Author Topic: Missile range  (Read 2693 times)

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Offline Norm49 (OP)

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Missile range
« on: May 17, 2020, 01:45:36 PM »
Hi,

I know one of the change in aurora c# is shorter missile range but it wonder hoe much rage we are talking about. I never dissing a missile before now I'm a looking for a medium range low damage missile. What would be consider a sort / medium / long range missile? Regardless of the hit chance and missile size.

Thanks
 

Offline consiefe

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Re: Missile range
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2020, 02:20:14 PM »
Range is mostly your decision of how much you want to sacrifice other things like warhead, agility, sensors etc. To me med range is like 25-50m depending of the purpose of the missile. An AMM with attacking purpose as in swarm missile doctrine can be effective even with 4-5m range.
 

Offline Norm49 (OP)

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Re: Missile range
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2020, 02:53:29 PM »
I was happy with my medium range 1.6m i was far form it  ;D i will re-dissing it to have something more useful. I pass 30 min on the fist but i was able learn how it work. Now i know what to do and it will go much faster.

One other question can i make a warhead smaller then 1 like 0.5 to destroy fighter and missile a short range?
 

Offline consiefe

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Re: Missile range
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2020, 02:58:10 PM »
Minimum warhead you can put on a missile to get 1 dmg is 0.125 MSP. And 1 damage is enough for any missiles. For fighters it works too but you might need 2 of them.
 

Offline SpikeTheHobbitMage

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Re: Missile range
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2020, 03:02:05 PM »
Minimum warhead you can put on a missile to get 1 dmg is 0.125 MSP. And 1 damage is enough for any missiles. For fighters it works too but you might need 2 of them.
How many MSP you need to get 1 damage depends on your tech level.  1 is the minimum possible damage as fractional damage isn't allowed.  Missiles with damage that is a perfect square (1, 4, 9, etc) have the best armour penetration.  What is the right amount of damage depends on the target.
 

Online Pedroig

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Re: Missile range
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2020, 03:04:18 PM »
Generally I consider short range <5m km medium range <50m km and long range beyond that.  Of course, I also do crazy stuff and launch missiles from a half a system away, so XL would be +1b km....
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Offline consiefe

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Re: Missile range
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2020, 03:20:49 PM »
Minimum warhead you can put on a missile to get 1 dmg is 0.125 MSP. And 1 damage is enough for any missiles. For fighters it works too but you might need 2 of them.
How many MSP you need to get 1 damage depends on your tech level.  1 is the minimum possible damage as fractional damage isn't allowed.  Missiles with damage that is a perfect square (1, 4, 9, etc) have the best armour penetration.  What is the right amount of damage depends on the target.

Thanks for correction. I think in C#, missiles don't have armor so they all take 1 dmg to die.
 

Offline Father Tim

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Re: Missile range
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2020, 05:22:46 PM »
Hi,

I know one of the change in aurora c# is shorter missile range but it wonder hoe much rage we are talking about. I never dissing a missile before now I'm a looking for a medium range low damage missile. What would be consider a sort / medium / long range missile? Regardless of the hit chance and missile size.

Thanks


What would I consider a short / medium / long range missile?

Short:  half the range of my long-range beam weapons
Medium:  same range as my long-range beam weapons
Long:  double the range of my long-range beam weapons

Just like a torpedo should be.  Maybe someday we'll have some insane 'Long Lance' torpedo with triple the range of a regular long-range torpedo.
 

Offline Jorgen_CAB

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Re: Missile range
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2020, 05:57:19 PM »
You wil probably get as many answer to this question as there are people to answer it... to me that is a good thing.

First of it is a technology issue and second of all it is all about context. If you experienced that launching a missile at around 70mkm you can strike the enemy without retaliation then that should be your long range missils or perhaps a bit more for safety... what is the point with sacrificing speed or warhead to get a better range if you don't need it?!?

