.1m km   WH: 0    Size: 6    TH: 11/6/3
Size 6 TH Passive Probe (9)  Speed: 3,300 km/s   End: 1.3d    Range: 363.1m km   WH: 0    Size: 6    TH: 11/6/3
Size 6 Active Probe (18)  Speed: 3,300 km/s   End: 1.4d    Range: 408.5m km   WH: 0    Size: 6    TH: 11/6/3

Active Search Sensor MR51-R1 (50%) (1)     GPS 288     Range 51.8m km    MCR 5.6m km    Resolution 1
Active Search Sensor MR102-R10 (50%) (1)     GPS 1800     Range 102.5m km    Resolution 10

Compact ECCM-3 (2)         ECM 30

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes


 --- This design is also featured here: http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=10319.0 However, unlike the Confederate, the Intrepid has been effectively re-built from the ground up. It serves in the Fire Support Role, while also contributing to the overall PD of the Task Group. It further furnishes the Task Group with an Anti-Missile sensor that doubles as an auxiliary sensor for target acquisition should the Intrepid find itself w/o support as well as an Anti-Fighter Sensor to complement the coverage of the Jester and Confederate. The model of Anti-Missile Sensor mounted on the Intrepid is functionally identical to the one found on the Jester, and helps to preserve operational integrity in the event of a Jester being lost. A single triple-mount Gauss turret housing 50-ton [1 HS] Gauss Cannons constitutes the PD element of the Intrepid, whilst a trio of Size-6 Missile Launchers provide the Fire Support component of the ship. The launchers can be fired at a rate of one missile every 10 seconds [2 increments] and are slaved to one M-FCS unit. 50% Electronic Hardening and a 30% ECM / ECCM suite for the ship and its Fire Controls add a layer of robustness to the ship, while the use of the same engines found on the Confederate means that the Intrepid also sports a 50% Thermal Reduction on all of it's emissions, effectively cutting them in half.


The Jester-Class Surveillance Cruiser:
--------------------------------------------


Code: [Select]
Jester-Class Surveillance Cruiser    12,500 tons     341 Crew     5661 BP      TCS 250  TH 360  EM 270
6000 km/s     Armour 3-47     Shields 9-300     Sensors 360/360/0/0     Damage Control Rating 32     PPV 21.6
Maint Life 3.34 Years     MSP 3538    AFR 100%    IFR 1.4%    1YR 481    5YR 7219    Max Repair 1080 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 5 months    Flight Crew Berths 24   
Hangar Deck Capacity 500 tons     

750 EP Internal Fusion Drive (2)    Power 750    Fuel Use 9.74%    Signature 180    Exp 7%
Fuel Capacity 790,000 Litres    Range 116.8 billion km   (225 days at full power)
Epsilon R300/288 Shields (3)   Total Fuel Cost  36 Litres per hour  (864 per day)

Single Gauss Cannon R4-50 Turret (6x4)    Range 40,000km     TS: 20000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 4    ROF 5        1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S04 240-20000 H50 (2)    Max Range: 480,000 km   TS: 20000 km/s     98 96 94 92 90 88 85 83 81 79

Active Search Sensor MR51-R1 (50%) (1)     GPS 288     Range 51.8m km    MCR 5.6m km    Resolution 1
Thermal Sensor TH20-360 (50%) (1)     Sensitivity 360     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  360m km
EM Detection Sensor EM20-360 (50%) (1)     Sensitivity 360     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  360m km

Small Craft ECCM-1 (2)         Strike Group
1x Harlequin Jump Scout   Speed: 10000 km/s    Size: 10

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes


 --- This is the Confederate's Sensor Support. It also provides additional PD and a single 500 Ton Jump Scout. All three of it's sensors are 1,000 Tons [or 100 HS]. It also sports the same 50% Electronic Hardening and 50% Thermal Reduction by virtue of the group's shared engine. The Jester only allocates provision for a 10% ECCM to it's B-FCS, to help counter Missile bourne ECM systems.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2019, 12:27:35 PM by xenoscepter »
 

Offline Michael Sandy

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Re: An Early look at my Navy; the core of my Cruiser Groups.
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2019, 03:06:01 AM »
6,000 km/s is slow for internal fusion beam ships.  8,000 km/s is what my ION railgun fighters do.

Also, the only reason to put a jump drive on a beam warship is if you EXPECT to do jump point assaults.  Or if there is a heavy RP element to solo ship operation.

