Author Topic: Scroll bars and installation  (Read 3583 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Magnnus (OP)

  • Petty Officer
  • **
  • M
  • Posts: 23
Scroll bars and installation
« on: January 11, 2010, 12:17:55 AM »
I actually had no problems with any of this myself but I recently started a topic for this game at the Bay12games forum; it seems that a MAJORITY of the people interested can't play this game because of low resolution screens. It seems to actually be a catastrophic issue from the amount of complaints I've seen in that thread (id say at least 3 out of 7 pages of posts on that issue alone). There are also a large number of complaints about the installer. Namely people are confused about the 'yes to not override dlls' and having to unzip the AuroraUpdate475.zip file into the aurora folder after installation; this should really be done during installation. Many people were also worried about the installer because it modifies system32. There is also the missing msstdfmt.dll error on 64 bit computers; there is already a fix for this but building it in would be better. Some people are even reporting problems with their computer immediately after installing this game; this seems to be on Vista and Windows 7. I actually feel bad because it seems a lot of potential players aren't getting the chance to enjoy this game.
 

Offline lastverb

  • Warrant Officer, Class 2
  • ****
  • l
  • Posts: 52
Re: Scroll bars and installation
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2010, 05:15:19 AM »
agree, especialy with scroll bars - this new stupid-o-mania called I WANT HD!, BUT I DONT KNOW WHAT THAT MEAN, there aren't any new 4:3 monitors and most of hd ones have only 900-1050px height, which is not enough for aurora, for 1050 one changing position of bottom buttons to left/right of the screen would be enough, but not for 900px
 

Offline Steve Walmsley

  • Aurora Designer
  • Star Marshal
  • S
  • Posts: 11678
  • Thanked: 20471 times
Re: Scroll bars and installation
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2010, 05:16:46 AM »
Quote from: "Magnnus"
I actually had no problems with any of this myself but I recently started a topic for this game at the Bay12games forum; it seems that a MAJORITY of the people interested can't play this game because of low resolution screens. It seems to actually be a catastrophic issue from the amount of complaints I've seen in that thread (id say at least 3 out of 7 pages of posts on that issue alone). There are also a large number of complaints about the installer. Namely people are confused about the 'yes to not override dlls' and having to unzip the AuroraUpdate475.zip file into the aurora folder after installation; this should really be done during installation. Many people were also worried about the installer because it modifies system32. There is also the missing msstdfmt.dll error on 64 bit computers; there is already a fix for this but building it in would be better. Some people are even reporting problems with their computer immediately after installing this game; this seems to be on Vista and Windows 7. I actually feel bad because it seems a lot of potential players aren't getting the chance to enjoy this game.
I read through the thread. Thanks for trying to promote Aurora!

Rather than trying to post responses on there, I'll try to cover the issues mentioned in this reply. Before I start though, people who have problems would be much better posting their issues on here where there are a lot of experienced players who can help them. I know some people just like to complain in forums but those who want to learn would get helpful answers to their questions on the Aurora forum. The installation program was written by Microsoft and is the standard installer included with Visual Studio so it shouldn't be doing anything strange to Windows. To create the install program I just list which Aurora program files are included. Microsoft's installer decides which DLLs are included. Many of the DLLs in the installer will be out of date because this is an old language, which is why the installer recommends keeping the newer version. If anyone deletes the latest version of a DLL in favour of an out of date one then I imagine there is a good chance they are going to have problems elsewhere in their system. This isn't Aurora-specific though as I am encounter the "Keep Latest DLL?" question in many install programs. For step 3, I am not sure why unzipping a specified file into a specified directory and answering yes to the only two override questions is proving so troublesome.

With regard to install issues on Vista and Windows7. I don't use those operating systems and I hope I won't be held responsible if Microsoft don't make their operating systems more backwardly compatible. However, the common problems and solutions have been posted on here by very helpful members of this forum so I would recommend reading those.