The same thing is true for the size of the missiles you use... it always is a trade off between how many missiles you can attack with at what range and with how much electronics etc...

To answer the question more precisely I generally have three missile types in my arsenal. A short range torpedo simply made to engage at very close range, often at beam range depending on the type but they usually have a few million km of range and of mid size. The next is medium ranged missiles that are mainly for escort ships in use as self defence when deployed as patrol or recon groups, this can also be the type of missile you launch from fighters and missile boats etc.. A medium distance are usually depending on the sensor technology and what active and fire-controls fit on smaller ships, that sets the range... could be perhaps 30-50mkm or so... but really it depends allot on external factors too. The third type of missile would be a long range missile, often a bit larger used on dedicated missile cruisers... the hole point of these missile is that it can engage with enough range and enough speed to either hit outside the enemy range or before enemy missiles with good speed (or preferable both).

Missile warfare is often won by the one that fire first or who have the fastest missiles if range is roughly the same, at least if both sides have the capacity to overwhelm the other sides defences. If I have 100 size 8 missile with a range of 100mkm at a speed of 30.000km and the enemy has 133 size 6 with a speed of 28.000km/s then that speed difference can be very important as my missiles will strike first even if I have less missiles overall. There often are an over reliance or focus on these forums on number of missiles alone. If I bring enough glass cannons to the field then the one with the longest range and speed always will win as neither side have any defences at that point, not that I would advice for that strategy as there will always be someone out there with a bigger gun than yours... ;)

If you are already strong enough to wade through and knock out all enemy missiles to comfortably fire short range missiles and knock them out you certainly could have done the same thing from beyond their range too most likely or you just have such a vastly bigger fleet than they have it does not matter what you do... it is when two forces are more closely matched that it matter allot how your missiles perform over that of you opponents missiles.

If you just create missiles intending to fight an imaginary friend you probably will fail anyway and you will need to commit way more resources to do the job than what you initially thought you would or simply waste resources on complete overkill of rudimentary enemy forces.

So... in my opinion taking about typical ranges without any context really does not tell you anything useful from a strategic point of view.
 
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Offline SpikeTheHobbitMage

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Re: Missile range
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2020, 06:02:14 PM »
Minimum warhead you can put on a missile to get 1 dmg is 0.125 MSP. And 1 damage is enough for any missiles. For fighters it works too but you might need 2 of them.
How many MSP you need to get 1 damage depends on your tech level.  1 is the minimum possible damage as fractional damage isn't allowed.  Missiles with damage that is a perfect square (1, 4, 9, etc) have the best armour penetration.  What is the right amount of damage depends on the target.

Thanks for correction. I think in C#, missiles don't have armor so they all take 1 dmg to die.
Correct.

Hi,

I know one of the change in aurora c# is shorter missile range but it wonder hoe much rage we are talking about. I never dissing a missile before now I'm a looking for a medium range low damage missile. What would be consider a sort / medium / long range missile? Regardless of the hit chance and missile size.

Thanks


What would I consider a short / medium / long range missile?

Short:  half the range of my long-range beam weapons
Medium:  same range as my long-range beam weapons
Long:  double the range of my long-range beam weapons

Just like a torpedo should be.  Maybe someday we'll have some insane 'Long Lance' torpedo with triple the range of a regular long-range torpedo.
I guess that explains your low opinion of missiles.  :o

I consider 2-3m km to be a point defence missile.  10-15m is a medium range fighter based missile, and 30m+ is a long ranged ship-to-ship missile.  Those numbers increase at higher tech levels.

You wil probably get as many answer to this question as there are people to answer it... to me that is a good thing.
Quoted for truth.  :)
« Last Edit: May 17, 2020, 06:09:34 PM by SpikeTheHobbitMage »
 

Offline Norm49 (OP)

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Re: Missile range
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2020, 06:10:44 PM »
Ok so now that think more about the gear around the missile and the context i plan on using it I was reading about fire control. So one fire control can control one salvo so I should not waste space with system that reload faster. Lest say i have 2 fire control and 4 launcher. I fist launch 2 salvo of 2 missiles. 30 seconds after 4 other missiles are ready but not fire control are available so my ship wont fire? Did i get that one right?
 