I went the other way, I had NO ships capable of independent operation.  In my early years, no ship had both active sensors and weapons.  And jump ships were all commercial.  I RPed it that is was a measure to make it harder for a ship to suddenly go pirate.  Any such endeavor would require a multi-ship conspiracy, and therefore ship to ship communications.  Which, while encryption and other methods could conceal, it would not withstand brute force investigation after the fact.

But I went with lots of small ships, which had to specialize because there wasn't the space to generalize.

The range on those is ridiculous, in my opinion.  Military ships should have enough fuel for out and back, not repeated out and back.  Unless you are conducting operations 50 billion km from base, (which is longer than your crew deployment time), you are better off with better performance and bringing commercial tankers or prestaging fuel dumps.  Having a logistics arm means you can get a LOT better speed performance in combat, even if the strategic fleet speeds are limited by your tankers.

I like the Jester concept, and definitely that active res 1 sensor is a GREAT thing to have.  And jump scouts are awesome.  I start with 250 ton designs with a .1 HS active sensor that have the endurance to check every major rock in a system.  But for a combat type scout you will want speed as an option to have more survivability.  But again, if 6,000 km/s is slow for a beam ship, it is ridiculous for a scout ship.  Although I suppose it is a fleet sensor ship, it shouldn't be off on its own.  It is too big to hide, so it has to stay inside a fleet's point defense envelope.
 
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Offline xenoscepter (OP)

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Re: An Early look at my Navy; the core of my Cruiser Groups.
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2019, 03:09:46 AM »
@Michael Sandy

 --- All good stuff. I'll consider that. If you have Ion Tech Railgun Fighters doing 8,000 km/s then these ships are toast at Internal Fusion tech. Could you provide me that fighter design? I like my logistics minimal, and I mean stupid small, but it won't make a difference if my ships are kited into oblivion.  :) I'm going to finish out the full concept before I make a decision to overhaul it or not, as I do have Gauss PD Interceptors making 20,000 Km/s as well as strike fighters making 24,000 km/s to deliver a pair of Size-3 ASMs. My fighter wings are organized into 5 ship squadrons of 250-ton Gauss PD, with an unarmed lead sensor element and four armed combat elements. The Strikefighters are organized into five ship flights, but with all of the elements are interchangeable. I generally prefer slow ships with long range, but it's been proving tough to get a good feel for what would be an effective balance between the two. I have a lot of ships eaten in my games in the meanwhile, and I think I'm learning fast, but at this point I really need to iron out the full fleet concept, doctrine and all before I can begin making meaningful improvements to it.

FYI: I've been watching the SerBeardian tutorials... talk about a fast ship... his stuff makes the Millennium Falcon look like a turd.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2019, 03:22:06 AM by xenoscepter »
 

Iranon

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Re: An Early look at my Navy; the core of my Cruiser Groups.
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2019, 05:04:54 AM »
Tech is all over the place, I assume that's a roleplay choice.

Are you using both maintenance storage bays and damage control systems? That's usually not a good combination unless you use bottom-of-the-barrel components (MSP per engineering bay scales with average cost of components, storage bays give a flat 1000).

Propulsion system looks sane, apart from the thermal reduction which seems wasteful (these ships aren't particularly stealthy). Range seems slightly excessive. My preference would be to offload fuel and jump engine to a commercial hull; 6000km/s is very much achievable.

Don't get the beam weaponry. You aren't pinching pennies, you have capacitor-6, why not make your 15cm lasers fire twice as fast? Why 15cm railguns when you don't have a good match in capacitors? A mix of 10cm railguns and more lasers is probably better at both point defence and fighting.
The Gauss turret on the Intrepid doesn't track fast enough to have a compelling PD advantage over railguns, which are twice as good against slow ships and probably cheaper.

I'd also avoid the electronic hardening, your ships pay a pretty penny on duplicate sensors as it is.
 