Anyone receiving the "3061 error from the DAO database: too few parameters, expecting 1" error, either has mismatched versions of the database and program, which means they may not have followed the installation instructions and should uninstall and re-install, or they have the decimal separator issue, in which case they need to change that in their regional setting.

To those who won't play because they refuse to spend a few seconds changing their regional settings before and after playing. That is entirely up to them. To be blunt, its a free game and I am unaffected by whether they play or not.

To the person who maintains it won't run on XP64, my development machine is XP64.

Yes, it is complex and difficult to learn. I make no apologies for that. At least 95% of people are not going to like the game or won't be prepared to make the effort to learn it. Aurora is designed to cater to the other 5%. There is a new v4.77 tutorial, which is very long and doesn't even cover 10% of the game yet. That is still your best bet for learning Aurora through. Also ask questions on here where experienced players can help.

The most common issue seems to be screen resolution. Sorry, but I won't be changing the resolution to a smaller one, although I do get asked about this quite often. Aurora has a lot of information and to reduce the resolution I would have to break it up into a larger number of smaller windows. I run a triple-screen system with 1920x1200 on each monitor so if Aurora had smaller windows they would look too small on my own system. I have tried scrollbars, such as on the Task Group Window, and resizable windows but it is a lot of work for each window and it's worth bearing in mind the priority for new features in Aurora is often dependent on my own level of enthusiam for each change. Perhaps if one day I did attempt to sell a future version then I would obviously look at such options to make the game available to a greater proportion of those who wished to play it. As it is free though, I would hope people don't judge me too harshly for concentrating on the more fun aspects of programming this game. With the amazingly low price of monitors these days then anyone who really wants to play could probably get a higher resolution monitor for not much more than they would pay for a new PC game.

Aurora is a FREE game, which I develop for my own use and make available for others to play if they want to. I enjoy the community aspects of Aurora very much but this isn't a commercial game. I will occasionally promote the existence of the game, such as the recent AAR in the Wargamer forum, but I am not trying to persuade people to play it or even to like it, although I am very happy to help those who want to learn. I don't have any problems with those who think it is a terrible, over-complex, badly programmed game with dreadful graphics and I am not going to try and 'defend' Aurora. As I said, it wil not appeal to the vast majority of people. If anyone has a specific suggestion to improve Aurora, rather than more general criticism, then please post it in the Suggestions forum. Many of the game's best features have come from player suggestions.

Finally, I don't live in London (you couldn't pay me to), I live in Lancashire, in the North-west of England.

Steve
 

Offline Steve Walmsley

  • Aurora Designer
  • Star Marshal
  • S
  • Posts: 11678
  • Thanked: 20471 times
Re: Scroll bars and installation
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2010, 05:26:47 AM »
Quote from: "lastverb"
agree, especialy with scroll bars - this new stupid-o-mania called I WANT HD!, BUT I DONT KNOW WHAT THAT MEAN, there aren't any new 4:3 monitors and most of hd ones have only 900-1050px height, which is not enough for aurora, for 1050 one changing position of bottom buttons to left/right of the screen would be enough, but not for 900px
An interesting point about 4:3 vs 16:9. I guess what might be possible is to change the screens so that they are wider but not as high, changing the required resolution to 1440x900. That is about the same screen area as 1280x1024. Although that would then screw the people who are using 4:3 monitors and even that solution would require a lot of work.

Steve
 

Offline Shinanygnz

  • Lieutenant
  • *******
  • S
  • Posts: 194
  • Thanked: 6 times
Re: Scroll bars and installation
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2010, 11:48:13 AM »
The rather spiffing new monitor I just bought is 1920x1080, so wider would be fine by me  :D

I've just upgraded from XP Pro 32 bit to Windows 7 64 bit and I'm having no problems.  However, when I ran the install I did get the usual slew of "keep your newer file" popups.  As you say, so what, happens loads.  I installed to D:\Games\Aurora so have no evil UAC problems with the Program Files area for me.  It might be worth changing the default installation location to C:\Aurora next time you package up the installer.
One oddity I did come across was even though the install ran, it didn't create any of the Images, Flags, etc sub-folders.  No biggie, as I copied over my old install folder from a backup.
I haven't encountered the dll issue that the fix is posted for (but know where to go if I do), but it might well have installed the required dll with something else.