Offline SpikeTheHobbitMage

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Re: Missile range
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2020, 06:15:35 PM »
Ok so now that think more about the gear around the missile and the context i plan on using it I was reading about fire control. So one fire control can control one salvo so I should not waste space with system that reload faster. Lest say i have 2 fire control and 4 launcher. I fist launch 2 salvo of 2 missiles. 30 seconds after 4 other missiles are ready but not fire control are available so my ship wont fire? Did i get that one right?
An MFC can fire one salvo per tick but there is no limit on how many salvos it can control at once.  If you have one MFC connected to a bank of 10 5-second launchers and the target is 50s away, then you can have 100 missiles in flight at once under that single controller.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2020, 06:18:39 PM by SpikeTheHobbitMage »
 
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Offline Father Tim

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Re: Missile range
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2020, 06:56:03 PM »
I guess that explains your low opinion of missiles.  :o


No, my low opinion of missiles comes from how incredibly boring I find the paradigm of "see the enemy first, fire a huge swarm of missiles, watch the enemy blow up, retreat & repeat as necessary" to be.

And also from the complete lack of Aurora-style missile mechanics in the kinds of fiction (and history) I want to roleplay.  Massive missile swarsm and rank upon rank of massed point defense guns are fine in BattleStar Galactica, but not in Star Wars or Black Fleet or Battle Beyond the Stars or Firefly/Serenity or Age of Sail or Space:1889 or Spelljammer.  Sometimes I want no missiles, and sometimes I want great war "torpedoes in the water!"
 

Offline Jorgen_CAB

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Re: Missile range
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2020, 07:21:52 PM »
I guess that explains your low opinion of missiles.  :o


No, my low opinion of missiles comes from how incredibly boring I find the paradigm of "see the enemy first, fire a huge swarm of missiles, watch the enemy blow up, retreat & repeat as necessary" to be.

And also from the complete lack of Aurora-style missile mechanics in the kinds of fiction (and history) I want to roleplay.  Massive missile swarsm and rank upon rank of massed point defense guns are fine in BattleStar Galactica, but not in Star Wars or Black Fleet or Battle Beyond the Stars or Firefly/Serenity or Age of Sail or Space:1889 or Spelljammer.  Sometimes I want no missiles, and sometimes I want great war "torpedoes in the water!"

But then again you tell the story you want to tell in the game... NPR rarely use mass launched box launched missile swarms from huge fleets anyway so from that point if view it does not really matter.

Also... using glasshammer fleets certainly works against NPRs but is VERY dangerous against a more dynamic smart enemy as such a fleet could be destroyed with but a fraction of their strength if their missiles happen to be slower or less range. So when you see people who bring these kinds of weapons you need to take it for what it is... pure theory in a very limited set of environments. You can even build a very good beam fleet to defeat that if you anticipate it for some reason... but it will not happen against the NPR anyway. If you are playing several factions yourself then you also guide what doctrines are used in the game too.

You are the storyteller of your game so you decide how it will be played.

people can show what is their preferred play-style in their campaigns. Personally I like to balance the fleets and if I play multiple factions try out a few different doctrines based on their needs, Intel and capabilities. Missiles for example is hugely expensive... even in peace you need to constantly produce missiles and replace them and you need a healthy ordnance industry and logistics organisation ready to provide if there is a need for it. In general I have found that missiles are best for space domination when you can outnumber the enemy in firepower in some form. But planets and jump point are far easier to take and hold using powerful beam fleets because a point in space can't escape and missiles are almost useless from a resource perspective as anti-missile defences always are cheaper than offensive missiles by quite the margin.
 
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