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Offline Michael Sandy

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Re: An Early look at my Navy; the core of my Cruiser Groups.
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2019, 06:23:12 AM »
    Snark class Fighter    500 tons     9 Crew     79.6 BP      TCS 10  TH 84  EM 0
    8400 km/s     Armour 1-5     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 3
    Maint Life 0 Years     MSP 0    AFR 100%    IFR 1.4%    1YR 6    5YR 95    Max Repair 10.5 MSP
    Intended Deployment Time: 0.5 months    Spare Berths 3   

    Max Ion Fighter 21 EP Ion Drive (4)    Power 21    Fuel Use 280.76%    Signature 21    Exp 17%
    Fuel Capacity 20 000 Litres    Range 2.6 billion km   (3 days at full power)

    BRRRT 10cm Railgun V1/C3 (1x4)    Range 10 000km     TS: 8400 km/s     Power 3-3     RM 1    ROF 5        1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
    Phalanx II Fire Control S01 32-2000 (FTR) (1)    Max Range: 64 000 km   TS: 8000 km/s     84 69 53 37 22 6 0 0 0 0
    Meson Arc Gas-Cooled Fast Reactor Technology PB-1 (1)     Total Power Output 3.15    Armour 0    Exp 5%

    This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes

That is with composite armor and 2,000 km/s tracking tech, .7 fuel use, and +75% boost.  The fire control is 50 tons.  With better fire control tech, you could save a good bit of space, but I had no sensor scientists at all.  You could save a smidgen of fuel efficiency with size 4 engines, but I decided to be cheap on the research and just research the size one engine, so I could mix and match for my railgun and scout designs.  There is a bit of debate on the utility of single engines vs multiple engines.  With multiple engines, a single hit isn't going to leave a ship stationary.  But, with such small craft, a single point of damage is likely to mission kill it anyway.  Larger engines means there is a chance that a single hit DOESN'T mission kill the ship.

The armor costs .7 HS at that tech, and the power plant also are .7 HS.  So better power tech could mean a smidgen of savings for extra fuel or crew endurance.

The fleet concept is that these escort the strikeforce from the jump point to the enemy base, with a variety of other scout fighter designs finding it, identifying what kind of ships the enemy has, (expendable scouts, a size 1 boosted engine, a .1 HS active sensor, and a small fuel tank.  Cheap and VERY fast).  Something to consider is that the 10,000 km railgun can ONLY defend other task groups that are in the same exact location.  So if you have different speed task groups, you have to remove all movement orders when under fire, and have the escort fighters move to the same location as the fleet they are escorting.
 

Offline xenoscepter (OP)

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Re: An Early look at my Navy; the core of my Cruiser Groups.
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2019, 12:40:02 PM »
@Michael Sandy

 --- Thanks for that, I'll keep this in mind as I move forward.

@Iranon

 --- No, no Maintenance Bays here, just REALLY expensive components. Yes, it has Damage Control. I can't bring myself to lose the E. Hardening, might in fact up the Thermal Reduction to 25%. The firing rates are as they are to allow more weapons to fit with the output of that small-ish reactor, I tried having the lasers and railguns fire every 5 seconds, but it was too much in terms of reactor weight. It literally adds twice the power to it, meaning I'd have to sacrifice capability elsewhere. The Jump Drive is there because it's used for trucking the rest of the group around. The Intrepid doesn't use railguns simply because they need power, and that adds more weight. My Racial Tracking tech is 10,000 km/s w/ 10,000 km/s Turret Gear Tech, so 20,000 km/s triple Gauss turrets are cheap by compare. Can't remember if I armored them or not... if so I'll probably remove the turret armor as I polish up and finalize the designs.
 

Offline xenoscepter (OP)

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Re: An Early look at my Navy; the core of my Cruiser Groups.
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2019, 12:53:48 PM »
 --- These are the rest of the groups components, it's single destroyer and two carriers, to give you a better idea of where I'm going with all this. :)

The Warrior Class Destroyer:

Code: [Select]
Warrior class Destroyer    12,500 tons     386 Crew     5235 BP      TCS 250  TH 360  EM 810
6000 km/s     Armour 4-47     Shields 27-300     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 75     PPV 36
Maint Life 6.21 Years     MSP 5926    AFR 83%    IFR 1.2%    1YR 264    5YR 3960    Max Repair 562.5 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 5 months    Spare Berths 14   

750 EP Internal Fusion Drive (2)    Power 750    Fuel Use 9.74%    Signature 180    Exp 7%
Fuel Capacity 700,000 Litres    Range 103.5 billion km   (199 days at full power)
Epsilon R300/288 Shields (9)   Total Fuel Cost  108 Litres per hour  (2,592 per day)

Particle Beam-9 (4)    Range 320,000km     TS: 10000 km/s     Power 22-12    ROF 10        9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9
Fire Control S02 240-10000 H50 (2)    Max Range: 480,000 km   TS: 10000 km/s     98 96 94 92 90 88 85 83 81 79
Tokamak Fusion Reactor Technology PB-1.5 (1)     Total Power Output 48    Armour 0    Exp 35%