Glad to see the people moaning about a free thing aren't getting you down.  Mind you, I always find your ripostes when someone does wind you up most entertaining.   You have a fine turn of phrase sir.    :lol:

Stephen
 

Offline waresky

  • Registered
  • Vice Admiral
  • **********
  • Posts: 1486
  • Thanked: 8 times
  • Alpine Mountaineer..ohh Yeah!
Re: Scroll bars and installation
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2010, 01:03:07 PM »
Am love this game.And for this FREE game am freely buy another monitor:))))))

And play with 2 monitors...Ahhhhh...at last awesome,relax and perfect for Aurora.

So..Good Work Steve.

Go ahead and play and WRITE up another Campaign chapter!!!

^_*

And for those who hate this "terrible,out-of-date,program"...am send a simple word: Amen:D
 

Offline Magnnus (OP)

  • Petty Officer
  • **
  • M
  • Posts: 23
Re: Scroll bars and installation
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2010, 02:51:35 PM »
I would like to apologize for the way some members of that community were acting; I found they to be very irritating and disrespectful as well. However the majority of that community is very mature and respectful. I only wanted to convey their concerns to the right community, but I understand your stance and don't fault you for it; I'm also sure most of them will understand as well.
 

Offline x2yzh9

  • Chief Petty Officer
  • ***
  • x
  • Posts: 39
Re: Scroll bars and installation
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2010, 03:12:14 PM »
Quote from: "Magnnus"
I would like to apologize for the way some members of that community were acting; I found they to be very irritating and disrespectful as well. However the majority of that community is very mature and respectful. I only wanted to convey their concerns to the right community, but I understand your stance and don't fault you for it; I'm also sure most of them will understand as well.
I agree, i'm part of the community there as well on B12. Magnnus you'll no doubt recognize my username.
 

Offline Magnnus (OP)

  • Petty Officer
  • **
  • M
  • Posts: 23
Re: Scroll bars and installation
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2010, 04:26:58 PM »
Quote from: "x2yzh9"
Quote from: "Magnnus"
I would like to apologize for the way some members of that community were acting; I found they to be very irritating and disrespectful as well. However the majority of that community is very mature and respectful. I only wanted to convey their concerns to the right community, but I understand your stance and don't fault you for it; I'm also sure most of them will understand as well.
I agree, i'm part of the community there as well on B12. Magnnus you'll no doubt recognize my username.

Of course; I'm glad to see I attracted at least a few people. All I really wanted was to expand the community a little more.
 

Offline mrwigggles

  • Sub-Lieutenant
  • ******
  • Posts: 138
  • Thanked: 1 times
Re: Scroll bars and installation
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2010, 05:13:44 PM »
I find the offered solution of getting a new monitor to be silly with the b12'er issue, as it was also in relation to laptops, which can't exactly get a larger monitor for.

But yea, if there was going to be a community that was going to strive through the learning curve it would be those that play Dwarf Fortress, and fervor over its new coming added complexity and issues with the eventual new release. (When ever it may come...)

But yea some of the poster in the forum were quite indigent, one member does spring readily to mind.

-Nother B12 Forum Member
 

Offline RandomUser

  • Able Ordinary Rate
  • R
  • Posts: 1
Re: Scroll bars and installation
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2010, 06:12:31 PM »
Quote from: "Steve Walmsley"
I have tried scrollbars, such as on the Task Group Window, and resizable windows but it is a lot of work for each window and it's worth bearing in mind the priority for new features in Aurora is often dependent on my own level of enthusiam for each change.

Looking at Aurora, it looks very much like a game I'd love dearly, but for the foreseeable future I'm limited to laptops, and the only external monitor I have is 1440x900.