Active Search Sensor MR507-R500 (50%) (1)     GPS 63000     Range 507.1m km    Resolution 500
Active Search Sensor MR253-R125 (50%) (1)     GPS 15750     Range 253.6m km    Resolution 125
Active Search Sensor MR175-R60 (50%) (1)     GPS 7560     Range 175.7m km    Resolution 60

ECCM-4 (2)         ECM 40

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

 --- It serves as the Beam Fire Support of the group. Well armoured, well armed, well-shielded [by fleet's standards anyway] and carrying the biggest "shoot me" signs of the group; the Warrior-Class follows my idea of a Destroyer. That being a ship designed to murder to death anything bigger than itself. Each "basic" cruiser group will have one of these.


The Arcadia Class Carrier:

Code: [Select]
Arcadia class Carrier    12,500 tons     273 Crew     2964 BP      TCS 250  TH 360  EM 270
6000 km/s     Armour 3-47     Shields 9-300     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 25     PPV 12
Maint Life 4.8 Years     MSP 4164    AFR 85%    IFR 1.2%    1YR 297    5YR 4460    Max Repair 562.5 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 5 months    Flight Crew Berths 101   
Hangar Deck Capacity 2500 tons     

750 EP Internal Fusion Drive (2)    Power 750    Fuel Use 9.74%    Signature 180    Exp 7%
Fuel Capacity 1,050,000 Litres    Range 155.2 billion km   (299 days at full power)
Epsilon R300/288 Shields (3)   Total Fuel Cost  36 Litres per hour  (864 per day)

10cm Railgun V6/C3 (4x4)    Range 60,000km     TS: 10000 km/s     Power 3-3     RM 6    ROF 5        1 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S01 120-10000 H50 (2)    Max Range: 240,000 km   TS: 10000 km/s     96 92 88 83 79 75 71 67 62 58
Tokamak Fusion Reactor Technology PB-1.5 (1)     Total Power Output 12    Armour 0    Exp 35%

Active Search Sensor MR32-R1 (50%) (1)     GPS 180     Range 32.4m km    MCR 3.5m km    Resolution 1

Strike Group
2x Valkyrie PVF-3S Scout   Speed: 20000 km/s    Size: 5
8x Valkyrie PVF-3I Interceptor   Speed: 20000 km/s    Size: 5

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

 --- The Fighter Support of the group, the Arcadia provides complementary sensor capabilities alongside Anti-Fighter / Anti-PD in the form of it's fighter group. Four 10cm Railguns comprise the ship's only armament, useful on their own as PD and with 60,000 Km range allowing them to function as Anti-Fighter flyswatters to boot. The "basic" Cruiser Group incorporates two of them.


The Valkyries:

Code: [Select]
Valkyrie PVF-3S class Scout    250 tons     4 Crew     194.5 BP      TCS 5  TH 24  EM 0
20000 km/s     Armour 3-3     Shields 0-0     Sensors 3/4/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 0
Maint Life 0 Years     MSP 0    AFR 50%    IFR 0.7%    1YR 17    5YR 254    Max Repair 100 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 0.125 months    Spare Berths 6   

100 EP Internal Fusion Drive (1)    Power 100    Fuel Use 387.38%    Signature 24    Exp 25%
Fuel Capacity 30,000 Litres    Range 5.6 billion km   (3 days at full power)

Active Search Sensor MR7-R1 (50%) (1)     GPS 44     Range 7.8m km    MCR 846k km    Resolution 1
Thermal Sensor TH0.2-3 (50%) (1)     Sensitivity 3     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  3m km
EM Detection Sensor EM0.2-3.6 (50%) (1)     Sensitivity 3.6     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  3.6m km

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes

 --- This is the sensor element of the squadron, one per four combat ships. Tiny Thermal / Em passives let it serve as a scout in a pinch. Unarmed, but fast and well armoured with three layers worth. Can take a nine point missile, or a 10cm laser to the face and keep on flying.


Code: [Select]
Valkyrie PVF-3I class Interceptor    250 tons     4 Crew     209.1 BP      TCS 5  TH 24  EM 0
20000 km/s     Armour 3-3     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 1.2
Maint Life 0 Years     MSP 0    AFR 50%    IFR 0.7%    1YR 14    5YR 216    Max Repair 100 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 0.125 months    Spare Berths 6   

100 EP Internal Fusion Drive (1)    Power 100    Fuel Use 387.38%    Signature 24    Exp 25%
Fuel Capacity 30,000 Litres    Range 5.6 billion km   (3 days at full power)

Gauss Cannon R4-10 (2x4)    Range 40,000km     TS: 20000 km/s     Accuracy Modifier 10%     RM 4    ROF 5        1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S00.2 60-5000 H50 (FTR) (1)    Max Range: 120,000 km   TS: 20000 km/s     92 83 75 67 58 50 42 33 25 17

Active Search Sensor MR1-R1 (50%) (1)     GPS 8     Range 1.3m km    MCR 141k km    Resolution 1

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes

 --- This is the combat element, four per sensor ship. High speed and three layers of armor function alongside it's integrated sensors to enhance the operational integrity of the squadron. 40,000 km range on it's twin Gauss Cannons allow them to engage enemy fighters and missiles.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2019, 12:57:59 PM by xenoscepter »
 

Offline xenoscepter (OP)

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Re: An Early look at my Navy; the core of my Cruiser Groups.
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2019, 01:06:05 PM »
@Michael Sandy

 --- You mentioned that the Snark-Class Fighters were designed for Fleet Escort duties? I built a corvette for that, I thought I would add it here for comparison.


The Sheriff-Class Corvette:

Code: [Select]
Sheriff class Corvette    3,000 tons     96 Crew     1301 BP      TCS 60  TH 48  EM 0
5000 km/s    JR 1-50     Armour 3-18     Shields 0-0     Sensors 9/9/0/0     Damage Control Rating 33     PPV 6
Maint Life 8.22 Years     MSP 949    AFR 20%    IFR 0.3%    1YR 25    5YR 375    Max Repair 337.5 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 5 months    Spare Berths 6   

J3000(1-50) Military Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 3000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 1
300 EP Internal Fusion Drive (1)    Power 300    Fuel Use 61.49%    Signature 48    Exp 12%
Fuel Capacity 665,000 Litres    Range 64.9 billion km   (150 days at full power)

10cm Railgun V6/C3 (2x4)    Range 60,000km     TS: 10000 km/s     Power 3-3     RM 6    ROF 5        1 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S01 120-10000 H50 (1)    Max Range: 240,000 km   TS: 10000 km/s     96 92 88 83 79 75 71 67 62 58
Stellarator Fusion Reactor Technology PB-1 (1)     Total Power Output 6    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Active Search Sensor MR16-R1 (50%) (1)     GPS 90     Range 16.2m km    MCR 1.8m km    Resolution 1
Active Search Sensor MR125-R60 (50%) (1)     GPS 5400     Range 125.5m km    Resolution 60
Thermal Sensor TH0.5-9 (50%) (1)     Sensitivity 9     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  9m km
EM Detection Sensor EM0.5-9 (50%) (1)     Sensitivity 9     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  9m km

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

 --- Jump-Capable, ridiculous range, doubles as a Commerce Raider. Slightly slower than the main fleet, but I use them for garrison / escort ships, so that isn't really a problem. Their guns could annihilate the Snark-Class and take plenty in kind, but they're so slow that the Snark-Class could choose it's engagements freely.
 

Offline Michael Sandy

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Re: An Early look at my Navy; the core of my Cruiser Groups.
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2019, 10:22:41 PM »
It is a little tricky comparing costs because the Snark has to have a carrier to function, but if I am reading that correctly, you have 8 railgun shots at 5,000 km/s accuracy, for 1300 BP.  The Snark costs 80, the carrier cost probably doubles it or even a bit more, but it has 4 shots at 8,000.  Or only about 20% less shots, for WAY less cost.

Of course, part of the expense is that your corvette is capable of completely independent action.  But I would rather have a large mass of Snarks, with several sensor fighters for redundant sensors, than a mass of Sheriffs, because you would have too much redundancy in sensor costs and jump drives.

Fighter fire controls are a LOT cheaper, and a 240,000 range fire control on a weapon that will most often be firing at 10k mode is a bit excessive.  It is a good fire control, just a mismatch for the platform and role, in my opinion.  Why not see what kind of railgun fighter you could build on similar lines to the Snark at that technology.

I generally have +75% power tech at Ion, +100% at Magneto Plasma, and +150% at internal fusion.  Not sure if you can get to 20,000 km/s on a railgun fighter and have any range or endurance to it.  But a single railgun fighter with 20k speed and tracking would have double the antimissile kill capacity of a Sheriff.  If you can make a 15k fighter fire control, that is quite a respectable speed for IF.