Having said this, I certainly do not protest you choosing not to expend time on this if you don't see it as being time well spent, though I'd like to think your design would be such that adding scrollbars would be something done once rather than in every instance a window is created. If it's not, then I actually emphatically agree that the "simple, easy" solution of adding scrollbars would be neither, and would in fact argue against you wasting your time on doing so, even though it ensures that I'll not be able to play Aurora any time soon (if ever).  :cry:
 

Offline sloanjh

  • Global Moderator
  • Admiral of the Fleet
  • *****
  • Posts: 2805
  • Thanked: 112 times
  • 2020 Supporter 2020 Supporter : Donate for 2020
    2021 Supporter 2021 Supporter : Donate for 2021
Re: Scroll bars and installation
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2010, 08:20:19 PM »
Quote from: "Steve Walmsley"
Although that would then screw the people who are using 4:3 monitors and even that solution would require a lot of work.

Like me :-)

John
 

Offline sloanjh

  • Global Moderator
  • Admiral of the Fleet
  • *****
  • Posts: 2805
  • Thanked: 112 times
  • 2020 Supporter 2020 Supporter : Donate for 2020
    2021 Supporter 2021 Supporter : Donate for 2021
Re: Scroll bars and installation
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2010, 08:30:45 PM »
Quote from: "RandomUser"
Quote from: "Steve Walmsley"
I have tried scrollbars, such as on the Task Group Window, and resizable windows but it is a lot of work for each window and it's worth bearing in mind the priority for new features in Aurora is often dependent on my own level of enthusiam for each change.

Looking at Aurora, it looks very much like a game I'd love dearly, but for the foreseeable future I'm limited to laptops, and the only external monitor I have is 1440x900.

Having said this, I certainly do not protest you choosing not to expend time on this if you don't see it as being time well spent, though I'd like to think your design would be such that adding scrollbars would be something done once rather than in every instance a window is created. If it's not, then I actually emphatically agree that the "simple, easy" solution of adding scrollbars would be neither, and would in fact argue against you wasting your time on doing so, even though it ensures that I'll not be able to play Aurora any time soon (if ever).  :-)  My recollection is that during one of the previous rounds of this discussion, someone posted a method to give the entire desktop more (virtual) real estate and have it scroll.  I don't remember where it was offhand, but some judicious searching in the forum ought to turn it up.

ERIK/STEVE - I think this is the point where "we" need to introduce an FAQ board.  The screen resolution issue should be stickied as the top post within it - that way we'd only have to dig this up one more time.  "Why does Aurora stop when I didn't ask it to" might be another one, with my post that Steve found useful as part of the explanation.

John
 

Offline Erik L

  • Administrator
  • Admiral of the Fleet
  • *****
  • Posts: 5657
  • Thanked: 372 times
  • Forum Admin
  • Discord Username: icehawke
  • 2020 Supporter 2020 Supporter : Donate for 2020
    2022 Supporter 2022 Supporter : Donate for 2022
    Gold Supporter Gold Supporter : Support the forums with a Gold subscription
    2021 Supporter 2021 Supporter : Donate for 2021
Re: Scroll bars and installation
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2010, 09:25:37 PM »
Quote from: "sloanjh"
ERIK/STEVE - I think this is the point where "we" need to introduce an FAQ board.  The screen resolution issue should be stickied as the top post within it - that way we'd only have to dig this up one more time.  "Why does Aurora stop when I didn't ask it to" might be another one, with my post that Steve found useful as part of the explanation.

John

I beleive it is listed in the Tutorial for system requirements, as well as the system requirements global announcement :)

Offline Steve Walmsley

  • Aurora Designer
  • Star Marshal
  • S
  • Posts: 11678
  • Thanked: 20471 times
Re: Scroll bars and installation
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2010, 09:36:03 PM »
Quote from: "mrwigggles"
I find the offered solution of getting a new monitor to be silly with the b12'er issue, as it was also in relation to laptops, which can't exactly get a larger monitor for.
You can plug a larger monitor into almost all laptops. I used to do this all the time. I also had a docking station for the laptop with separate keyboard, mouse and monitor.

Steve