Also, this is a kind of minor thing, but if you really like the cat and mouse scouting game, make sure you only have one active sensor per ship.  You can only turn on or off active sensors on a per ship basis, not a per sensor basis.  So you will often want to maintain your relatively quiet anti-missile sensor while turning off the anti-ship sensor that screams "Here I am!" to everybody in the system.
 
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Iranon

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Re: An Early look at my Navy; the core of my Cruiser Groups.
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2019, 03:29:11 AM »
Regarding the power situation:
Holding back on capacitor for space reasons makes little sense to me in this case. That's fine if projected use is "kill something with an overwhelming broadside, withdraw or hope the fight is over, repeat". Or when you're using cheap components to tank hits as much as to fight. Neither seems to apply here.
For continuous output, you could keep the power as it is and field fewer weapons, saving space.

Regarding the Gauss turrets:
If your basic fire control tracking speed is 10000km/s, your railguns will track at that even if your ship is slower. A 3HS railgun tracking at 10000km/s will do just as well as a 3HS Gauss cannon tracking at 20000km/s after the 50% accuracy reduction, power for the railgun should take up less space than the turret gear, you also need a less sophisticated fire control and the railgun is twice as strong in a knife fight.
Gauss would give you an advantage if tracking at 40000km/s, assuming you're facing missiles that fast.



Regarding escorts vessels:
Final fire point defence weapons don't need range. As a cost-efficient way to deal with multiple salvos, I like having another short-ranged fire control and some V1 railguns, this also means the main BFC isn't a single point of failure. Sheriff seems a bit under-armed for that expensive BFC.

Fast railgun fighters are usually not very efficient as PD assets for their cost and logistics burden, but they have some tactical advantages. They can run down spent missile ships or isolated/crippled enemies, come in useful when facing many small salvos rather than a few big ones, and can be thrown into a melee hoping that overkill will keep the attrition reasonable (ideally with microwave variants suppressing the enemy).
 

Offline Michael Sandy

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Re: An Early look at my Navy; the core of my Cruiser Groups.
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2019, 01:50:28 AM »
Fast railgun fighters have a couple other advantages, assuming you have planetary PDC carriers to store them:

In a missile duel, they will generally be too small for the enemy to target.  The enemy will likely fire their anti-ship missiles at ships, meaning you usually do not need to armor your railgun fighters.  One trick is to escort a frigate with your railgun fighters.  If you are not sure you can shoot down all the enemy missiles, and you do not know the range of their envelope, you can prompt the enemy to fire at the 3,000 ton target, but your 500 ton fighters will survive, no matter what.  The enemy will either massively waste missiles in excess of needed to kill the frigate, or fire a 'reasonable' number, allowing you to whittle down their missile stocks.

You can also use railgun fighters to escort attacking bombers.  And while an enemy may have some res 10 missile fire controls, they generally do not have them on all of their missile ships.  So a railgun fighter escort can ensure your missile bombers get in range to launch with impugnity.  As long as they can launch outside of enemy AMM range, they are golden.

You can have them EARLY with truly minimal tech expenditure.  Also, put a couple on your survey support carrier, and you have something that can take out enemy survey craft and potentially their fast scouts.

A caveat to consider thought is that they pretty much have to be on top of their escorts.  it is therefore likely to be necessary to remove the movement orders for the escorted ships while missiles are detected.  Your ships will be considered to be maneuvering at their max speed, while not actually moving.
 

Offline Jorgen_CAB

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Re: An Early look at my Navy; the core of my Cruiser Groups.
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2019, 08:34:21 AM »
I think it all comes down to if you fight against the AI or a human opponent designed fleets, more or less.

In most of my campaigns there are secondary batteries of maybee 15cm turreted lasers that act as both anti-missile and anti-fighter/FAC deterrent and especially built anti-fighter/FAC missiles. You don't need many turreted 15cm guns to effectively destroy a large number of fighters very quickly.

The biggest problem with fighters and FAC is their inability to use effective armour and/or shields. This generally make them quite vulnerable at beam range, even at relatively long ranges. Even AMM missiles can quite cost effectively engage most fighters.


To give some critique to the fleet in general I think it overall is interesting and seem quite fun to play with. The only thing that worries me is the general lack of offensive firepower in relation to the resources required to build an maintain it. I feel that it in general have too little teeth. Overall I also think that the amount of armour and shields is also lacking. If you want little armour/shields you usually will have to weight it up with decent offensive power to compensate.